NMDA antagonists for tolerance, a collection of the evidence and anecdotal reports

[thikal]

I'm at 20mg memantine /day. Tried GBL yesterday and was disapointed. I wasn't especting all my tolerance to drop in one week at 20mg, Will try at 40mg/day anyways! Have a nice day guys (and girls)

edit: one of my all time favourite threads!

This thread is like when you are in the childhood and someone say to you "you can eat all this candy and chocolate and never being sick!" But don't forget that moderation is the key!

 

[MeDieViL]

I'm at 20mg memantine /day. Tried GBL yesterday and was disapointed. I wasn't especting all my tolerance to drop in one week at 20mg, Will try at 40mg/day anyways! Have a nice day guys (and girls)


This thread is like when you are in the childhood and someone say to you "you can eat all this candy and chocolate and never being sick!" But don't forget that moderation is the key!

Thx for your update, still gotta respond to your pm srry for stalling so much.

I think i was taking 30mg memantine a day when i took 100ml of GBL a week without any tolerance, definatly more then 20mg tough, also for amp tolerance it seems it only really works well at 30mg or more.

 

[MeDieViL]

How much of an issue tolerance to DXM is?

NMDA receptors do upregulate in response to nmda antagonists however this is limited, they wont upregulate for 100% so they will allways stay functional and work for drug tolerance, the only issue may be rebound accelerated tolerance after you stop taking them untill they are back downregulated.

 

[thikal]

Thx for your update, still gotta respond to your pm srry for stalling so much.

I think i was taking 30mg memantine a day when i took 100ml of GBL a week without any tolerance, definatly more then 20mg tough, also for amp tolerance it seems it only really works well at 30mg or more.

No worries Yes I understood that the problem was the low dose memantine. (I wanted to try at different dosage, and you are right when you say that 20mg/day isn't enough to block/reverse tolerance totally, in me!) Tomorrow, after my last fuck*** exam will increase dosage to 40mg/day.

Actually, I feel a bit slow (bought a box of codeine 2 days ago and I gave half the money needed and waited like a fool in the clouds^^) but this is easy fixed with some running and piracetam. I definitely feel some mood lift, but not all the time it's funny (I'm not depressive so it's difficult to say)

Does somebody know if I will be hurl in the sky with low doses AMT or 2C-D and 40mg memantine/day in the blood? I'm not an experienced psychonaut yet so I'm a bit afraid by some unexpected potentialisation, I fear for my poor ass hole hehe^^

 

[MeDieViL]

Hurl in the sky? gues you mean in a differend world or something, but you should be fine, depends on what you want to take 2CD for, i used to take it in low doses, like 10mg i think where it just gave me euphoria, amazing synergy with GBL btw, was taking the g, 2CD combo every evening for a week or 2 weeks where it gave me mdma like euphoria without any mania (wasnt acting weird like high on amp or mdma) was also on memantine.

I cant promise you memantine will reverse tolerance too to gbl, just know it prevented it from occuring for me in the past, there's a chance it would also reverse it but il have to wait for your experience first.

 

[thikal]

Hurl in the sky? gues you mean in a differend world or something, but you should be fine, depends on what you want to take 2CD for, i used to take it in low doses, like 10mg i think where it just gave me euphoria, amazing synergy with GBL btw, was taking the g, 2CD combo every evening for a week or 2 weeks where it gave me mdma like euphoria without any mania (wasnt acting weird like high on amp or mdma) was also on memantine.

I cant promise you memantine will reverse tolerance too to gbl, just know it prevented it from occuring for me in the past, there's a chance it would also reverse it but il have to wait for your experience first.

Yes shot in the sky, tripped to death, I don't know, "perché a mort"^^ Anyways you understood Hohoho really interested by what you said with your 2CD and GBL combo, will try it soon! For GBL, i used it far too much and lost all the euphoria. Yesterday, took 3 doses and at the last one I was put again in a dirty mood, but I had to take just 1,6mL instead of 2,8 few mouths later. I will report if euphoria came back at 40mg memantine. I hope so if it can work with benzos, might take some time, the junky speculation/hope hehe. If not, I will order some more and try 80mg like you I want to be totally intolerant :D

 

[MeDieViL]

Hopefully it will work as well for you as it did for me, every evening it was like mindblowing euphoria and at the morning you woke up without any comedown, just refreshed like you didnt take anything lol.

Haha well the one that tries is the one that wins.

 

[thikal]

Hopefully it will work as well for you as it did for me, every evening it was like mindblowing euphoria and at the morning you woke up without any comedown, just refreshed like you didnt take anything lol.

Haha well the one that tries is the one that wins.

Sound fucking great hehe! My girl friend already hate you because I:

speak too much on stupid combos and NDMA bullshit

Magikal kat if you're still here, can you develop mixing memantine and DXM? Memantine dosing all the time, and DXM to add when you take too much of a dope in few times? You said that they work differently, combining two different mechanisms MIGHT create a synergy to decrease tolerance?

In my next memantine order I will ad some acamprosatet

Such a beautiful synergy with G and 2C-D, music sound extremely great, vivid. Great combo, thanks mate for the tip hehehehe love you already

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

Personally, I've made an interesting discovery by combining high doses of L-Theanine (itself an NMDA antag) 300-600mg at a time with the usual dose of DXM (the equivalent of 60mg at a time, half HBr and half Polystirex) and lots of magnesium citrate (600mg-1g). The Theanine massively potentiates the DXM to the point where on the first night I tried the combo with my usual dose of Marinol (45mg), I found myself borderline 'tripping' from a mere 60mg DXM!

This combo seems to work far better than any of them alone, though the magnesium may or may not be a necessary element.

Thanks a lot for this! I've tried combining 200mg L-theanine with 60mg DXM, then a hit of marijuana, and found this a very enjoyable and therapeutic combination. I'd love to see a clinical trial of this combination (minus the marijuana) for major depression.

60mg seems to be something of a 'sweet spot' for DXM, I've discovered. It's the highest dose at which I feel perfectly functional, and get no negative aftereffects, but the lowest dose at which I feel some mental effects from it. I actually can study on this dose, and hold onto the material quite well. (On 90mg, forget about it!).

Adding the theanine makes the DXM feel a bit more like very low dose ketamine. I think this is not only the added NMDA antagonism, but also the fact that, just like k, theanine enhances dopamine, which DXM doesn't.

At higher (reacreational or visionary) doses of DXM, I've experienced an absolutely amazing afterglow, that feels somewhat like low-dose amphetamine, followed by a crash, that leaves me emotionally flattened an depressed, not unlike an amphetamine crash. My working theory is that high-dose DXM upregulates DA receptors so much (the afterglow), that it precipitates a rebound downregulation (the crash), leaving your CNS with lower DA tone than before taking DXM, and defeating the whole purpose of taking DXM as a DA enhancer.

This is getting a bit off topic, but I'm finding more and more that my dopamine system can't be cheated. Increasing my dopaminergic tone far above its natural set point, no matter the mechanism (amphetamines, NMDARAs, DA precursors, etc.), will inevitably lead to my body yanking those DA receptors and leaving me in an anhedonic state. Perhaps 60mg of DXM is just below the threshold of DA enhancement where this rebound downregulation happens.

 

[MeDieViL]

Such a beautiful synergy with G and 2C-D, music sound extremely great, vivid. Great combo, thanks mate for the tip hehehehe love you already

Haha that combo is fucking win, and with mem you can take it like on a regular basis, kinda simular as G, theres pretty much no comedown and shit, its like amazing stuff haha

 

[MeDieViL]

A mate of me using a combination of memantine, DXM and acamprosate for amphetamine tolerance, and just noted that after he ran out of acamprosate, tolerance started developping to amp faster, it seems they all synergise, so im going on a simular combo and experiment a bit with this. Ive restarted memantine yesterday, added in DXM today, will add in acamprosate when i'm back home (currently with the girlfriend).

Also i think im noting some G tolerance reversal but its only minimal, will need to raise he mem dose for some better effects i think (currently at 20mg mem a day and 60mg DXM 3 times a day).

 

[MeDieViL]

I gues ill add in theanine too looking at the positive reports.

 

[MeDieViL]

Thanks a lot for this! I've tried combining 200mg L-theanine with 60mg DXM, then a hit of marijuana, and found this a very enjoyable and therapeutic combination. I'd love to see a clinical trial of this combination (minus the marijuana) for major depression.

60mg seems to be something of a 'sweet spot' for DXM, I've discovered. It's the highest dose at which I feel perfectly functional, and get no negative aftereffects, but the lowest dose at which I feel some mental effects from it. I actually can study on this dose, and hold onto the material quite well. (On 90mg, forget about it!).

Adding the theanine makes the DXM feel a bit more like very low dose ketamine. I think this is not only the added NMDA antagonism, but also the fact that, just like k, theanine enhances dopamine, which DXM doesn't.

At higher (reacreational or visionary) doses of DXM, I've experienced an absolutely amazing afterglow, that feels somewhat like low-dose amphetamine, followed by a crash, that leaves me emotionally flattened an depressed, not unlike an amphetamine crash. My working theory is that high-dose DXM upregulates DA receptors so much (the afterglow), that it precipitates a rebound downregulation (the crash), leaving your CNS with lower DA tone than before taking DXM, and defeating the whole purpose of taking DXM as a DA enhancer.

This is getting a bit off topic, but I'm finding more and more that my dopamine system can't be cheated. Increasing my dopaminergic tone far above its natural set point, no matter the mechanism (amphetamines, NMDARAs, DA precursors, etc.), will inevitably lead to my body yanking those DA receptors and leaving me in an anhedonic state. Perhaps 60mg of DXM is just below the threshold of DA enhancement where this rebound downregulation happens.

Does this crash also occur if you keep on taking a NMDA antagonist? Like would it be possible to take a recreational dxm dose, upregulate dopamine quite a bit, and then "lock" that upregulation with a proper daily nmda antagonist regime.

 

[thikal]

I took a tablet of 200mg tramadol (not the instant realise but the "long release", I don't know the write word sorry) to lessen the little crash of MDPPP (an excuse to take some opiate hehe). I felt a great mood lift thanks to tramadol like I didn't feel yet at this dosage. I used to take more than 700mg tramadol IR and just don't really feel euphoria, 200mg tramdol "long realise" never felt that way. Beautiful, beautiful...

I think that memantine or an other NDMA antagonist is a nice weapon to prevent dependence occurring! A beautiful reduction risk tool! Harm reduction power!

A mate of me using a combination of memantine, DXM and acamprosate for amphetamine tolerance, and just noted that after he ran out of acamprosate, tolerance started developping to amp faster, it seems they all synergise, so im going on a simular combo and experiment a bit with this. Ive restarted memantine yesterday, added in DXM today, will add in acamprosate when i'm back home (currently with the girlfriend).

Also i think im noting some G tolerance reversal but its only minimal, will need to raise he mem dose for some better effects i think (currently at 20mg mem a day and 60mg DXM 3 times a day).

Thanks for the info! I feel some potential here!

 

[MeDieViL]

Ive also got tramadol's long release at home, still dont really understand them tough, have got the impression they constantly release a bit and arent like the amp long release things that release a second dose several hours later? Also what is the max dose of the trams slow release, is it also 400mg and after that you go over the seizure treshold? Ive got benzo's now (the beatifull etizolam to be exact, the only benzo that actually synergizes with stims, kinda like g instead of making me stumble around and letting me feel like i took a lower dose of stims like all other benzo's). enough rambling, just didnt find a clear answer with searching online haha.

Also it was recently discovered tramadol wasnt a ssri but a serotonine releaser, dxm appears to synergize with mdma, would be cool if we disover the same of dxm haha, because it doesnt inhibit mdma like prozac and co i think it MIGHT be a possibility, haha enough of my wishfull thinking.
DXM is interesting stuff anyway.

 

[thikal]

I think I'm actually tripping a little bit on memantine. Coudn't take my dosage yesterday and took 40mg 5 hours ago. (it was the second day on 40mg). I took 200mg tramadol and 300mg codeine for a nice opiate buzz, but the buzz isn't opiate like hehe. Not in a badway anyways, feel really good, heard some strange noise all the time, I think it's the little dissociation. I took some piracetam too see if the effects decline (don't want the effect to go down, but it's for science haha :D )

 

[superluminality]

I think I'm actually tripping a little bit on memantine. Coudn't take my dosage yesterday and took 40mg 5 hours ago. (it was the second day on 40mg). I took 200mg tramadol and 300mg codeine for a nice opiate buzz, but the buzz isn't opiate like hehe. Not in a badway anyways, feel really good, heard some strange noise all the time, I think it's the little dissociation. I took some piracetam too see if the effects decline (don't want the effect to go down, but it's for science haha :D )

Interesting....it was/is my impression that the *-racetams hold the potential to *increase* opioid tolerance (possibly also some others such as benzos, but probably not to, say, amphetamines or methylphenidate).....watch those combos carefully, lots of unexplored terrain there -- which means both great potential and great risk.....

 

[MeDieViL]

I think I'm actually tripping a little bit on memantine. Coudn't take my dosage yesterday and took 40mg 5 hours ago. (it was the second day on 40mg). I took 200mg tramadol and 300mg codeine for a nice opiate buzz, but the buzz isn't opiate like hehe. Not in a badway anyways, feel really good, heard some strange noise all the time, I think it's the little dissociation. I took some piracetam too see if the effects decline (don't want the effect to go down, but it's for science haha :D )

Your in the adaptation phase mate, it can make you a little dissociated or act weird because of bad brainfog haha but should pass soon, piracetam MAY interfere with its tolerance property's however it does work good to buffer out the initial side effects, i jumped from 40 to 80mg mem once in one day with 20 gram piracetam to buffer out the dissociation lol (dont try at home). Mem still gave me double vision at first and made me dizzy, in the end had to cut down to 60mg tough (wich actually turned out to be a wonderfull dose for me).

 

[MeDieViL]

Interesting....it was/is my impression that the *-racetams hold the potential to *increase* opioid tolerance (possibly also some others such as benzos, but probably not to, say, amphetamines or methylphenidate).....watch those combos carefully, lots of unexplored terrain there -- which means both great potential and great risk.....

We know the racetams initially greatly potentiate many drugs and bring tolerance back down, however on the racetams tolerance develops as fast again as without them, so they are like a temporary solution, i would be interested to see how they play out long term with nmda antagonists, its indeed unexplored domain, with their positive modulation of NMDA, there's indeed great potential but also great risk.

 

[thikal]

I never felt that piracetam decrease tolerance to any drugs. It's really great when you coming down stimulant binge, but I didn't feel that it potentiate them (according to me).

Oh and the adaptation phase is a nice feeling, I just have to take low dose of some random opiate to potentiate the "adaptation phase" effetcs hehe. I feel baseligne this morning anyways, it's end^^