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    Diclofensine 
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    Here's another new one for you guys. Triple reuptake inhibitor, purportedly relatively equal inhibition of 5HT/DA/NE. Supposedly few side effects and effective as an antidepressant. Should be getting TR's relativley soon I imagine

    And its a tetrahydroisoquinoline. First time i think i've found one of these available...
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    #2
    Hmm... I'm not exactly sure how I feel about this one just yet. gonna wait til some nice reports come out.
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    yeah, i'm a bit curious as well. I'm unsure as to the recreational dosage. When it was studied in the 80s 25mg was a typical dosage and it was mostly devoid of peripheral effects. I imagine a recreational dose would be somewhat larger, but as for how much, I dunno.
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    #4
    Larger than 25mg? Doesn't seem like too potent of a drug
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    well a 25mg dose of MDMA wouldn't be effective at all, and mescaline requires a dose of +200mg for decent effect. I would guess 50-75mg would be in the recreational range, give or take a couple dozen milligrams. Apparently it was dropped from testing as a an anti-depressant due to abuse potential. It seems so arbitrary when they drop a drug like this for abuse potential, then somehow come to the conclusion that things like suboxone are ok to give to drug addicts...
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    #6
    Yeah the moment I hit submit I thought "well that was stupid to say, it takes 100mg to roll..." lol
    I completely agree with you here, of course governments to all kinds of stupid things to attemp to have control of people and things. Even though it makes no sense as to why MDMA is illegal and Codeine, xanax, etc. are perfectly legal, regardless of how much they get abused.
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    #7
    honestly it makes a bit of sense if you look at it from their perspective-- MDMA (and mdma analogues) have done more damage to people than codeine has, as well as xanax. And although the therapeutic value of MDMA may be good (though I think others such as mescaline would be better), there are few people who use it that way, and there are many who use xanax the way it should.
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourtman View Post
    honestly it makes a bit of sense if you look at it from their perspective-- MDMA (and mdma analogues) have done more damage to people than codeine has, as well as xanax.
    I strongly disagree. Look at the usage & mortality stats for things like codeine and alprazolam. The latter is prescribed to literally millions of people in the U.S., relatively few of whom need it, its highly addictive, and there is no current effective withdrawal treatment. Orders of magnitude more lives are ruined by things like opiates(oids) and benzos than are by MDMA. Not that MDMA is completely safe or anything, but at the very least it has a pretty negligible addiction profile compared to the two drugs you mentioned.
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    #9
    I agree with any major dude here. MDMA is nowhere near as bad as a lot of legal drugs given to millions every day. MDMA doesn't have a lot of harmful effects until you start taking a lot of it, but of course what drug doesn't? by MDMA here I of course mean straight MDMA, not beans or combining it with any drug.

    Watch the program Ecstasy Rising. You'll understand. The government over-hyped MDMA to an extreme amount, going as far as publishing fake results about MDMA causing holes in the brain etc.

    DO NOT BELIEVE PROPAGANDA

    P.S. Anxiety is psychological, nobody needs things like xanax. and very very few actually have problems with anxiety, most trick themselves into believing they do. I will bet money that more people abuse and use xanax for recreation than people who even THINK they need it.
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    #10
    Is this one structurally similar to any currently illegal substances ie: would it be considered an analogue or is it safe to go ahead and import a sample?
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    this looks pretty novel in terms of structure, I don't think any THIQ's are illegal so it should be fine, might want to have a look at the drug legislation where you live. Doesn't appear to be similar to anything in the U.S. C.S.A.
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybion View Post
    I agree with any major dude here. MDMA is nowhere near as bad as a lot of legal drugs given to millions every day. MDMA doesn't have a lot of harmful effects until you start taking a lot of it, but of course what drug doesn't? by MDMA here I of course mean straight MDMA, not beans or combining it with any drug.

    Watch the program Ecstasy Rising. You'll understand. The government over-hyped MDMA to an extreme amount, going as far as publishing fake results about MDMA causing holes in the brain etc.

    DO NOT BELIEVE PROPAGANDA

    P.S. Anxiety is psychological, nobody needs things like xanax. and very very few actually have problems with anxiety, most trick themselves into believing they do. I will bet money that more people abuse and use xanax for recreation than people who even THINK they need it.
    I have seen ecstasy rising, and I've been in your exact position before. Both sides got it wrong. MDMA is very bad for you, at least in my experiance. Even one dose dose you signifigent damage (imho). I'm not speaking out of propaganda, but out of personal experiance.

    Also, regarding anxiety. Most anxiety is psychological, but there are definitly some neurological cases. Such as MDMA abuse and the chemical imbalances. There's some anxiety you can not beat with thought processes.
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    anxiety is a very vague term used more or less to sell pills. Benzodiazepines work well for short term anxiety, but should not be a long term plan. Same goes for booze... Say your house burns down or something, a weeks worth of benzos, possibly less, would be perfectly appropriate.

    Long term anxiety is likely some sort of maladaptive feedback loop which i'll spare the technical details of, but there currently isn't any reliable medicinal treatment for it that doesn't cause addiction. The most extreme form of chronic anxiety, PTSD, currently has no widely used effective therapy either. Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy (CBT) is somewhat effective, but extremely unpleasant and can do more damage if it is not effective or the patient doesn't stick with it. Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing (EMDR) is also somewhat effective and I'm anxious to see more research on it, but interestingly enough MDMA therapy seems to be among, if not, the most promising of therapies. Granted it only uses 4-6 doses a year, but that's really about all one should take anyway.

    You say you know from personal experience that every dose does damage? Have you had any tests done to confirm this or does it just feel that way? Either way I'm sorry for your health issues, but pure MDMA in reasonable doses no more than once every 8 weeks or so shouldn't really do any appreciable damage. Its entirely possible you had some combination of all but unstudied pipazerines and god knows what else if you bought pressed pills, and even given the relative safety of MDMA in a controlled setting, idiosyncratic responses are possible and will likely occur at some point. Furthermore, every drug is a risk/benefit type of situation, whether licit or otherwise.

    I've seen much more problems in peoples lives arise from benzo & opiate usage than I have from MDMA, in fact out of the many many people i've known that have taken MDMA, I can only think of 3 that have had some issue with it, and one of those was a very chronic user for an extended period.
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourtman View Post
    honestly it makes a bit of sense if you look at it from their perspective-- MDMA (and mdma analogues) have done more damage to people than codeine has, as well as xanax. And although the therapeutic value of MDMA may be good (though I think others such as mescaline would be better), there are few people who use it that way, and there are many who use xanax the way it should.
    Think about how LARGE the difference is in the number of years each has been around. Then rethink your statement.
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    I posted this in the other thread that was started in od before i saw this one, so i figured ill just put it in here as well.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7028532

    Diclofensine inhibits the uptake of serotonin, noradrenaline and dopamine. In a controlled study, out-patients suffering from moderate to severe depression were treated with the objective of assessing the new drug's therapeutically effective dose range. Maprotiline was used as a reference drug: fourteen patients were assigned to receive diclofensine and thirteen to receive maprotiline in a double-blind design. Depending on tolerance and efficacy, they were treated for periods ranging from 5 to 150 days. Doses were titrated to the optimum. Findings suggest that a 50 mg daily dose of diclofensine would be sufficient for the majority of the patients. The dosage can be safely increased up to 150 mg daily but this offers few therapeutic advantages. While the efficacy index of the two drugs was similar (approximately 60% ), they differed greatly in their profile of side-effects. No signs of abrupt dissipation of the achieved clinical effects were observed during continued treatment, and no withdrawal reactions were observed when the treatment was stopped. The new drug may be more effective in treating patients in whom a psycho-energizing and mood alleviating effect is desired.
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by yourtman View Post
    I have seen ecstasy rising, and I've been in your exact position before. Both sides got it wrong. MDMA is very bad for you, at least in my experiance. Even one dose dose you signifigent damage (imho). I'm not speaking out of propaganda, but out of personal experiance.

    Also, regarding anxiety. Most anxiety is psychological, but there are definitly some neurological cases. Such as MDMA abuse and the chemical imbalances. There's some anxiety you can not beat with thought processes.
    HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY disagree with you here. First I'd like to point out your words: in my experience and in my opinion. this is indeed your opinion and not fact about the drug. One average dose of MDMA cannot harm you unless you have some kind of reaction to it that is uncommon. Out of all the studies ever done on MDMA there is no proof that MDMA is "very bad for you"


    Regarding anxiety here's a little food for thought:
    A person's brain is the central "computer" of the body and thus controls EVERY SINGLE FUNCTION of the body. There are people who have control over their minds to the point that they can stop their own heart from beating. Now, since everything is controlled by the brain, in a sense, everything is psychological. Keeping these things in mind, please explain to me why a person- even one with an "abnormal mind" -cannot control something as simple as a feeling?
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    #17
    I'm not saying we don't recover, I've recovered (at least starting to), but imho drug culture undersestimates the adverse effects alot and causes alot of unsuspecting people to fall into a bad, bad, hole. I feel like when further studies are done we will find the true nature of MDMA.
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    #18
    This claim is ridiculous yourtman. to say that the "drug culture" underestimates the effects is simply absurd. You need to keep in mind that it's not just the drug culture saying it deals no harm!! If we want to talk about psychological harm then sure, I suppose that I could go with you on this fact as long as it's agreed upon that everyone is different and has different minds; therefore, not everyone is going to get these so called adverse effects.
    Further studies HAVE been done on MDMA. MAPS and some in California have BEEN doing studies. people have been using ecstasy for a very long time, and even people that were chronic users earlier in their lives say that they have no long term effects from it, and they obviously don't look or act like they're fucked up.
    I don't know how much research you've done, and I'm not trying to insult you here, but I'm thinking maybe you should do just a little more research on this topic
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    #19
    I think I am going to have to agree that MDMA is taxing on the body and mind.

    Thats not to say that It is damaging. But I certainly noticed mentally and physically I performed less well in the immediate days to weeks following MDMA use.

    I feel like now that I have not used MDMA in a very long time I am fine. But I sometimes wonder how different my level of achievement would be if I had skipped my MDMA time period of my life.

    I know that everyone responds differently to different drugs etc, but here is some food for thought; What would happen if you used MDMA like xannax and other prescription meds are used....

    With that in mind I think its safe to say MDMA would be much more damaging to the body and mind. I know MDMA isnt used that way (by most people, although there are some that seem to really fall off the wagon with the shit) but lets just be honest with ourselves, MDMA is not harmless, the benefits definatly outweigh the risks, but I think its a bit foolish to think that it is entirely harmless.

    Just my .02

    Wow, I just realized I wrote an essay that was completely off topic... sorry
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    #20
    Once again I must point out that this is in YOUR EXPERIENCE. You may not perform as well but I must way I never have any problems what-so-ever after a night of rolling. The only physical effects that I feel are the physical affects that one gets from a long night of fun and not sleeping. Also were you taking beans or molly? If you're not taking 100% MDMA then how can you say that MDMA is affecting you? Also did you do any other drugs at all? How can you seem so confident that it is indeed the MDMA that is negatively affecting you?

    Food for thought? No, not at all, sorry. Here's some for you though. I've personally seen people snort up to 10mg of xanax and get all kinds of fucked up. Let's say you even take the most powerful legally prescribed dose, 2mg (though we know few people are perscribed the 2 mgs. You're now going FIVE TIMES the normal dose, this is considered recreational. Now, let's work backwards from the already Recreational dose of 90-100mg of MDMA to a medicinal dose. This = 18-25 mg. THIS is what would happen if you used MDMA like xanax is SUPPOSED to be used. how much do you think that you're going to get out of that 18-25 mg? Gonna feel tired? gonna feel messed up afterwards? Do you even think that's enough to roll for a night?

    With that in mind I think it's safe to say MDMA would not be much more damaging to the body and mind. I am being honest with myself, please find me proof that MDMA is damaging, keep in mind there's already proof that xanax is damaging. You're right on one thing, nothing is entirely harmless, not even water. there's a difference between use and abuse of something. The people that cross this line are the ones that eventually get fucked over in life.

    it's okay that it's off topic, we hijacked this thread long ago. Sorry any major dude.
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    Well in my experience, MDMA feels as if it's left behind a significant issue in my brain, and yes, I definitely had 100% pure MDMA crystal. I don't notice it anymore, years later, but you could never convince me that MDMA isn't at least potentially damaging. But like we often say, we're all affected differently. It's silly to argue about it because everyone has their own experience. You can't tell me that MDMA didn't hurt me, and I can't tell you did did hurt you.

    Well this thread isn't about whether or not MDMA is damaging, so let's discuss diclofensine instead.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybion View Post
    Once again I must point out that this is in YOUR EXPERIENCE. You may not perform as well but I must way I never have any problems what-so-ever after a night of rolling. The only physical effects that I feel are the physical affects that one gets from a long night of fun and not sleeping. Also were you taking beans or molly? If you're not taking 100% MDMA then how can you say that MDMA is affecting you? Also did you do any other drugs at all? How can you seem so confident that it is indeed the MDMA that is negatively affecting you?

    Food for thought? No, not at all, sorry. Here's some for you though. I've personally seen people snort up to 10mg of xanax and get all kinds of fucked up. Let's say you even take the most powerful legally prescribed dose, 2mg (though we know few people are perscribed the 2 mgs. You're now going FIVE TIMES the normal dose, this is considered recreational. Now, let's work backwards from the already Recreational dose of 90-100mg of MDMA to a medicinal dose. This = 18-25 mg. THIS is what would happen if you used MDMA like xanax is SUPPOSED to be used. how much do you think that you're going to get out of that 18-25 mg? Gonna feel tired? gonna feel messed up afterwards? Do you even think that's enough to roll for a night?

    With that in mind I think it's safe to say MDMA would not be much more damaging to the body and mind. I am being honest with myself, please find me proof that MDMA is damaging, keep in mind there's already proof that xanax is damaging. You're right on one thing, nothing is entirely harmless, not even water. there's a difference between use and abuse of something. The people that cross this line are the ones that eventually get fucked over in life.

    it's okay that it's off topic, we hijacked this thread long ago. Sorry any major dude.
    No worries. Also, therapeutic dose of MDMA is ~100-125mg, and only given a handful of times a year several months apart. [/thread derail]

    As for diclofensine, in addition to potential abuse there were some health concerns as well, particularly liver and kidney issues. So if anyone's going to try this do be careful. I imagine that the putative health concerns would be from daily, long-ish term dosage, but am not sure. If anyone with access to full text of the articles wants to post the interesting bits here, please do
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    #23
    well this compound is on sale*snip*, are there any trip reports yet? It seems that it is a relativly safe substance when there even were some clinical tests, but is it fun? ^^ maybe even similar to coke? ( being a triple reputake inhibitor too)
    Last edited by Shambles; 03-07-2010 at 13:18. Reason: tmi
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    #24
    From what I can gather, (for example this link) it does not sound particularly promising, at least not in the doses that were tested (up to 50 mg).

    Might be a different story with higher doses...
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    #25
    well i think vendors do sample their products before ordering bulk so it should have some potency or am I wrong? I hope someone will try it out soon ^^ (and yes maybe doses around 100mg could be good, I really hope this is bit like coke ^^)
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