• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand

Baclofen (Lioresal) - Miracle Drug or Crap

^I was simply referring to them having multiple modes of action, on GABAergic, glutamatergic (NMDA and AMPA) as well as various sodium, calcium, and potassium channels, and other ligand gated ion channels. (the volatile anesthetics, in my opinion at least, tend to be more glutamatergic, so are more dangerous, and these chemicals can lean either way...) I shouldn't have mentioned the length honestly... I was only using it to distinguish them chemically. Should have been more specific. Sorry about that.

Are you saying chloral hydrate is basically useless recreationally?

what about chlormethiazole...how do it and chloral compare to the barbiturates and benzodiazepines?
 
Chloral hydrate has a nasty tendency both to repeat on the user, as in, to come up as tastable innard-fumes every time one belches. It is an effective sedative, but has a relatively steep dose response curve. It is unusual apparently, amongst sedatives in that it does not suppress epileptiform electrical discharges well if at all. That said I have read of its being used as an anticonvulsant in emergencies.

Barbs on the other hand, it IMO outperforms the decent one I've had, barbital, by virtue mainly of its not being an antagonist at AMPA-barbiturate binding site (which IIRC is within the 'clamshell' of AMPARs, and undergoes a kind of ligand-trapping that leads to extended residence times and resistant to washout, when E.g pentabarbital was tested in electrophysiological (patch-clamp)) conditions, with after washout ceased to elute further barbiturate, nevertheless considerable depression of activation upon administration of E,g domoate or quisqualate. Chlormethiazole is very clear-headed, and does not leave a hangover, intermediate acting, effective sedative-hypnotic.

I am on it, as well as some dipropionylmorphine right now (I am highly opioid tolerant, those naive to opioids shouldn't even try mixing the two) It really isn't forgiving in the least of people being careless or stupid with it, but otherwise, probably the best of the sedative-hypnotics I've tried, and theres been an awful lot of those so far.

Girlwithbluehair-why which ones tend towards AMPA/NMDA antagonism?
 
I am a huge fan of downers, as you may guess I'm an opioid addict and have been addicted for 14yrs-15yrs (addicted meaning on any given week I was using at least 5 out of 7 days, if not daily). I was lucky enough to have a phobia of needles which still plagues me but on the plus side its what saved me from being a full blown addict!

My preferred method of administration (MOA) is anything that doesn't involve a needle! Basically I always opt for oral administration but if the bioavailability of the drug is low then snorting is my second choice! I've tried plugging with 3 different substances (hydromorphone 2-3 times, morphine 3-4 times and amobarbital 1 time), but found it too much a hassle, no more superior than snorting and not devoid of health risks, such as increased risk of colon cancer, etc. Morphine was an exception, it destroyed me, where I could eat 120mg-200mg (orally) easily, 60mg-80mg plugged, had me so high that I was throwing up, had double vision, face as pale as a ghost who's brain isn't getting enough oxygen :)

Since my MOA is limited to oral and/or snorted, I have had to find other drugs to use to potentiate the experience. Especially after several years of using and tolerance catching up with me, most people in my situation are left with two options, one option is to use higher and higher doses of your drug of choice. The other option is to use the same amount you would use normally in addition to another drug to create a synergetic experience. I've opted for the latter as with the former there aren't any limitations to the addictions of an opioid addict, for example I got up to 10 bags/points of heroin (1g/day) chasing off foil, when at the beginning 1 point was the same strength as 4 OC 80s & smoked would last me 2-3 days from when I got up in the morning to when I went to sleep. On the other hand throwing some benzos in the mix, while a dangerous practice, tends to reduce this outrageous increase in dose/tolerance.

During these 14-15yrs I've tried pretty much everything there is to try, especially when it comes to sedatives.

I can honestly say that Baclofen was *the worst* medication I've ever had - can't say its superior to anything, alcohol included, probably even gasoline is better! I was taking Baclofen at the time when I was also taking methadone 200mg/day (MMT), clonazepam 4mg/day and nabilone (Cesamet) 4mg/day as needed - a prescription synthetic cannabinoid. One would imagine Baclofen to act in synergy with what I've described, also the doctor told me it was a safe addition. I was prescribed 3x 10mg = 30mg/day but took 3 pills once (2 pills then 1 more after feeling the effects). I felt 'ok', maybe even slightly, *very slightly* euphoric in the sense I felt like I was on alcohol to a certain extent, cloudiness of thoughts, motor skills impacted, but slightly more energetic than alcohol, even on the combo! However the next day I threw up violently for 1hr+ still not convinced it was from baclofen. I continued taking it for 3-4 times total. The next time I took it I took 20mg but still threw up the next day! I gave it some time 1-2 weeks and decided to take 10mg, still I threw up the day after like clockwork. One time I took 5mg with another 5mg later for potentiating purposes but that too gave me bad nausea/vomit the day after as well as headaches. I discontinued it after that...I've given it to several friends on their request and they all threw up the day after without exceptions!

The second worst medication I tried was Lyrica, which I took on a dose of hydromorphone so I was euphoric when I took it - as soon as the effects started I was wondering "when will this end? when will it be over?" - the effects had completely overpowered those of the opioid. The euphoria was wasted as my head was spinning/dizzy like when having to much to drink, loss of motor skills - so unpleasant that it was even able to ruin a perfectly euphoric substance! The dose was 1 pill, can't remember the dose! Not as bad as Baclofen though as with Lyrica 2-3hrs later, the effects subsided to baseline and motor skills were back to normal.

I want to dispel some myths about Baclofen, some people saying it feels like GHB, others that it feels like alcohol, or like barbiturates or anything else for that matter, the *only* thing it feels like is vomiting, puking and head hurting!

- it is NOTHING like GHB! GHB is a wonderful experience with empathy and euphoria, music enjoyment, social lubricant type. If you think it compares to GHB and you've tried GHB let me ask you, 'do you throw up violently from GHB'? How can you even compare the 2, its blasphemy on part of the GHB!

- doesn't compare to alcohol unless we are taking about the worst part of the alcohol experience, namely the part after 2 days of binge drinking, sun cracking through your windows showing the left over smoke in the house, while ur getting up with a pounding headache, looking for where the smoke is coming from realizing you've been sleeping & breathing right beside an overflowing ashtray, needing to go the washroom you make it sweating and swearing only to throw up and being 'stuck' to the toilet until you finish throwing up 1hr later. *Baclofen is similar to other drugs in this aspect and this aspect alone!*
 
Pretty much. Although I CAN detect a trace of the GHB signature. In that I can tell it is a GABAb agonist, and nothing more.

Disgusting shit.
 
I took 30mg baclofen daily for months and got nothing from it. No high and no low. Never once got sick, even after trying up to 80mg at once.
This came after 10 or 15 years if heavy drinking. The Baclofen cured my alcoholism and I haven't drank in 2 1/2 years now.
My guess is that Baclofen is the same as a lot of other drugs: everyone's experience is different and it depends largely on genetics and previous drug use.
 
Lett me tell you Imo the drug is shit. I am the one who always has to push things remember dose after dose one night. I kept tellin myself i dont feel shit till i kept waking up and couldnt breathe and passing out again no fun no fun at all children.
 
I just re-read the long post here from muie- I'm pretty sure I puked a lot when I was trying Baclofen occasionally for my neuropathy. Maybe I was getting sick the next day like he was and I just don't remember.
 
I’ll get straight to the point, I have extensive experience with Baclofen and here’s what I’ve discovered to be one of the most mind blowing combinations of drugs I’ve ever done all my whole life. And the best part is it’s 100% non narcotic! I have sky high tolerance to everything but some drugs synergize so well you’d think your tolerance dropped off a mountain. Awyays for anyone looking for a pain crushing, super social, anxiety obliterating, overall feel like king of the earth combo then this is for you. Let me add that the only I’ll side effect I’ve experienced in months of doing this was difficulty getting to sleep.

Here it is I’ll give you my personal doses and highly suggest starting very small and slowly increasing. Even if you’re a full blown addict for years and who’s drug tolerance seems untouchable start small trust me:

What you’ll need: baclofen 10mg gabapentin 800mg and a supplement called Finaflex PX white that you can get at vitaminshoppe or online it’s about $30.

Doses: I’ll take 3-4 baclofen + 4 gabapentin + only 1 Finaflex capsule. Effects comes pretty quick and will last all day long, however me personally I will do another 2-4 gaba’s halfway through the day and maybe another 2-3 baclofen depending on what my plans are for the day. If you have different mg per tab adjust doses accordingly. For example you might have 300mg gabapentin

Let me reiterate that these are my personal doses and I urge you to start very small, because Finallex PX is very strong and even someone like me with INSANE stimulant tolerance only needs 1 for the whole day. I also have high tolerances to baclofen and especially gaba so I’m almost positive the starting doses for me will be too intense for you so set your ego aside and be safe:

Viola enjoy the entire day with massive confidence especially socially, energy that won’t deminish until the end of the day, complete relief of almost any kind of pain even high to severe, and the greatest feeling of clear clean well being with highly enhanced motor and cognitive function with NO CRASH OR HANGOEVER. I can do the same doses everyday for weeks even months without my tolerance changes.

Be safe and lmk how it goes if you decide on your own to try it out. Play with dosing baclofen or GABA just don’t ever do more than 2 Finaflex PX’s. Good luck!! Msg me with any questions, like I said i have a shit load of experience with this combo and countless other drugs and combinations.

SIDENOTE - don’t quote me on this but as far as I’ve studied, you can’t overdose from baclofen or gabapentin, worst case it’ll knock you out, I’ve taken copious amounts of both separately and sleepiness was the only effect. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE FINAFLEX!!! please be extremely careful and do your research before taking more than recommended dosing.
 
Baclofen, phenibut, pregabalin, gabapentin and so on all produce GHB-like tolerance and dependence issues. The UK protocol is to substitute diazepam and reduce the diazepam slowly.

If you want to know if this class is a bad idea, watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fc8sXWopBs

It's KIDS! Who happily supplies a drug they know will kill people? While the dose makes the poison, the LD50 in rats does not confirm the LD50 in humans. As the HR points out, person centred counselling (Carl Rogers) IS a vastly better answer but its cheaper to keep giving the GABA ligands. Diazepam/Tramadol & GABA ligands... insane. Then again, quetipine has a street value. I mean, has anyone else tried that one? Losing a day is apparently of value. People mixing Q & coke and i.v.ing it! WHF?
 
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CertifiedExpert- I still have a bunch of Baclofen and Gabapentin. I may have to try your little trick.
And you're right about od'ing. The most you really can get is nausea, and then you're throwing up the pills instead of dying from them!
 
I found baclofen excellent for GHB addiction it takes away withdrawal and after a few days craving completely, after that i can just stop baclofen and i no longer notice withdrawal effects.

As for alcohol addiction, theres a overwhelming ammount of positive anecdotes for alcohol addiction, ive also read that one book that sparkled peoples interest in the drug, it was highly interesting.
 
I tried backofen again to help with opiate withdrawls . Felt absolutely nothing.
 
Using baclofen or carefully dosed and tapered phenibut to taper off GHB actually does make clinical sense as they are all GABAb agonists, with GHB having a half life low enough that it will always wear off during sleep, making it impossible to maintain and taper stably.


For other things, baclofen is pretty shit, and some people just don't respond to it. Its got a weird trait of being known that some people respond orally, yet not to intrathecal baclofen, yet some people respond to intrathecal baclofen but not at all to it by mouth.

Never have or would want it into my spine, I do have nerve damage and need a strong muscle relaxant, but I use high dose tizanidine (zanaflex) for that, because I've tried baclofen and even close to a gram of the stuff it still does naff fucking shite all with bells on it's dick eye.
 
I have the same reaction. Zero effect from even high doses of Baclofen. Just wake up feeling like I drank a lot of cheap beer.
It did cure my alcoholism though.
 
I’ll get straight to the point, I have extensive experience with Baclofen and here’s what I’ve discovered to be one of the most mind blowing combinations of drugs I’ve ever done all my whole life. And the best part is it’s 100% non narcotic! I have sky high tolerance to everything but some drugs synergize so well you’d think your tolerance dropped off a mountain. Awyays for anyone looking for a pain crushing, super social, anxiety obliterating, overall feel like king of the earth combo then this is for you. Let me add that the only I’ll side effect I’ve experienced in months of doing this was difficulty getting to sleep.

Here it is I’ll give you my personal doses and highly suggest starting very small and slowly increasing. Even if you’re a full blown addict for years and who’s drug tolerance seems untouchable start small trust me:

What you’ll need: baclofen 10mg gabapentin 800mg and a supplement called Finaflex PX white that you can get at vitaminshoppe or online it’s about $30.

Doses: I’ll take 3-4 baclofen + 4 gabapentin + only 1 Finaflex capsule. Effects comes pretty quick and will last all day long, however me personally I will do another 2-4 gaba’s halfway through the day and maybe another 2-3 baclofen depending on what my plans are for the day. If you have different mg per tab adjust doses accordingly. For example you might have 300mg gabapentin

Let me reiterate that these are my personal doses and I urge you to start very small, because Finallex PX is very strong and even someone like me with INSANE stimulant tolerance only needs 1 for the whole day. I also have high tolerances to baclofen and especially gaba so I’m almost positive the starting doses for me will be too intense for you so set your ego aside and be safe:

Viola enjoy the entire day with massive confidence especially socially, energy that won’t deminish until the end of the day, complete relief of almost any kind of pain even high to severe, and the greatest feeling of clear clean well being with highly enhanced motor and cognitive function with NO CRASH OR HANGOEVER. I can do the same doses everyday for weeks even months without my tolerance changes.

Be safe and lmk how it goes if you decide on your own to try it out. Play with dosing baclofen or GABA just don’t ever do more than 2 Finaflex PX’s. Good luck!! Msg me with any questions, like I said i have a shit load of experience with this combo and countless other drugs and combinations.

SIDENOTE - don’t quote me on this but as far as I’ve studied, you can’t overdose from baclofen or gabapentin, worst case it’ll knock you out, I’ve taken copious amounts of both separately and sleepiness was the only effect. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE FINAFLEX!!! please be extremely careful and do your research before taking more than recommended dosing.

Finaflex PX ingredients are caffeine, green tea, theobroma cacao seed , blueberry powder, theobromine, citrus aurantium, rauwolfia vomitoria, sulbutiamine, b-phenethylamine hcl, schisandra chinensis, hordenine hcl.

Combining hordenine, caffeine and phenethylamine kinda sounds like a bad idea
 
The phenethylamine, in the absence of an MAOI would be extirpated within moments by MAO.

As for Rauwolfia vomitoria...that sounds enticing. 'vomitoria' ? appetizing...The plants common name is 'the poison Devil's pepper' and every part of the plant is toxic. It also contains 2,6-dimethoxybenzoquinone. That could be interesting to take to the lab and make a psi-2C-X or DOx kind of psychedelic phen/phet analog. But the compound itself is mutagenic/carcinogenic/possibly cytotoxic.

The tree itself is an invasive species, so where its present (it grows extremely rapidly, up to 1 foot a month, and a single tree produces thousands of seeds), I should very much doubt there would be many complaints about its extirpation by clandestine chemists armed with soxhlets built from steel chemical drums and the refuse wood being piled up and burnt after it has been sucked dry of 2,6-dimethoxybenzoquinone.

The citrus aurantium, isn't that just a source of phenylephrine? basically this is just a cheapskate, really fucking shitty attempt at a stimulant. Mixed with an extract of a genotoxic, generally nasty, mutagenic/carcinogenic tree. Doesn't 'poison Devil's pepper' give you the warm fwuzzys about eating of it? Personally I'd keep that particular plants usage restricted to leaching the quinonic compound from it and taking it to the lab.
 
I was on baclofen for years for alcohol use disorder. It didn't really help me. It was touted as a miracle cure for alcoholism but I still drank heavily. And at high doses the dizziness and disorientation were extremely unpleasant. I quit taking it after the copay got jacked up.
 
I managed to stop for a year and a half, but then I had an unpleasant encounter with the cops that got me started again. I'm trying to stop now in time for the Holidays because I'm going to see family and everyone's a teetotaler. Plus it was just truly getting out of hand.
 
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