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Codeine potentiation and synergy thread

Just thought I'd quickly share a story regarding people trying to maximize their codeine highs.

The first substance I ever got into, even before my grassroots of shrooms and bud, was codeine phosphate. I had an eccentric friend "Ozzy," who throughout his younger life was always too smart for his own good. He had social problems to a point, and never fit in properly with most. He went under regular therapy whit all sorts of doctors. All of them cam to the consensus that he was severely depressed, and a bunch more other social disorders.

Ozzy was the guy who taught me all about the ease in which to extract codeine. At first I just thought he was a crazed mad man proclaiming you can get wasted off shit you get from a chemist, WITHOUT SCRIPT! There were times I would rock up to school ready for a double in Math, which was one of the 4/5 i shared with him and he would just hand me this tiny vial that was usually used for holding oil incenses. "Drink this" he said.
"What is it? We have a SAC coming up and I think I want to pass."
"It's bliss, it will make you concentrate better."
"What, like ritalin?"
"Haha, god no."
"So it will help me concentrate better on my SAC?"
"No, it'll help you concentrate on not giving a fuck. Try and see beyond this school, life needs to be lived. Exist in the moment." (he had a disturbing obsession with Dr. House, which has dictated a lot of his later life decisions)

He had me sold.

From that day on, I was abusing codeine more often than I touched myself (we were only 16 at the time) and we couldn't see any immediate problems. I had a heap before each of my final year 12 exams (except for math methods, that day was worse because I had tried the infamous nutmeg cake.) Just a quick side note, for those who believe drugs affect peoples performances, I have to say I still ended up with an ENTER of 88 so suck it.

Once school days were over, I still spoke to him on a regular basis and we would hang out every now and then. One sunny morning, I went to his house for a surprise visit and to wake his arse up (slept in until he couldn't hold on to his piss any longer). I knocked on the door, no answer. Walked around the back and kcocked, no answer. "This is strange." I thought to myself. I then went to peep through his window when the next door neighbor came over and started to question me. It seems he had thought I was trying to break into the house or something. After justifying myself to him, the neighbor went on to tell me something that made me sick to the stomach.
"James is in hospital, possibly could have died."
I didn't know what to say, I just unveiled my dumbfounded brain by blurting out a bunch of cerebral bulimia. "Ww, www, wwhaat did you just say?" I asked him
"His dad said that he found James on the couch, all covered in vomit and unresponsive. The ambo's were in and out reall fast so I'm not really sure where he could be.''
It was days before I was allowed to go and visit him in anyway. When I finally got in contact with his dad, the instructed me I need to go to the Freemasons hospital. I had a little bit of a chuckle at this, as Ozzy was always one to waffle on about how much he thinks the Freemasons are conspiring against the rest of the world.

I walked into his room, and found him there, semi-constrained with straps but completely inapt and subconsciously existing. He was well out of it. I walked up next his bed, grabbed his hand and tried to connect either through conversation or eye contact. There wasn't much hope though. It wasn't long after this, that his nurse rocked in to do some her duties. This was the first time that Ozzy had spoken and he turned to me and said "What the fuck did you give me?" Beyond that he couldn't verbalize any other thoughts or ideas. I was shocked, completely taken aback . I tried to explain that it wasn't me, and that I infact had not seen him in weeks. Overhearing what had been said, the nurse thought she would try and take it further and possibly be investigated for truth. I was very lucky that Ozzys dad had taken a sicky from his night shift, as it supplied me with an alibi, but the greatest twist of fate, is the only reason that my friend is still alive today.

What happened: Ozzy was normally smart enough to exercise proper harm reduction. At the time but, because of his misdiagnosis and off the mark medicating, he wasn't in complete control of his rational mind. During our heyday of codeine use, we were having 700-800mg at a time. By itself, especially with a high tolerance these doses were just enough to get us where we wanted. Ozzy hadn't even thought that his polydrug use would possibly endanger him let alone change the course of his life forever.

He consumed 800mg of extracted codeine phosphate, 10mg of alprazolam, a bottle of cough syrup containing DXM, and anywhere between 1-2 bottles of red wine. After some time he slipped out of consciousness, and filled his lungs full of barf. The biggest, and most shocking eclipse of supernatural I have encountered in my life, lies within the father of my friend. He had taken the day off (the guy is a work veteran, something llike 4 days off in 20 years in the company so why did he choose this particular day?), and at about midnight, decided to get up and retrieve a glass of water. To his horror, he found his one and only son seemingly motionless, and hauntingly observed as deceased.

Ozzy wasn't quite dead, they ambulance had to rush him and have his lungs pumped. So on top of all of the damage done to him physically, he ended up with a life threatening chest infection that lasted a little over a month. If you think all of this is pretty bad, it's only half the story.

The rest of the facts I'll keep short because they are rather unrelated to my story or point. Because of Ozzys ongoing social and depression struggles the doctors theorized and acted upon the idea that he had infact, tried to commit suicide (so far from the truth, and I was the only one who stuck by his side by this). The best course of action according to these experts, was to lock him up in the (as he calls it) the 'fucking loony bin."
They later diagnosed him, after much non consensual restraint, with having a loose form of schizophrenia, which would explain his suicide attempt and his troubled youth...

All of this because he wanted to get high.

These days are much better for him, the schizophrenia label has been removed and more fitting diagnosis of bipolar disorder has been handed down to him. He is now properly medicated, and can now live a functional life in which he is free to focus on the things that actually matter to him. He occasionly uses small amounts of opiates, but for the most part only rarely.

This was an intense life experience for me, and many other involved. I hope you have enjoyed my story and the main point I was trying a demonstrate has been conveyed.

Peace out my BL brothers.

HTMB.
 
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3) wait 30mins then start with potentiators (6mg periactin, 60mg DXM).

DXM doesn't actually potentiate codeine in the true sense of increasing BA/metabolism/AUC/Cmax , morphine yes significantly but numerous studies have shown decreased morphine serum levels and attenuation of analgesia when DXM is combined with Code.

Most likely it's via competition for cyp2d6 , since dxm is a substrate of this enzyme and is metabolised via cyp2d6 into Dextorphan the active metabolite which is the NMDA antagonist responsible for opiate potentation.

Other non competitive NMDA antagonists could still be good candidates for potentiation. epsom salts is pretty cheap and cheerful.
 
wow. thanks for sharing that story, heythatsmybike.

so glad to hear your friend survived and is living a much more normal and safe life now.

are you still in somewhat regular contact with him?

just wow. some kind of divine intervention there given his father had taken that night off. could have been a fatal end otherwise.

just goes to show...
 
DXM doesn't actually potentiate codeine in the true sense of increasing BA/metabolism/AUC/Cmax , morphine yes significantly but numerous studies have shown decreased morphine serum levels and attenuation of analgesia when DXM is combined with Code.

Most likely it's via competition for cyp2d6 , since dxm is a substrate of this enzyme and is metabolised via cyp2d6 into Dextorphan the active metabolite which is the NMDA antagonist responsible for opiate potentation.

Other non competitive NMDA antagonists could still be good candidates for potentiation. epsom salts is pretty cheap and cheerful.

Wow, thanks for that, had to slow my reading down, but I got there.

I don't codeine as much these days, mainly morph. But I remember the day I first dosed my codeine with DXM. I felt like the codeine kicked in very quick (stomach situation probably played a role, but usually it'd take 20-25 mins before enjoyment, with DXM it came on strong at the 10-15 min mark). And the the high felt more euphoric (you could put that down to placebo I suppose). The length of the high seemed to linger longer.

I used DXM before any opiate since that day.

And ODB could you please elaborate more on the Epsom salts?

This thread is fantastic and well done by D_M, but I'd like to remind people that getting in a habit of allways using potentiators can become dangerous/addictive (depending on what you use).

Cocktails can and a lot of times do cause death.

Study, study, study. One experiment goes wrong and you'll never get that chance to experiment again. Stay safe.
 
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Just thought I'd quickly share a story regarding people trying to maximize their codeine highs.

The first substance I ever got into, even before my grassroots of shrooms and bud, was codeine phosphate. I had an eccentric friend "Ozzy," who throughout his younger life was always too smart for his own good. He had social problems to a point, and never fit in properly with most. He went under regular therapy whit all sorts of doctors. All of them cam to the consensus that he was severely depressed, and a bunch more other social disorders.

Ozzy was the guy who taught me all about the ease in which to extract codeine. At first I just thought he was a crazed mad man proclaiming you can get wasted off shit you get from a chemist, WITHOUT SCRIPT! There were times I would rock up to school ready for a double in Math, which was one of the 4/5 i shared with him and he would just hand me this tiny vial that was usually used for holding oil incenses. "Drink this" he said.
"What is it? We have a SAC coming up and I think I want to pass."
"It's bliss, it will make you concentrate better."
"What, like ritalin?"
"Haha, god no."
"So it will help me concentrate better on my SAC?"
"No, it'll help you concentrate on not giving a fuck. Try and see beyond this school, life needs to be lived. Exist in the moment." (he had a disturbing obsession with Dr. House, which has dictated a lot of his later life decisions)

He had me sold.

From that day on, I was abusing codeine more often than I touched myself (we were only 16 at the time) and we couldn't see any immediate problems. I had a heap before each of my final year 12 exams (except for math methods, that day was worse because I had tried the infamous nutmeg cake.) Just a quick side note, for those who believe drugs affect peoples performances, I have to say I still ended up with an ENTER of 88 so suck it.

Once school days were over, I still spoke to him on a regular basis and we would hang out every now and then. One sunny morning, I went to his house for a surprise visit and to wake his arse up (slept in until he couldn't hold on to his piss any longer). I knocked on the door, no answer. Walked around the back and kcocked, no answer. "This is strange." I thought to myself. I then went to peep through his window when the next door neighbor came over and started to question me. It seems he had thought I was trying to break into the house or something. After justifying myself to him, the neighbor went on to tell me something that made me sick to the stomach.
"James is in hospital, possibly could have died."
I didn't know what to say, I just unveiled my dumbfounded brain by blurting out a bunch of cerebral bulimia. "Ww, www, wwhaat did you just say?" I asked him
"His dad said that he found James on the couch, all covered in vomit and unresponsive. The ambo's were in and out reall fast so I'm not really sure where he could be.''
It was days before I was allowed to go and visit him in anyway. When I finally got in contact with his dad, the instructed me I need to go to the Freemasons hospital. I had a little bit of a chuckle at this, as Ozzy was always one to waffle on about how much he thinks the Freemasons are conspiring against the rest of the world.

I walked into his room, and found him there, semi-constrained with straps but completely inapt and subconsciously existing. He was well out of it. I walked up next his bed, grabbed his hand and tried to connect either through conversation or eye contact. There wasn't much hope though. It wasn't long after this, that his nurse rocked in to do some her duties. This was the first time that Ozzy had spoken and he turned to me and said "What the fuck did you give me?" Beyond that he couldn't verbalize any other thoughts or ideas. I was shocked, completely taken aback . I tried to explain that it wasn't me, and that I infact had not seen him in weeks. Overhearing what had been said, the nurse thought she would try and take it further and possibly be investigated for truth. I was very lucky that Ozzys dad had taken a sicky from his night shift, as it supplied me with an alibi, but the greatest twist of fate, is the only reason that my friend is still alive today.

What happened: Ozzy was normally smart enough to exercise proper harm reduction. At the time but, because of his misdiagnosis and off the mark medicating, he wasn't in complete control of his rational mind. During our heyday of codeine use, we were having 700-800mg at a time. By itself, especially with a high tolerance these doses were just enough to get us where we wanted. Ozzy hadn't even thought that his polydrug use would possibly endanger him let alone change the course of his life forever.

He consumed 800mg of extracted codeine phosphate, 10mg of alprazolam, a bottle of cough syrup containing DXM, and anywhere between 1-2 bottles of red wine. After some time he slipped out of consciousness, and filled his lungs full of barf. The biggest, and most shocking eclipse of supernatural I have encountered in my life, lies within the father of my friend. He had taken the day off (the guy is a work veteran, something llike 4 days off in 20 years in the company so why did he choose this particular day?), and at about midnight, decided to get up and retrieve a glass of water. To his horror, he found his one and only son seemingly motionless, and hauntingly observed as deceased.

Ozzy wasn't quite dead, they ambulance had to rush him and have his lungs pumped. So on top of all of the damage done to him physically, he ended up with a life threatening chest infection that lasted a little over a month. If you think all of this is pretty bad, it's only half the story.

The rest of the facts I'll keep short because they are rather unrelated to my story or point. Because of Ozzys ongoing social and depression struggles the doctors theorized and acted upon the idea that he had infact, tried to commit suicide (so far from the truth, and I was the only one who stuck by his side by this). The best course of action according to these experts, was to lock him up in the (as he calls it) the 'fucking loony bin."
They later diagnosed him, after much non consensual restraint, with having a loose form of schizophrenia, which would explain his suicide attempt and his troubled youth...

All of this because he wanted to get high.

These days are much better for him, the schizophrenia label has been removed and more fitting diagnosis of bipolar disorder has been handed down to him. He is now properly medicated, and can now live a functional life in which he is free to focus on the things that actually matter to him. He occasionly uses small amounts of opiates, but for the most part only rarely.

This was an intense life experience for me, and many other involved. I hope you have enjoyed my story and the main point I was trying a demonstrate has been conveyed.

Peace out my BL brothers.

HTMB.

Whoa, sorry, I read this after my above post.

As tent says, thanks for sharing that story, it's quite amazing.

Good to see he's getting himself sorted.
 
And ODB could you please elaborate more on the Epsom salts?

Epsom salts ( magnesium sulfate) are also an NMDA antagonist.
Much like how morphine binds to the mu-opiod receptor or coke binds to dopamine receptors, there is a Mg2+ (magnesium cation) binding site on the NMDA receptor, NMDA antagonists like DXM or Ketamine work by blocking the flow of calcium into the receptor with magnesium ions.

Part of the reason NMDA antagonists work to increase potency and prevent tolerance in opiates is by increasing or stopping the reduction of opiod receptors. The downside is that through the same mechanism they effect neural plasticity, essential for learning , memory etc.

pretty sure oral magnesium supplementation wouldn't be as effective as the IV or intrathecal co-administration used in most studies , but still it's a good candidate for codeine though. DXM and a low dose of magnesium would be effective for other opiates that aren't major substrates of CYP2D6.

144-0706086f3.jpg


^this graph shows how effective DXM can be for increasing total amount of morphine absorbed and it's peak serum levels. M=Morphine, M+DM = Morphine + DXM

144-0706086f4.jpg


^shows the massive drop in serum morphine levels when DXM is combined with codeine.

For more info the following link is to a good document on NMDA receptors + antagonists and how they can be used for preventing tolerance to alcohol, benzos and opiates.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1527-3458.1999.tb00096.x/pdf

Peeps should remember if they are attempting this type of thing to start with a lower dose than usual.
The maximum recommended daily dose of DXM is 120 mg (1mg/kg I.M was effective for morphine potentiation and tolerance reduction in monkeys). the RDA for Magnesium is 350-420mg. Excess Mg can cause potentially fatal heart and breathing problems and should be avoided by those with kidney issues
 
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Hey just want to say, awesome thread, I read this years ago when first starting out on the codeine adventure and here's where I learnt the magical CWE, but I've only just decided to join bluelight now, after years of nightly CWE codeine I obviously hit a point where the codeine mg was way more than I care to admit and effects were dimming, I needed to add something to the mix so I tried almost every suggestion and the only one with any real and decent effects (well within my price range lol) is taking tramadol an hour before the codeine it makes a huuuugge difference, been doing that for maybe two years so now I take some tram, I wait 45mins and I take some more tram, half the first dose, then 30 mins later the codeine, it works perfectly it's great, if I have codeine without tram now well it does almost zero for me. Although never take more than 400mgs of tram in a single dose, this drug does not screw around with the warnings and even with my massive tolerance to opiates and everything I still have had seizures, 3, 6 months apart, when I took 5-600mg so just DO NOT do it. I was fortunate enough to be inside and I was alone the first time and had no idea I had had one but witnesses were around the next time but I have to be grateful I wasn't outside (falling as dead weight does some damage when u hit the ground) and even worse would be if u were driving, I never took a dose over 400mg again I'm a good girl now haha and have had no issues for past year. Hope this is useful to someone ☺️
 
Wow. Always blows my mind when people bump these threads from way back when and I see the stuff I posted nearly half a decade ago, or names that haven't been around in years....
 
Hello, and apologies for necromancing this thread, however I found a great deal of aptly researched and well thought replies here to this subject. I thought I would share with you guys some information about a compound I have found useful. I rarely go above 100mg or so of Codeine, and to give you an idea of my opioid tolerance I like 3 grams of kratom with olive leaf, or 10mg of hydrocodone a couple of days after DXM use.
There was one issue I thought could be concerning that is in one of these abstracts:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20448858
This one states that its effect on 2D6 is minimal, however the mention of irreversible inhibition @ 3a4 makes me cautious to overuse it.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15342469
Finally, this study is why I thought you guys may be interested if you have ever been lazy in the past and did not perform a CWE or know people who have been hasty:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24604262

Indeed, not a magical solution to prevent any damage you may wish to incur, however I have found 3 or so berries mixed with olive oil to be quite potent when 3a4 inhibition is sought, whether it be DXM or Codeine. GFJ also works for DXM but I had no such luck with codeine with it. Hope this helps, and thank you for your time. I found the aforementioned research about Schisandra on examine.com.
 
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Thanks for the post. Always like seeing interesting new ways of potentiation. Two questions: when's it best take it? (i.e. before, at dose time, etc.)

Also after googling it, might a herbal extract be as effective as the berries themselves?
 
The examine article contains "Formulations and Variants" that you may find useful. I have never tried the extracts so I cannot comment on that. I find that eating them about an hour before has been effective. They seem to absorb best in some kind of lipid, similar to milk thistle or aniracetam.
 
This was a very old post but it was very informative and interesting to read, so thanks to everyone.


I don't know where codeine was legal and easily accessible, but it's not in the U.S. I recently ordered and received a shipment from an online, overseas pharmacy. I've received Tramadol from them before, so I feel like their products are legit. Anyway, I've never experimented with Codeine so this is a first for me. I'm typically an Oxy lover, but it's just too hard to come by, so I figured I'd give codeine a shot.

These codeine pills are 15 milligrams of codeine sulfate. It does not appear to have anything else mixed in, but with all this talk of CWE with codeine, I figured I'd check in with the experts. I'm assuming that the legal versions to which you've all referred were paired with acetaminophen? I don't think mine are.

Now I need to figure out which potentiator to use when I try the codeine later today. Anyone out there who can recommend the best one that's OTC here in the U.S.? Considering Robotussin DX or grapefruit juice but not sure of the dosage I should start with. I should mention I have a very high tolerance to Oxy (takes me at least 45 milligrams to get a buzz) and I take about 600 - 700 mgs of Tramadol. I'm a 39 year old female in great health.

Thanks to anyone who has some advice!
 
This is a bit confusing

The OP says that antihistamines such as Promethazine and Diphendhydramine, and grapefruit juice, potentiate codeine, but they are all CYP2D6 inhibitors, so wouldn't they actually prevent the conversion of codeine into morphine?
 
The three substances you mention are ones which have been mentioned in various places as substances which potentiate codeine. Part of my purpose in this thread was to try out a bunch of supposed codeine potentiators and report how well they worked. I had read that grapefruit juice actually didn't inhibit CYP2D6, but rather CYP3A4 - I can't tell you at this stage how true this is. If you had read the descriptions this should have cleared up your confusion.

Grapefruit Juice (GFJ)- I had toyed with the idea of using grapefruit juice for a long time but have read mixed reports. Recently I read that it doesn't inhibit CYP2D6 but rahter 3A4 which is responsible for conversion of codeine into norcodeine. In theory by inhibiting 3A4 you leave more codeine for 2D6 to turn into morphine. After reading this I decided to bite the bullet and give it a go. I had about 200ml of store bought grapefruit juice and about 100ml of squeezed juice around an hour before drinking my codeine. It definately seemed to increase the effects of both the codeine and the diazepam I took. I would say it potentiates diazepam/valium more than codeine but it does potentiate both. It is not a miracle potentiator and it definately does not potentiate codeine to a large extent, I found it to taste pretty gross personally and it isn't terribly cheap. Some people might not find it worth the mild potentiation it causes, if one is combining valium with their codeine I would say it is more worthwhile. I will be using it again, although the bitter taste is a bit of a deterrant for me, personally I would rather drink CWE! At this stage I have only used the red grapefruit juice and it seemed to work well enough, I have been advised that white grapefruit juice is better for potentiation purposes of both codeine and benzodiazepines.

The following links have useful information on grapefruit juice:
Grapefruit Juice FAQ
Negative Results
Erowid
'Caffeine and Grapefruit to Potentiate Codeine'

IMPORTANT NOTE: Using grapefruit juice will potentiate benzodiazepines as well as codeine, if you are using benzodiazepines to potentiate as well as grapefruit juice then please take this into consideration when dosing, according to one of the linked documents on GFJ it also potentiates DXM. Furthermore, it is definately worth noting that there are as many negative reports about the use of GFJ as positive ones, it seems to work for me but your results may vary as it may also inhibit 2D6.

I noted my reasoning for thinking that GFJ might be a good potentiator (the inhibiting 3A4 instead of 2D6 mentioned above, and a reason why one might suppose this could lead to potentiating codeine) and reported my experience with it. (I now think my reason for supposing the inhibition of 3A4 might lead to codeine potentiation is not particularly logical, since it isn't clear that there is a relationship between the 'ceiling dose' and how much codeine is 'available' to be converted to morphine - I was young and fairly drugged out at the time.)

Promethazine/'Phenergan'- Good antihistamine, I find it more effective at relieving itching than doxy, but as you have to wait a while after drinking your codeine to take it I don't like it so much. I use 25-50mg usually. I find promethazine seems to increase the duration of the warmth, possibly because it inhibits CYP2D6 although since I wait till after dosing and notice no reduction in effects it seems like it might just be synergy.

Wiki
Drugs.com
Erowid

I noted that it was a CYP2D6 inhibitor, and that by waiting a while after drinking the codeine to take promethazine I did not personally experience reduced effect.

Diphenhydramine/'Snuzaid'- Inhibits CYP2D6, gets raved about as an opiate potentiator in general. My one and only experience using this was dismal. I waited about 15 minutes after my codeine started to come on to take it, roughly the same I would with promethazine, within 15 minutes my high was dead. Not only did it not escalate but it seemed to kill the buzz I already had going. Somehow even though it is an antihistamine, by half an hour after popping the 50mg of diphenhydramine the only opiate effect I had left was itchiness!
Wiki
Drugs.com
Erowid

This is the one example of the three you listed where I found the 'potentiator' to actually reduce the effect of codeine. Like I used to do with promethazine, I waited a while until after I had dosed my codeine to use the diphenhydramine, but it still seemed to kill my codeine high pretty quickly.

I hope my commentary has made this less confusing for you. :)
 
yes thank you. I have had difficulty getting much positive effect from codeine so I surmise that I may not be a good metaboliser and/or lack the CYP2D6 enzyme.

I will try Promethazine and GFJ next time
 
I always heard codiene needs the enzyme that GFJ blocks. I know phenergan kills kratom for me. Great to know if I take too much as I did once. I think the phenergan probably saved me from a horrible day. Anyway, I have never even seen white grapefruit juice. I hurt my foot and thus have some codiene I am looking to potentiate because even with kratom it hurts like Hell guess it cannot hurt to try grapefruit juice I have some here and it helps the kratom. Anyone ever tried kratom and codiene?
 
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