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    PCP analogs (Cumulative) 
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    Bluelighter adder's Avatar
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    Here's what came up with my research on 1-(1-phenylcyclohexyl)piperidine and its analogs. I've seen there's quite an interest in PCP analogs right now so I thought I would dig up my kind of old notes and reports (cut syntheses) and post a somewhat cumulative trip report/summary. This class of psychoactive substances are interesting for chemists and pharmacologists as some of them may be used in research on NMDA receptors, others are quite potent DARIs or act on opioid receptors almost as strong as morphine (or even stronger). Not a long poetical trip report, I rather concentrate on general things. Sometimes I wrote only differences to PCP because effects weren't so astonishing/different much to PCP. PCP potency was sketched so potency of other drugs can be simply calculated unless they behave different. So here it goes. Get what you want from it but read disclaimer and keep in mind I'm more of a chemist than a junkie when it comes to such a class, a user is better word but I prefer plain ketamine (not that plain in fact) to wild PCE (even though I like PCE). Once again: SYNTHESES DELETED from the original pieces of documents (this also cut a lot of text and some chaos might be left over now but I added some comments here and there).

    DISCLAIMER: I take no responsibility for anyone's taking seriously all the way what's written here. These are just general subjective opinions of my own and people I worked with. Also, Iím no ďresearch chemicalĒ vendor or a seller of anything per se. Do not PM me about trading.

    PCP, 1-(1-phenylcyclohexyl)piperidine [I will include my names for structures, they may not always be the same as IUPAC]

    Dose/route: 15mg orally of HCl salt
    Report: Takes on after 20-30 minutes. Good dose. Dissociative effects firstly noticed when everything seems like it's further than it is. No aggression observed, just heartbeat speeded up. Laying and closing eyes brings CEVs at 2h. Now body heaviness is clearly felt. Little nausea happened at 10mg p.o. but wasn't felt after the drug came on fully. The whole experience was accompanied by distinctive euphoria. After 4-5h major effects subside. After effects are felt for another 12-16h.

    Dose/route: 10mg intranasally of HCl salt
    Report: Onset of effects at about 5-10 min. Effects subside at 4h, not some major difference in duration, just the onset is faster.

    Dose/route: 10mg intramuscularly of HCl salt
    Report: Effects are almost immediate as for i.m. injection. There's some paranoia during the experience for some time, then easiness came in. There was particularly no choice if to lay or not. The experience carried on not controlled. During (pre-)anaestethic state I felt like I lost the image of "me", then I could look at my personality from different aspects, this led to partial depersonalization as I didn't control what was going on and more and more images I saw as "not being myself". Euphoria was diminished in contrast to oral administration. Everything subsided after about 3-4h. After effects were as long as 6-8h.

    Trials with PCP led to conclusions about dosage: up to 5mg gives a light experience, up to 10mg gives a real knowledge what it can give and higher doses, especially 15mg and more i.m. provide a very strong and intoxicating experience. The most "PCP" euphoria is felt after insufflating because it comes in fast and somehow I had problems getting totally anesthetized that way. These rules applied to most chemicals in this class. PCP, PCM, PCE, TCP, PCPy, TCPy etc.

    1. Cyclohexyl ring modificated analogs

    Intro: cyclohexyl ring is probably where it all lies. One modification can totally aboilish activity as well as it can give a strong analog but with different affinities for plain PCP targets. We bore in mind one successful modification could make us jump at total opioid or dissociative compounds. Combinations of two would be good too.

    1-(1-phenylcyclopentyl)piperidine

    The substance wasn't even synthesized. Any enlargement (or the contrary action) of the cyclohexane ring gives a massive decrease in activity, so no further research makes sense.

    1-(4-methyl-1-phenylcyclohexyl)piperidine, 4-Methyl-PCP

    Route/dose: 10mg orally of HCl salt
    Report:
    This drug is certainly more active than PCP. Its targets in CNS are the same for sure. On miligram basis it's a bit more potent than PCP and I sense some light opioid activity here.

    4-phenyl-4-(piperidin-1-yl)cyclohexanone, 4-Oxo-PCP


    Route/dose: 20mg intramuscularly of HCl salt
    Report:
    This is an interesting compound. It almost completely lost its NMDA blockade effects. Instead it possesses opioid-like activity. Probably PCE analogs of this would yield very strong narcotic-like compounds. But that's just a prediction. PCE analog could still retain NMDA antagonist properties while having strong a narcotic effect similar to that of morphine.

    2-phenyl-2-(piperidin-1-yl)cyclohexanone, 2-Oxo-PCP

    Route/dose: 20mg intramuscularly of HCl salt
    Report: Here lies the rub. This is some cousin of ketamine and tiletamine. Adding a keto group on position 2 or position 4 changes much how the structure of molecule looks like. This isnít much different to 4-Oxo-PCP, it may be a bit more potent, both provide increased anesthetic and analgesic action different to PCP and the experience is short-living, yet itís not as short as ketamineís. The ideal chemical to get such activity would be 2-Oxo-TCE while 2-Oxo-3í-OH-PCP/2-Oxo-3í-OH-PCE would be a PCP structure keeping opioid agonist with strong anesthetic properties.

    2. Aromatic ring modificated/replaced analogs (and pyrrolidine analogs)

    a. Aromatic ring replacements and piperidine modifications

    PCPy, Rolicyclidine, 1-(1-phenylcyclohexyl)pyrrolidine

    Route/dose: 10mg intranasally of HCl salt
    Report: Rolicyclidine is easier than plain PCP. It's even sedative, there are no bothering stimulant effects here but dissociative properties are present totally. From the dose I took it's safe to say it's as potent as PCP or a little stronger but seems to be easier to trip on. Some methylation on pyrrolidine ring doesn't abolish activity, 3,3-dimethyl analog is still potent.

    TCP, Tenocyclidine, 1-[1-(thiophen-2-yl)cyclohexyl]piperidine

    Route/dose: 5mg intranasally of HCl salt
    Report: Onset is as fast as 5 minutes, very similar to PCP's. The drug overpowers PCP totally. Not only in dosage but it's also less euphoric and more insightful as a dissociative. It definitely causes stronger blockade of NMDA channel and less euphoric effects are easily explained by its distinctive less sigma activity.

    TCPy, 1-[1-(thiophen-2-yl)cyclohexyl]pyrrolidine

    Route/dose: 10mg intranasally of HCl salt
    Report: By the drug action it can be easily stated its potency is more like PCP, loses wide to TCP. Under impression of how PCPy worked, a mellow, sedative dissociative, TCPy leaves us wondering what causes are.

    BCP or BTCP, Benocyclidine, 1-[1-(1-benzothiphen-2-yl)cyclohexyl]piperidine

    Some more work were done to substitute standard benzene ring. Not because of unknown interest. At the time the decision on synthesis was made, at least 4 papers suggested itís a totally different PCP analog. A very potent and selective DARI (IC50 = 7nM, ADDED: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3384005) with very little affinity for NMDA channel (K0.5 = 6μM = 6,000 nM) cited as a pharmacophore for DARI stimulants.

    Route/dose: 30mg intranasally as HCl salt (ADDED: I had too little information to draw any range of dosage and I was never really into stimulants, I reported basing on my experience too but much more is based on other team members and ďtestersĒ experiences)
    Report: Dose adjustment wasnít good at all. This was the hardest part (too little, titrating may be long, too much, I may never synthesize anything in my life again). This should be definitely rather vaporized than insufflated. It would be easy to find an appropriate dosage for this but there are many reasons why this ends here, in ďbinĒ. One of the reasons is I got satisfied with my interest in this drug. Itís a pure stimulant with DARI properties overpowering totally any activity at NMDA. But itís not like BCP is going to flood black market. Why? The structure is quite simple, the synthesis is easy but considering easiness of syntheses of drugs with ďamphetamine coreĒ in them, this will be at most a scarce product at some RC vendors. And theyíre getting more and more lazy, this stuff is available for over 20 years. (ADDED: like we see no RC vendors sell this widely, keep in mind, this was synthesized at the end of í07 at best, I let it lay, no idea if it was used by any of people who themselves offered as ďtestersĒ, it wasnít further evaluated by us at least but itís not how it shapes us as a recreational drug that gives some wonders; yet it was left as ďmarkedĒ so something was to be done with it)

    BCP, aside from being a pharmacophore for DARI, gives plenty to think about the whole class of phencyclidine analogs. What is known about PCP and its analogs pharmacodynamics? They bind to PCP receptor, they block NMDA channel, they bind to sigma receptors, and finally they act on dopamine receptors via dopamine uptake blockade. The last one we know thanks to BCP but not only. A BCP analog in which piperidine ring was substituted by pyrrolidine ring (i.e. 1-[1-(1-benzothiphen-2-yl)cyclohexyl]pyrrolidine or I call it BCPy) binds to the cocaine receptor site being more potent than cocaine itself, it also binds to some other site on dopamine transporter. The question of stimulants (that are popular) substitution is open and comes back. If drug bosses had better counselors, they would have introduced this long time ago (itís got potency and itís legal). On the other side as there are substitution drugs for opioid addicts like methadone or buprenorphine then why shouldnít cocaine addicts get something that might help them get out of their misery? Yet we see no BCP or BCPy evaluation in human. The latter drug wonít be synthesized just for the sake of not wasting time if itís going to bring about the same thing, just stronger (here BCPy > BCP, PCPy > PCP, pyrrolidine ring might be generally more dopaminergic but on the other hand if PCPy seems to be more sedative and easier than PCP; this just proves PCP analogs chemistry is complex despite simpleness of their structures).

    b. PCP with Single groups on benzene ring

    Info: These compounds are generally just called e.g. 3-MeO-PCP or 4-MeO-PCP. I call them 3'-MeO-PCP or 4'-MeO-PCP to differentiate them from PCP substituted at cyclohexane ring.


    3'-MeO-PCP

    Report:
    It possesses activity very similar to PCP. It also proves to have some agonist effect on opioid receptors. Nonetheless, generally I consider this not much different from PCP in quality as well after trying 10mg and 15mg of HCl salt.

    3'-HO-PCP
    Report:
    Now this is a winner. 3mg of this compound taken orally as HCl salt knocked me out. This one must have some serious affinity for morphine sites because I could take less morphine. I leave it marked because its analogs may be serious opioid agonists. Officially, 3í-HO-PCP is like 10% of morphine. The only problem with this compound is that itís 8 times as potent as PCP at PCP receptor so opioid activity (although itís hundreds much more pronounced than with PCP) is little when compared. Yet I love this one.

    3'-Amino-PCP
    Report:
    Just like 3-HO-PCP this compound possesses similar properties. It should be noticed that while -OH group is a dead end (methoxy group acts similarly but is already much more weaker), a primary amine can be still modified and literature mentions such compounds being even more active than this one.

    3'-Bromo-PCP
    Report:
    There are basically no effects.

    3'-Nitro-PCP
    Report:
    As with 3-bromo-PCP there are no effects. This was just a simplest test to carry on proving any electronegative groups at position 3 make PCP compounds completely inactive.

    4'-Fluoro-PCP
    Report
    Synthesized for the sake of being sure electronegative groups are not wanted on aromatic ring but this time fluorine was put there. And voila! Here comes an active compound amazingly. Itís not very potent. There werenít enough reports to gain information about potency but it might be along the lines of 4í-MeO-PCP even.

    4'-Nitro-PCP
    Report:
    Went with the simplest method to find out if itís going to be anywhere 4'-Fluoro-PCP. Sadly, this one is not active and from other reports 4'-Bromo-PCP is also inactive so itís to be let go.

    4'-Methyl-PCP
    Report:
    This is disappointing. This drug is totally inactive.

    4'-MeO-PCP

    Report:
    This one is active. Reduced potency compared to plain PCP but an interesting material.

    4'-HO-PCP
    Report:
    Reported to be somewhat different to PCP but the potency is almost identical. Somehow alkyloxy group keeps up equally well here. 4í-HO-PCP is just stronger.

    2'-Chloro-PCP
    Report:
    Synthesized just for the sake of clarity that 2-halogenated derivatives have decreased potency, it's easily seen in ketamine. The other factor that diminishes ketamine potency is carbonyl group at position 2 in cyclohexane ring obviously. But 2í-chloro compounds give something to more analgesic profile of the drug.

    2í-MeO-PCP
    Report:
    This compound is very weak. Placing 2-methoxy group on PCE wouldnít help much either. But it might be used for lighter trips. Actually ketamine analog with methoxy group instead of chloro would be interesting. It should have similar potency.

    Conclusion: position 3 modifications are what brings any satisfying results. Some 4-substituted compounds are active but Iíll call them ďlighter PCP for people fearing PCP might make them schizophrenicĒ. Not that theyíre worse in action, some might even prefer them to regular PCP but thatís another story just like I was excited when I got my hands on 3í-HO-PCP.

    3. Piperidine ring modifications/replacements (pyrrolidine analogs in section 2)

    PCE, Eticyclidine, N-ethyl-1-phenylcyclohexanamine


    Route/dose: 15mg intranasally of HCl salt
    Report: Really strong, more potent than PCP for sure so 15mg blows my mind. The oddity is that salts of various PCP analogs are odorless, this one even as a salt smells terribly. I noticed more nausea and more bodyload. A good compound though in my opinion. Wins with PCP, itís like 1.5x PCP maybe but itís really hard to point out an equivalent dose, these are so close. 15mg is alright for me, total blast but itís amazing. If not only for that smell.

    PCM, N-methyl-1-phenylcyclohexanamine

    Route/dose: 15mg intranasally of HCl salt
    Report: Nothing else beside what I would have expected from this compound. Itís safe to say itís as potent as PCP. However, as with PCE, thereís a distinctive feel to it. Piperidine ring broken compounds have somewhat different intoxicating effects from PCP, more bodyload, different taste, different smell.

    PCA, Phencyclamine, 1-phenylcyclohexanamine
    PCPr, N-propyl-1-phenylcyclohexanamine, 1-phenyl-N-propylcyclohexanamine (IUPAC)
    PCiPr, N-isopropyl-1-phenylcyclohexanamine, 1-phenyl-N-(propan-2-yl)cyclohexanamine (IUPAC)
    PCBu, N-butyl- 1-phenylcyclohexanamine (IUPAC)


    Report: I was informed PCA must be around 50% potency of PCP. No wonder. There was found some rule here. N-ethyl is the best, a primary amine reduces potency as lengthening of the alkyl chain. N-propyl (PCPr) and N-isopropyl (PCiPr?) are already similar in potency to PCP, N-butyl (PCBu) is less potent, all in respect to PCP. N,N-dimethyl compound loses activity dramatically

    4-methyl-1-(1-phenylcyclohexyl)piperidine

    Route/dose: 15mg intranasally of HCl salt
    Report: Dose not adjusted properly, getting only light PCP-like effects.

    Route/dose: 30mg intranasally of HCl salt
    Report: Tuned in finely. The dose is finally proper. Not a completely stoning PCP-like effect but itís close. Anyway, itís a disappointment this one is only around 0.3 as strong as PCP while even plain PCA with a primary amine is 50% potency of PCP. The same goes for PCPy analogs when theyíre methylated at position 3 of pyrrolidine ring (both 3-methyl and 3,3-dimethyl are active but have somewhat reduced potency).

    4-(1-phenylcyclohexyl)morpholine


    Route/dose: 100mg insufflated of HCl salt
    Report: This is a total disappointment concerning its potency. This dose is for dissociative state lovers. The compound isnít very potent but still more potent than ketamine, yet it doesnít resemble it in respect to anesthesia or analgesia.

    4) Compounds with multiple modifications

    Well known compounds with carbonyl group at position 2 are ketamine and tiletamine. The latter being used in veterinary in combination with zolazepam or xylazine. Changes in these drugs diminish potency on weight basis but advantages are analgesic action involved and decreased duration so these compounds can be used in short-term anaesthesia. Breaking the piperidine ring, alkylating the amine mixed with putting other groups here and there yield interesting compounds.

    Tiletamine, 2-(ethylamino)-2-(thiophen-2-yl)cyclohexanone

    Route/dose: 100mg intramuscularly of HCl salt
    Report:
    The salt has no odor and appears as white crystals. First effects are noticed in 1-2 minutes as with ketamine. This is certainly stronger than ketamine. 100mg placed me in tiletamine's version of K-Hole rapidly. It behaved kind of more wild than ketamine. But there was that calming effect of ketamine still there like everything's going to be alright. Effects wore off after 1-1.5h and I felt buzzed for another 4h.

    I've injected tiletamine intravenously too but I don't advise anyone to inject intravenously any of these drugs so I won't post about it.

    BDPC. Bromadol E-4-(4-bromophenyl)-4-(dimethylamino)-1-phenethylcyclohexanol

    Intro: There was a much debate about value of aim at it as enough sources on it exist and suggest it's very strong. Knowing itís an opioid agonist and having struggled with 4-carbomethoxy-3-methylfentanyl earlier, the answer was "yes".

    Like it has been determined before N,N-dimethyl analogs are not very active and 4í-halogenated analogs were inactive but 4í-Fluoro, this shouldnít be active at all. Another thing is placing a hydroxy group anywhere on cycloxehane ring makes any compound devoid of activity. Now BDPC has a bromine at para-position, furthermore itís a N,N-dimethyl derivative and itís got one -OH group making it an alcohol. But there is an interesting group in chemistry of pharmacologically active substances Ė phenylethyl. Whatís more interesting patent papers on 4-substituted cyclohexanols have issue dates as 1980s. Having gone through some papers, we got to work. Synthesis might be time consuming but it isnít a tough one.

    Route/dose: 0.01mg (10ug) intravenously of HCl salt (ADDED: keep in mind I had a tolerance to morphine and could shoot i.v. 160mg of morphine no problem)
    Report: Kicked in quickly. Definitely has its own taste of opioid action. The dose might be raised to 15ug, this gave an overview anyway. Produces very strong analgesia, thereís an opioid euphoria but at the same time kind of different type of sedation is present. Breathing is alright for me, slowed down so might be a problem for the unexperienced. It doesnít last long and considering its power it definitely has an addictive potential. I found it not even near classic morphine high though. 15ug was tried. A person defined it as overwhelming, itching was present and it gets wondering. Itís an atypical opioid agonist with huge potency, yet it has a lot of some semi-synthetic morphine-skeleton retaining drug. There is no 3-carbon spacer between nitrogen and the aromatic ring and itís rule no. 1 for opioid activity in most known opioid, apart from fentanyls (3-carbon and nitrogen spacer) pethidines, prodines, bemidones, methadone and its analogs, and even tramadol all follow this rule.


    Ethylketamine, 2-(2-chlorophenyl)-2-(ethylamino)cyclohexanone

    Route/dose: 100mg intramuscularly of HCl salt
    Report:
    The name is obviously wrong but itís easy to know what hides there. This is just ketamine with ethyl on amine (just like in case of PCE). This obviously had an impact on drug potency. Itís not stronger by a factor of 2 or 3 but 100mg i.m. knocked me out totally and I was EthylK-holing for about an hour. So it didnít really alter duration of experience. Itís got already a broken piperidine ring, ethyl is known to be the best when it comes to potency so here it is, get an S-enantiomer and youíve got a winner.

    2-(2-methoxyphenyl)-2-(methylamino)cyclohexanone

    Route/dose: 100mg intramuscularly of HCl salt
    Report:
    This is ketamine with chloro group substituted by methoxy group. Like predicted before synthesis they are really similar. With such a dose i.m. it was easy to go K-holing. Whatís the difference here? Chlorine is very electronegative but not as much as flourine. This is yet to be examined what concrete impact has methoxy group here because from subjective effects itís really hard to tell if itís more potent or less potent. Actually I see no difference. Well, at least I canít report on any. This is as good as plain ketamine and if ketamine is easier to synthesize Ė why bother?

    _______________________________________

    Thatís all I recovered from those times. There are many things leaving me wondering when I read this now but it was a few years ago and all I remember there wasnít much time spared for PCP analogs chemistry and pharmacology.
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    #2
    Very interesting, thank you for sharing!

    I really like the format you used, it can be very hard for a lay person to find concise summaries and comparisons of novel psychoactive compounds (outside of PIHKAL and TIHKAL of course). I wish there were more reports of this kind available. If you ever feel like writing up about other rare chems, I'm sure many people on this board would really love to read it.

    Are dissociatives your favorite class of compounds in general?
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    #3
    Bluelighter adder's Avatar
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    I like them generally but I can't really say any is my drug of choice. I just worked at lab with different chemicals and there are so many different compounds in this class, I found it interesting. I have some scraps here are there of our team work but not everything. I managed to compile a file about PCP analogs and seeing some interest here in some I thought I would share this.
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    #4
    2-(2-methoxyphenyl)-2-(methylamino)cyclohexanone
    Just curious, why this one? You even say above this that substitutions at the 3 position seem to be the way to go in terms of PCP analogues. Wouldn't the 3-methoxyphenyl version be better?

    Thanks for posting, lately novel dissociatives have been an area of interest for me. Interesting stuff.
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    #5
    Greenlighter
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    Pcp Love and PCP analog love
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    #6
    Bluelighter naginnudej's Avatar
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    Great stuff. Thanks for sharing.
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    #7
    Bluelighter adder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8-12 View Post
    Just curious, why this one? You even say above this that substitutions at the 3 position seem to be the way to go in terms of PCP analogues. Wouldn't the 3-methoxyphenyl version be better?

    Thanks for posting, lately novel dissociatives have been an area of interest for me. Interesting stuff.
    There are a lot of possible compounds that could fall into the last section. Yes, position 3 in benzene ring found out to be the most interesting as some analogs brought some different action (see the simplest 3'-HO-PCP). If methoxy group were to be put on position 3, I would have done nothing with chlorine on position 2 and the point was exploring the importance of chlorine in ketamine (whether it boosts up anesthetic/analgesic activity or is it there for some other reason like decreased potency). Yet I pointed 3'-OH-PCP as superior to 3'-MeO-PCP, so I would have rather placed -OH group there if I had been to synthesize a similar compound you're thinking of.

    Maybe 2-(2-methoxyphenyl)-2-(methylamino)cyclohexanone even came up while 2-(2-chlorophenyl)-2-(ethylamino)cyclohexanone was synthesized (e.g. ketamine) and we earlier saw simple 2'-Chloro-PCP and 2'-Methoxy-PCP were kind of similar in potency so this was tried. I would love to sit at it and explore more PCP analogs. And maybe not 2-(3-methoxy... but 2-(3-hydroxy... analog of ketamine with chlorine at position 2 and ethyl group at nitrogen (this would boost up potency for sure as it's seen in tiletamine, the piperidine ring is broken, the keto group is where it is in ketamine, yet it's stronger but it must be thienyl group too why it is so - see TCP, 4x PCP).

    I didn't really put any concrete info under 2-(2-methoxyphenyl)-2-(methylamino)cyclohexanone because the majority didn't see anything special about it. I saw it was similar to ketamine in potency but I guess more insight would reveal it's less analgesic but that's a more complicated experiment and a subjective opinion isn't enough.

    The thing was at some point "were is it going?". It stopped finally at looking for some possible compounds retaining dissociative properties and having at the same time ideally "harmonious" opioid activity (4-Oxo-PCP was good but opioid activity overpowered NMDA activity, 3'-OH-PCP was good too, even stronger opioid activity but at the same time it was a strong dissociative). Approaches for golden mean stopped because we moved on from PCP analogs. I left only some of my thinking like 4-Oxo-PCE could have some stronger NMDA activity or maybe go all the way and try 4-Oxo-3'-OH-PCE - these could fill the last chapter.

    Still, like I said it was all carried out in late 2007 and was dropped by early 2008 as the team moved on opioids. So whatever the answer would be now, I feel it's like a question to "then me and the others". Now I can only reflect as I have different projects started.
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    #8
    Wonderful work man! It almost perfectly complements my own work on dissociatives ie it closes the holes I left, Great!

    My only dissent is on the 3-HO-PCP as I found it totally unpredictable (and crappy in its effects) and it must be clearly attributed to a serious bioavailability issue. But you said you've already taken Morphine.

    I know one (well, also Another one) who will wetten their pants when reading this...
    Last edited by hugo24; 21-05-2010 at 21:42.
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    #9
    Wow! Extremely impressive.

    And so much information at once. Great!
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    #10
    great thread, thanks for sharing.
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    #11
    Very nice. I was wondering what your thoughts might be on "PCP-ad" or 1-Phenyl-1-Adamantylamine which would be Amantadine with a 1-Phenyl on the cyclodecanyl ring. Amantadine/Memantine seem to be unique in that they're NMDA antagonists without the aryl group. I dont know of 1-Cyclohexylamine being an NMDA antagonist.
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    #12
    Bluelighter adder's Avatar
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    You mean such a compound if I understood it right:



    Well, it's not about cyclohexylamine (the IUPAC name will end with piperidine but it doesn't matter here). Piperidine ring is important there, you can break it but then only ethylamine attached to cyclohexane will yield a more potent compound (PCE).

    Let's consider substitutions at piperidine ring. 4-Methyl-PCP is 1/3 potency of PCP (I use my naming, 4'-Methyl-PCP would be a substitution at benzene ring). Not good. Piperidine ring replaced with pyrrolidine gives a compound slightly more potent (PCPy, there you can have even 3,3-dimethyl-PCPy but it's at most as potent as PCP, 3-methyl-PCPy will be somewhat PCP potency so that should be less potent I guess). Azetidine ring is not good so the rule "the smaller the ring, the more potent compound is" isn't right here.

    There was 1-(1-phenylcyclohexyl)azepane synthesized but it was about PCP potency so I imagine 1-(1-phenylcyclohexyl)azocane would have a too big ring maybe to be active at all and if it is active, I'm just sure it's a lot less active than PCP.

    Now, considering your proposition, amantadine is an active compound on its own for some reason, I guess. Amine group "sticks" out of tricyclo[3.3.1.1{3,7}]decane. Adamantane isn't of any use in medicine on its own, it's just its derivatives. Amantadine is actually a weak NMDA antagonist, NMDA antagonism serves as some "booster" for at least a little more dopamine, I guess, its use as a antiparkinsonian isn't well understood (well it's used off-label too but it's got quite a lot of effects in CNS). But here it would more of amantadine derivative than anything else and that 1-(1-phenyl)cyclohexyl group on amine would be just too bulky for it to act similarly to amantadine or rimantadine. But if it's not the case... Just from looking at its structure, it's seen it's a secondary amine then with a crazy group on it. I doubt that it would be active at all. It can be left as PCA, a primary amine, it's half as active as PCP but n-butyl on nitrogen causes the structure to be already less active than PCP. Uniting two compounds doesn't always work actually. Synthesizing both adamantane and then amantadine isn't difficult but the analog wouldn't be a winner, I'd imagine. Never really thought of such a complicated analog of PCP. Furan-2-yl instead of thien-2-yl - yes, but it's quite simple but I don't know the outcome (well, furan-2-yl instead of phenyl or even thien-2-yl is better in N-(Ar)ethylmorphinan analogs but It's a different story).
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    #13
    Bluelighter amanitadine's Avatar
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    wow adder thank you...you've given us all some serious wet dream fodder
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    #14
    www.mzos.hr/svibor/1/07/187/rad_e.htm

    1,1-PhenylAdamantyl amine in an artical related to phencyclidine protecting against radiation, not sure about how it effects NDMA??
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    #15
    Bluelighter
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    Thanks for posting. Amazing.
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    #16
    Bluelight Crew fastandbulbous's Avatar
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    Amantadine is actually a weak NMDA antagonist, NMDA antagonism serves as some "booster" for at least a little more dopamine, I guess, its use as a antiparkinsonian isn't well understood (well it's used off-label too but it's got quite a lot of effects in CNS).

    It's also used as a prophylactic drug against influenza A. A very weird drug indeed.

    The first post does indeed go a long way towards filling in the holes re arylcyclohexylamines and means I'm not left with unanswered questions


    I know one (well, also Another one) who will wetten their pants when reading this...
    Yes I'm on my third pair of underpants already!


    PS I'd back hugo's comments about 3-hydroxyPCP. I also found it produced very uncomfortable muscle tension that lasted a couple of days (probably from spinal actions as some opioids can cause clonic/tonic seizures in overdose as well as depressing breathing)


    PPs BTCP will not get offical trials in humans, most probably because like other benzothiophenes substituted in the 2 or 3 position, they're hepatotoxic to some degree
    Last edited by fastandbulbous; 27-05-2010 at 23:22.
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    #17
    Bluelighter adder's Avatar
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    Yeah, I knew of that stuff with at least 2-substituted benzothiophenes (zileuton for instance). I wonder if benzofuran instead would do the job. Anyway, substituting the aromatic ring as an objective was fulfilled with getting thien-2-yl group instead of phenyl, benzothiophen-2-yl ended there because of unique affinities ratio of BTCP. But I wish there were no popular drugs being sold every day with hepatotoxicity too.

    Sure 3-HO-PCP is unique in effects too. It is half as effective as morphine in analgesia but at the same time it might be even up to 8 times as potent as a dissociative. And concerning possible convulsions, well it's not pleasurable when one's got to worry firstly because it's an opioid and secondly because phencyclidines lower convulsant threshold too. But keep in mind I'd been addicted to opioids and benzodiazepines. Being on clonazepam probably also let me take 1600mg of tramadol prescribed for withdrawal like last winter (might be funny but I say ridiculous but it's an off-topic story) with no problems at all (beside the problem that it didn't help anyway and I came back to what I wanted to run away from).
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    #18
    Bluelight Crew fastandbulbous's Avatar
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    I wish there were no popular drugs being sold every day with hepatotoxicity too.

    Like that hideous, officially sanctioned drug, ethanol? Being in binge drinking central (the UK), I'd welcome a reduction in availability as it's a horrible sight watching what it does to people of a weekend...
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    #19
    Good read man. Keep up the great work
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    #20
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    Very intriguing. This post gave me a 'kid in a candy store' mixed with 'going wine tasting' sort of feeling.
    All curious people are philosophers. All seekers of meaning are spiritual. P&S
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    #21
    You have 3 different posts for 4-Methyl-PCP, one is just as if not more potent, one is inactive, and the other is less active.
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    #22
    Bluelight Crew Jamshyd's Avatar
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    Nice, but the apparent focus on potency over anything else was somewhat disappointing.

    I would have liked to hear more of 2'-Chloro-PCP and N-Ethyl(nor)ketamine

    You say 2'chloro-pcp is more "analgesic". In your observation, does the 2'-chloro group add *something* that is only present in Ketamine of all the ones mentioned?

    I am trying to figure out if Ketamine is that out-of-this-world (no pun) unique in terms of SARs or if there is some kind of pattern, as I and several others seem to agree that simply sticking a 2-Keto group doesn't make a drug ketamine-like (methoxetamine and 2-keto-PCE both had more in common with PCP than they did with K).

    But yeah, I really dream of trying (racemic - I really don't get people's obsession with S-isomers) N-Ethyl-norketamine one day, just to get another clue as to the above questions as it seems very few people understand just what this unique effect I am talking about is. I could really care less about potency, but then again I don't manufacture or drugs.

    Other than that, Rolicyclidine appears very interesting. I'd love to try its 2'-Chloro-2-Keto analogue .
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    #23
    Greenlighter
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    Silly question, but why are some of these more interesting chems (and from similar threads) available?
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    #24
    Bluelight Crew Jamshyd's Avatar
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    Actually the majority of the stuff in that list is NOT available and was probably only tried by one or two people ever. To my knowledge, I've actually never heard of anyone trying most of these until I read this post.

    That said, there has been a LOT of talk about arylcyclohexamines for ages. It was inevitable that one or two of them might pop up.
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    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by (zonk) View Post
    You have 3 different posts for 4-Methyl-PCP, one is just as if not more potent, one is inactive, and the other is less active.
    yeah, one is 4 methyl on the piperidine, the other one on the phenyl, the other one on the cyclohexyl
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