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Baclofen (Lioresal) - Miracle Drug or Crap

rattlegrass

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Apr 18, 2010
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When I came down with Transverse Myelitis, the very first medication I was give was baclofen to manage spasticity. I've tried it on three diferent occassions and every time I've come away from the experience with the opinion that it is the shittyest drug on the market. The side effects are worse than any potential benefit. Now there's this French Doctor that claims it's a miricle drug that cured his alcholholism. He claims it will cure practically any addiction. Even bulimia.
http://www.olivierameisen.com/en/book

If what this guy says is true, I'm in hog heaven. Not only am I a spasticity sufferer, but I'm currently on antabuse for alchoholism. I could concevably replace 4 of the 5 medications I take with Baclofen (provigil, Methylphenidate, antabuse, clonazepam). If it sounds too good to be true it probably is.
I ordered his book from amazon.com today. But in the mean time I was wondering if anyone out there has found a worthwhlie use for the drug.
I probably didn't take it long enough for the side effects to subside for one thing. But I would be interested in hearing if anyone out there has had any positive experiences with it or tips on dosing it properly. It seems to have a very wide range of dosage based on individual biological makup.
Thanks
 
Well, baclofen is very well known drug of abuse here in Russia, it is indeed can substitute for alcohol. But it is very dangeroous drug to abuse and even to take it for a long time, because baclfoen withdrawals are associated with high mortality.
 
Be warned


  • Yes there is good logic in efficacy in what he is talking about (can vouch)

  • Yes there is equally MAJOR concern about withdrawal issues (can vouch)

BEFORE:
Done serious serious long term 24/7 GBL (+co-incided with benzo) withdrawal (2 weeks of complete living hell) , Being the keen experimenter (I am on bluelight you get the picture) had tried baclofen out of interest at various doses - had concluded shitty drug, side effects, long effects in general. had concluded kind of like diphenhydramine - possibly useful, kind of gets you a shitty high but essentially rubish.

THEN: Recently tried baclofen very high doses for what ended up a LONG period of time. Thats when the effects the author describes do kick in.

PROBLEM: Mistakedly (more by accident), thought I can one day go without, surprised at how utterly horific the sudden abrupt withdrawal syndrome was (sudden realisation that this was something not too disimilar from gbl). Titration was definately the key! Much more so over benzos (my logic with benzos has always been get the pain over with quicker so I can start feeling normal quicker), there is something about titration with baclofen (maybe like gbl, dopamine rebound, possible unblocking of PEA, or something! dont take my word for it, I haven't looked in to it but titration definately works)

Fundamental difference between GBL and baclofen is

1) dont need ever increasing doses for sleep (which push up the daily doses), also just tend to feel sleepy anyway
2) half-life which is probably an explanation of reason 1, but in no way do you end up popping the equivalent of gel caps every hour just to survive.
3) withdrawal doesn't really kick in till maybe 12/18/24 hours of missing dose.

Mark my words though, if you have been using high doses for prolonged periods stopping abruptly will be HARSH! (not trying to over dramatise it, admittidly nothing like gbl) but I decided I am seriosuly done with that kind of horrible dependancy on a chemical. Baclofen comes as 10mg tablets, the doses you end up needing for his scheme means large volumes of tablets, you would end up e.g needing (16x14 = 224) tablets for just a two week holiday somewhere, god forbide what would happen if you misplaced them somewhere! Try explaining in spanish to a holiday dr, please prescribe me 224 baclofen tablets and I will stop shaking, feeling paranoid and generally being at risk of seizure and collapse!

His book also reminds me of the way GHB was touted as a cure for alcoholism. Sure maybe, quite possible but until such treatments are widely available and recognised by mainstream medicine, such chemical dependancies are troublesome to say the least.

Unfortunately this wont become mainstay treatment programme for a) withdrawals suck b) generic available for donkeys years c) no one has gabaB agonists ready to patent (and if they did they would have to get through the numerous FDA hurdels of proving it could not be abused d) there is an element of "getting high" in it, the public aren't allowed, they must spend their money on shitty alcohol which is safe and taxed!

Best we can maybe hope for (which would also definately rate highly in my INTEREST category) would be some kind of partial GabaB agonist. Would be very interesting.:D (possible query over GabaB's effects on seizures though I guess, but still VERY INTERESTED
 
Last edited:

  • Yes there is good logic in efficacy in what he is talking about (can vouch)

  • Yes there is equally MAJOR concern about withdrawal issues (can vouch)

BEFORE:
Done serious serious long term 24/7 GBL (+co-incided with benzo) withdrawal (2 weeks of complete living hell) , Being the keen experimenter (I am on bluelight you get the picture) had tried baclofen out of interest at various doses - had concluded shitty drug, side effects, long effects in general. had concluded kind of like diphenhydramine - possibly useful, kind of gets you a shitty high but essentially rubish.

THEN: Recently tried baclofen very high doses for what ended up a LONG period of time. Thats when the effects the author describes do kick in.

PROBLEM: Mistakedly (more by accident), thought I can one day go without, surprised at how utterly horific the sudden abrupt withdrawal syndrome was (sudden realisation that this was something not too disimilar from gbl). Titration was definately the key! Much more so over benzos (my logic with benzos has always been get the pain over with quicker so I can start feeling normal quicker), there is something about titration with baclofen (maybe like gbl, dopamine rebound, possible unblocking of PEA, or something! dont take my word for it, I haven't looked in to it but titration definately works)

Fundamental difference between GBL and baclofen is

1) dont need ever increasing doses for sleep (which push up the daily doses), also just tend to feel sleepy anyway
2) half-life which is probably an explanation of reason 1, but in no way do you end up popping the equivalent of gel caps every hour just to survive.
3) withdrawal doesn't really kick in till maybe 12/18/24 hours of missing dose.

Mark my words though, if you have been using high doses for prolonged periods stopping abruptly will be HARSH! (not trying to over dramatise it, admittidly nothing like gbl) but I decided I am seriosuly done with that kind of horrible dependancy on a chemical. Baclofen comes as 10mg tablets, the doses you end up needing for his scheme means large volumes of tablets, you would end up e.g needing (16x14 = 224) tablets for just a two week holiday somewhere, god forbide what would happen if you misplaced them somewhere! Try explaining in spanish to a holiday dr, please prescribe me 224 baclofen tablets and I will stop shaking, feeling paranoid and generally being at risk of seizure and collapse!

His book also reminds me of the way GHB was touted as a cure for alcoholism. Sure maybe, quite possible but until such treatments are widely available and recognised by mainstream medicine, such chemical dependancies are troublesome to say the least.

Unfortunately this wont become mainstay treatment programme for a) withdrawals suck b) generic available for donkeys years c) no one has gabaB agonists ready to patent (and if they did they would have to get through the numerous FDA hurdels of proving it could not be abused d) there is an element of "getting high" in it, the public aren't allowed, they must spend their money on shitty alcohol which is safe and taxed!

Best we can maybe hope for (which would also definately rate highly in my INTEREST category) would be some kind of partial GabaB agonist. Would be very interesting.:D (possible query over GabaB's effects on seizures though I guess, but still VERY INTERESTED

Is there an a and b gaba receptor site? I'm currently taking pregabalin. It increases gaba availability. Not sure which site.
 
phenibut is a GABAb aganist I believe. Just got a bottle of it but haven't tried it yet.
 
I heard somewhere that this drug works similar to GHB works on modulating the GABA-B receptor. I was giving this shit by my doctor ages ago i didn't think it was recreational.... is it? Could this help with benzo withdrawals or GHB withdrawals? Does anyone have any experience using it for that?
 
See the Drugs in The Media forum. The article about the french doctor is posted there.

Baclofen is no more (and maybe even a bit less) effective in treating Alcoholism than Benzodiazepines. What it does is simply allow one to get more drunk from less alcohol. It does not cure alcoholism, merely substitutes one addiction for 1.5 addiction that is less toxic but just as addictive.

Baclofen does develop physical dependence, and while not as severe as benzos, it is deffinitely there. Even when baclofen is prescribed for its legit use as a muscle relaxant the bottle comes with a warning saying to taper down and not to stop taking it abruptly.

Phenibut is an analogue of baclofen. It is not as powerful a muscle-relaxant though people say it works better for anxiety. It, too, is physically addictive. For me, phenibut does absolutely nothing, but I have a very high tolerance to all GABAerics.

I speak from experience with all four drugs.

Re: GHB withdrawal - these drugs might help a tiny bit, but they are not worth getting addicted to in order to get off GHB. GHB works on a lot more receptors than just Gaba-B. Its withdrawal is a combination of several things, and certainly not a joke.

While I never tried it, some people claim that Diphenhydramine does a lot to help with GHB withdrawals due to its anticholinergic action. I personally found Pregabalin (Lyrica) to work quite well for GHB withdrawal.
 
Interestingly baclofen withdrawal was a bitch to say the least, TITRATION is VERY much key (much much more so than benzos).

Interestingly (as kind of noted above), I mistakedly thought massive doses of benzos would help me quite baclofen cold turkey (attempt number ONE) - WRONG! they if anything made it far far worse. Please take note, if anything made it far worse, most likely because they were acting on gabaA and just unbalancing the whole gabaA/gabaB thing anyway.

The one drug that I can take and go without baclofen all day and night - surprising (as kind of noted above) is pregabalin (and not really gabapentin) can go almost without noticing all day about baclofen, amazing stuff, really. WISH WISH I had it when I was desperately trying to get myself of GBL, fairly sure it would have made it possible for me to do it alone. Ah well, maybe it was meant to be...

But yeah take note, addicted to baclofen and need a quick fix - Pregabalin! :)
 
phenibut is a GABAb aganist I believe. Just got a bottle of it but haven't tried it yet.

He said pregablin (lyrica) which works on GABA-b.
Wondering how this med might help with my barb withdrawals. Been using heaps of gabapentin and lyrica which is holding me together
 
Interestingly baclofen withdrawal was a bitch to say the least, TITRATION is VERY much key (much much more so than benzos).

Interestingly (as kind of noted above), I mistakedly thought massive doses of benzos would help me quite baclofen cold turkey (attempt number ONE) - WRONG! they if anything made it far far worse. Please take note, if anything made it far worse, most likely because they were acting on gabaA and just unbalancing the whole gabaA/gabaB thing anyway.

The one drug that I can take and go without baclofen all day and night - surprising (as kind of noted above) is pregabalin (and not really gabapentin) can go almost without noticing all day about baclofen, amazing stuff, really. WISH WISH I had it when I was desperately trying to get myself of GBL, fairly sure it would have made it possible for me to do it alone. Ah well, maybe it was meant to be...

But yeah take note, addicted to baclofen and need a quick fix - Pregabalin! :)

Hmm thats interesting i didn't think it was such a strong med you must have had a fair bit over some time, though everyone's different.
I think GBL would make you feel fine while you are on it but you end up with a much worse and stronger addiction. Plus with G u gotta re-dose many times a day; you want a long acting drug.

I wonder how strong the chance of seizure is cause that is dangerous and should be your main concern. Look into Antiepileptic Drugs like:

Narrow-spectrum AEDs: Broad-spectrum AEDs:
- phenytoin (Dilantin) - valproic acid (Depakote)
- phenobarbital - lamotrigine (Lamictal)
- carbamazepine (Tegretol) - topiramate (Topamax)
- oxcarbazepine (Trileptal) - zonisamide (Zonegran)
- gabapentin (Neurontin) - levetiracetam (Keppra)
- pregabalin (Lyrica) - clonazepam (Klonopin)
- lacosamide (Vimpat) - rufinamide (Banzel)
- vigabatrin (Sabril)

Phenibut is a week drug thats why its legal stick to the above drugs. The best bet is to have a drug from each column.
 
^ Baclofen is indeed a week drug in and off itself, but just like its analogue Phenibut, it will STILL cause withdrawals that are actually much more intense than you'd expect from a drug whose main effect is so subtle.

p.s. I wouldn't go off recommending these drugs like that. Phener mentioned that he has a problem with benzos, so that crosses out clonazepam. Vigabatrin is not available in all countries. Most of the others are either very expensive, or very cheap with a huge side-effect/toxicity profile.
 
I used baclofen for GHB withdrawal after a long period of abuse. It stops all the bad symptoms and sometimes it felt like I was still high on GHB. Don't use it for too long however because you will just switch one addiction to another.
 
Vigabatrin sounds NASTY, looks like it displays extreme likelihood of ocular toxicity, pathological changes occuring in almost half of users after not that long.

Tiagabine looks to be much safer, wouldn't mind trying that one myself, but it would be a cold day in hell before I took vigabatrin.
 
Hmm. What about nipecotic acid? I wonder if esters of it would be effective...
 
i had baclofen scripted to me a couple months ago, IMO it was completely worthless. It did absolutely nothing for me, even at 120mgs i didnt even have an altered state of mind. that shit sucks. now im on cyclobenzaprine and thattttt is pretty good.
 
just read today a study that shows single high dose selegiline can extinguish dopaminergic response to GABA addictions. Will try to find reference and post
 
rattlegrass said:
Is there an a and b gaba receptor site? I'm currently taking pregabalin. It increases gaba availability. Not sure which site.
drug_FUCKED said:
He said pregablin (lyrica) which works on GABA-b.
Pregabalin works via a COMPLETELY different mechanism of action (MOA).
  • Increases glutamic acid decarboxylase activity (conversion of glutamate to GABA) but some unseen mechanism
  • Binds to alpha-2-delta subunit of calcium channels
It's structurally similar to GABA but it's MOA is not fully understood.
drug_FUCKED said:
I heard somewhere that this drug works similar to GHB works on modulating the GABA-B receptor. I was giving this shit by my doctor ages ago i didn't think it was recreational.... is it?
Baclofen is NOT recreational AT ALL. The discussed effects are more clinical (think antidepressant of the GABA-ergics, takes time to kick in IF AT ALL) In fact "recreational" doses of baclofen are just dangerous and stupid.

jamshyd said:
Phener mentioned that he has a problem with benzos, so that crosses out clonazepam. Vigabatrin is not available in all countries. Most of the others are either very expensive, or very cheap with a huge side-effect/toxicity profile.
never a problem with benzos ON/OFF sometimes but certainly not a problem. ?(not sure where I indicated this in post) As regards vigabatrin - wouldn't touch it EVER if only for the retina eye damage side effect

psychihelp said:
Never try Baclofen if u wanna feel good , its a GABA-B selective agonist - that'll relax muscle spasms due to injury, but gaba-b agonism INHIBITS AND SLOWS DOWN DOPAMINERGIC transmission in pleasure centres of the brain. also seroternergic neurotransmission slows down and a inhibited drowsy dysphoric state arises the higher u dose. and that's all this doctor can remember from the fat books I read long ago. There are hundreds of better drugs for u're conditions. It's 2010 now.

NEVER try baclofen for the reasons given (withdrawal, sourcing and potentially limited information. )

As regards "slows down dopaminergic transmission" - sorry not buying it. Think Beta-blockers for heart failure - sometime dampening down of systems can improve them long term. [I'm not basing this on fact but theory] E.g some dopaminergics are actually counter-productive in feeling happy/pleasure centres. Also baclofen so the theory goes blocks the addictive pathways (the whole point of the recent hype) - dopamine agonists + parkinsons drugs do quite the opposite they enhance addictions (common side effects - gambling, sex addiction etc etc)

gladiolus said:
just read today a study that shows single high dose selegiline can extinguish dopaminergic response to GABA addictions. Will try to find reference and post

YES please find reference! very interested!
 
Ok I have a shitload of baclofen and a shitload of gabapentin, which one is more recreational, and do either of them potentiate benzos?? I never tried GHB although I have done all other club drugs, and I have also read that GHB is almost similar to BACLOFEN and have read that 80mg + is extremely sedating and can be a good feeling. BUT i keep reading about this sever withdrawl, how long does it take to kick in? I took 40 mg baclofen last night and today my pupils were huge and I felt like I was instantly withdrawling from clonazepam. What is the deal? I need help on what benefits I can get from baclofen/gabapentin+benzos. Someone please help. I have a big ass bottle of baclofen and have been taking around 1200 mgs of neurontin a night.
Also I read that 1200mg + a night at bedtime is a protocol for amphetamine withdrawl. Anyone else hear anything about this?? I would hate to waste such huge supplies of pharmaceautical.s Also I have temazepam, clonazepam, and alprazolam.. Will either of the formention drugs potentiate those benzos? Help quick I want to use these meds before I end up using them in the wrong way and end up in severe withdrawl. Also has anyone heard of gabitril

Thanks,
sp0r
 
Also I heard a few mentions of beta blockers, I have a bunch of propranolol as well, will this clash with baclofen or neurontin?
 
Ok I have a shitload of baclofen and a shitload of gabapentin, which one is more recreational, and do either of them potentiate benzos?? I never tried GHB although I have done all other club drugs, and I have also read that GHB is almost similar to BACLOFEN and have read that 80mg + is extremely sedating and can be a good feeling. BUT i keep reading about this sever withdrawl, how long does it take to kick in? I took 40 mg baclofen last night and today my pupils were huge and I felt like I was instantly withdrawling from clonazepam. What is the deal? I need help on what benefits I can get from baclofen/gabapentin+benzos. Someone please help. I have a big ass bottle of baclofen and have been taking around 1200 mgs of neurontin a night.
Also I read that 1200mg + a night at bedtime is a protocol for amphetamine withdrawl. Anyone else hear anything about this?? I would hate to waste such huge supplies of pharmaceautical.s Also I have temazepam, clonazepam, and alprazolam.. Will either of the formention drugs potentiate those benzos? Help quick I want to use these meds before I end up using them in the wrong way and end up in severe withdrawl. Also has anyone heard of gabitril

Thanks,
sp0r

You've mentioned benzos, gabapentin, amphetamine, baclofen + now propranolol. Firstly BE CAREFUL. Use any of those in the wrong combination could be seriously hazardous.

I mean this in the nicest way but it sounds like you are asking TOO many questions - bluelight is a wealth of knowledge and people often answer specific questions. What bluelight isn't is able to do if give you a consult or the equivalent of a GP/Psych doctor to tell you which ones would benefit you for withdrawal / or for recreation -

none of us know your full medical/drug history. Giving you specific advice is highly dangerous.

BE SAFE, if you are to take any of the substances mentioned I suggest you read up and try to understand as much as possible beforehand
 
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