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Baclofen (Lioresal) - Miracle Drug or Crap

Jimmy69 said:
Baclofen should work as powerful anti-craving also for amphetamine.
At my knowledge there is only one specific clinical trial but a lot of other studies shows that should work for different kind of substance abuse.
Consider that an important thing about Baclofen efficacy is that is is "dose-related" and that this trial uses a really low dose (20mg).
Baclofen have to be titrated of 5/10mg every 3-5 days (or longer) depending on how your body reacts and on eventual secondary effects.
If it works in amphetamine as in alcohol, low doses in most cases makes a reduction of craving, high (tailored) doses suppress it!

Good that you know about withdrawal (really important but with normal/responsible cautions is not a problem).
To take Baclofen you should also check that your kidneys works well (only 15% by the liver and 85% by them).
I'm not a Dr so take this post as a simple user experience.

About dopamine... Baclofen will not lower it but instead "just" modulate it (as MeDieViL said is a bit complicate how Baclofen works but I'm sure about modulation).
High positive impact on anxiety and I personally find it also anti-depressive.

Let us know the results if you decide to try and ask anything in case of need.

PS: here a ready link to baclofen methamphetamine Pubmed results.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, I realize this is in reply to an old post but I was asked to report back. The baclofen at ten mgs tid did actually help. I think. Being that I am a poly drug abuser it would be really difficult to pin the success on one drug. I was taking large amounts of lyrica and clonazepam at the time as well as alcohol and opiates. But the thing is aside from the baclofen and lyrica none of the other drugs were able to stop the compulsive use. It wasn't until I took the baclofen and lyrica that I was able to return to baseline and function like normal. So it was either the baclofen or the lyrica or both. I'm leaning towards both. I hope this helps anyone trying to study these drugs and their effects on compulsive self administration of amphetamines over a certain period of time.
Gaba b is an odd receptor site.
 
Its pretty revolting stuff IMO, really really not worth it in any recreational sense. I've tried it, slightly similar feeling to being drunk, after drinking more than enough to feel shitty but not so much as to feel truly ill, just rotten (not hung over, I mean the kind of acute alcohol pissedness where all you want to do is crawl into bed and sleep it off. Nasty, shitty dirty head-swimming drunk, with nothing whatsoever culled from the half decent features of alcohol ingestion to the point of intoxication) Dog shit in a pill form.

Do be aware that it can take a LONG time to act. When I took it, it took at least a full day and then some. Not so long as to take two, but a day and a half wasn't at all unlikely for me. Nothing at all the day I'd taken any, then all that crappyness the next day about halfway in. I'd sooner it was still waiting if I'm honest. And if it did have to pick a time, to come on, and go again while I am not awake to know about it.

DANGEROUS addiction if it caused one however, due to similarities with GHB withdrawal (which is AWFUL, just fucking hideous...you might hear on BL how people would take cold turkey heroin withdrawal over that from benzos? well WD from GHB
is one step below benzo WD in the abyss. It, and cold turkey barbiturate withdrawal from a large habit are next door neighbors feuding with each other about who is the shittiest) Never withdrawn from phenibut, but have heard some truly bowel-knotting horror stories. Its long, long LONG acting as well so I bet it could cause WD quite quickly, similar to round-the-clock GHB/GBL abuse. Although due to that same long action I bet it might well make a useful detox drug for tapering in GHB
physical dependent patients, G being most impractical for this due to the really short action.
 
Phenibut is a perfectly fine substance. Why do you people give it shit? Because you abuse it without knowing the drawbacks? Sorry, but that's your own fault, not the drug's. Phenibut has wonderful therapeutic potential, just like the other gabapentinoids, such as gabapentin, pregabalin, and baclofen, and can be used for the same medical conditions and symptoms. It displays cross-tolerance and can be substituted for any of them as well.

If you're withdrawing from gabapentin or lyrica, phenibut is perfect to stop the withdrawals and help you taper. It has the same mechanism of action: it works the same way.

It's a good drug. Don't bash it because you abuse it without researching or go through withdrawals because you don't taper. (I don't see how anybody can go through withdrawals with this drug - it's so widely available and if you have it in the first place, how can you not just wean yourself off...?)

^It is not dog shit in pill form. How can you say that? Any drug can have negative side effects if you overdose on it...
 
I have recently had a similar experience with baclofen- the dog shit pill form experience. I credit it with curing my decade of alcohol abuse and having no side effects, but i tried taking it again now to help with post surgery nerve pain and DAMN!
I took between 50 and 80 mg/day on 6 or 7 different occasions to see if it would help my nerve pain. I got zero help, no buzz even. Every time, I woke up and spent the whole next day feeling hungover like when you drink a LOT of really cheap vodka or tequila. It felt like the inside of my skin around my entire body had been rubbed with a combination of asphalt and the greasy dust from the floor under the oven.
I think the important thing to remember, with anything (not only drugs), is that we all can have different reactions. Even the same person can have a different experience with the same drug because they are older/ fatter/ more or less sober now.... etc.
I love BlueLight because I get to learn from other people's experiences what didn't work for them (and I understand that I may not always be getting a complete picture of that person's life during that time in their life).
 
If you took it non recreationally, and in medical dosages three to four times a day, it would work for your pain. In small dosages, and not all at once (which I'm assuming you did, correct? - forgive me If I'm wrong -) You're not going to get relief by taking large dosages on singular occasions.

Once again - just because a drug gives you negative effects because you take a bunch of it (technically an overdose) does not make it shitty.

I'm sorry to you had a bad experience with it, though.
 
I DIDN'T overdose. ANY dose, assuming of course the dose was sufficient to be active. Didn't abuse it, I only took it a few times, and tossed the rest because it was fucking lousy, unpleasant garbage. Utter crap.

I personally, did not withdraw from the drug. I was simply remarking that I have heard some true horror stories, and seemingly a physical dependency can form very quickly, most likely due to its very long duration of action.
It certainly CAN do this. But to me, personally, it has not done so, because I simply didn't take it for so long. I have no desire ever to take it again. Nasty shit.

What squeaky said, only aimed at phenibut. Baclofen simply does not do anything to me, not at ten, and not at several times tenfold that quantity. No hangover, no benefit, no nothing. I may as well, for all it did, have drunk tap water. Makes me think of birds and chilli/capsaicin. It has no effects on them whatsoever, because their TRPV1 receptors are different enough not to recognize capsaicin. I've tried up to half a gram of baclofen, easily, without the slightest effect. Definitely the real thing, not from some indian pharmacy etc. but prescribed here in the UK and obtained from a local pharmacy. Seen someone else do the same thing in a suicide attempt,and it nearly succeeded (wish it had, with hindsight should have stuck a pillow over the fucker's face, turned out to be a real nasty piece'o'work:p)

But it floored the bitch in question, slowed breathing rate down to a few a minute, near paralysed, ptosis etc. Fucker couldn't move a muscle.

Phenibut just made me feel incoordinated, nauseated, blurry vision, ataxic, and like I had a monster alcohol hangover. This was not a hangover itself, rather that was the acute effects, provoked at any active dose. I simply reacted badly to it.
 
Girlwithbluehair-do you mean phenibut or baclofen?

Don't know about phenibut, but baclofen at least, is quite well known for screwy pharmacodynamics. Some people simply don't respond to either oral or intrathecal baclofen, yet respond to it via the other route.,
Never tried it via a spinal pump, I just went on to using tizanidine for my muscle relaxant, which works perfectly, utterly abolishing the difficulty from the nerve injury. No need for risky surgery when an alternative med works absolutely fine, and to boot helps suppress excess adrenergic activity that otherwise, makes me very uncomfortable.

Phenibut was just one of those drugs that doesn't like me one bit.

The interesting thing though was the duration that had to elapse, on taking a larger, bolus dose. It never, ever, showed signs of activity until halfway to three quarters of the way through the next day. If taken one day during the morning/early afternoon, then
 
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I'm not trying to be confrontational or anything. I just think some drugs get a bad reputation because they are not respected. I was just putting forth scenarios in which this would be true... wasn't aiming at directly at anybody, just in general. That's odd that it had no effect at all. GABA B receptors are one of the major receptor types in the brain, and if you saturated the that much you should have felt something. Are you absolutely sure it was legit?

I know the horror stories. I've experienced them first hand. The withdrawals from baclofen are pure hell.
 
No worries, I didn't take offense, I just merely thought it prudent to make clear that in fact it was not abused or formed a dependency thereon myself. But that ANY active dose of phenibut at all just feels shitty to me. Its one step above paraldehyde IMO.


Well unless several pharmacies decided to get bunk product, bricks-and-mortar pharmacies with their premises on UK high streets that is, and decided to shaft me,then yes, I am indeed sure. The prescription itself came from my GP due to leg spastici
ty following failed surgery, nerve injured. Typical what you'd expect really, paraesthesia, neuropathic pain etc. But the stiffness and cramping it causes in my calf is the worst. Unless not only one, but two or three pharmacies ALL ordered dodgy pills and I got those pills each time then yes, it was real. I've tried it from elsewhere too, someone else's script. Same result, exactly the same result. So I've tried it from as reliable a legit source as I can possibly have obtained the drug from, short of making some myself; and I wouldn't waste reagents doing that.

The inactivity thing w/baclofen is a known fact, some people do not respond to it either intrathecally, or orally AT ALL, but some of that population experiences benefits from the other route.
Thats why I made the birds/capsaicin analogy really, I wonder if its something like a receptor polymorphism in certain people that selectively reduces affinity for baclofen. Phenibut was active, it was simply unpleasant.
 
Its probably just like alcohol. Dr's tell us that all alcohol is bad and that it is all the same. But we all know that there's nothing wrong with having one beer, and that getting drunk on wine will affect you way different than tequila.
 
Limpet_Chicken said:
Girlwithbluehair-do you mean phenibut or baclofen?

Don't know about phenibut, but baclofen at least, is quite well known for screwy pharmacodynamics. Some people simply don't respond to either oral or intrathecal baclofen, yet respond to it via the other route.,
Never tried it via a spinal pump, I just went on to using tizanidine for my muscle relaxant, which works perfectly, utterly abolishing the difficulty from the nerve injury. No need for risky surgery when an alternative med works absolutely fine, and to boot helps suppress excess adrenergic activity that otherwise, makes me very uncomfortable.

Phenibut was just one of those drugs that doesn't like me one bit.

The interesting thing though was the duration that had to elapse, on taking a larger, bolus dose. It never, ever, showed signs of activity until halfway to three quarters of the way through the next day. If taken one day during the morning/early afternoon, then
Click to expand...

Phenibut
 
Squeaky said:
Its probably just like alcohol. Dr's tell us that all alcohol is bad and that it is all the same. But we all know that there's nothing wrong with having one beer, and that getting drunk on wine will affect you way different than tequila.
Click to expand...

What is just like alcohol?
 
theGirlWithBlueHair- I was specifically referring to Baclofen, but my comment that "it's just like alcohol" kind if applies to all food and drugs. Dr's are intelligent people and should be respected but they are still PEOPLE and they are occasionally wrong. And pharmaceutical companies routinely lie.
Just because my Dr tells me that Baclofen won't give me bad side effects doesn't mean that it can't. It just means the pharma company who makes it says it didn't do that to people in their study. I could be the 1 in a million who has a bad reaction.
 
Everybody lies, House gives good advice. We should all listen to him.

A doctor shouldn't tell his patient a drug won't give them bad side-effects. That's not good practicing. They should always say it could.

And do you mean its effects?

Alcohol does activate some inward rectifying Ki currents that mimic the effects of the GABA B GIRK channel, but other than that slight similarity, the two are nothing alike in regard to effects.
 
Well no not all alcohol is the same. Only primary and secondary alcohols can be oxidized to aldehydes and ketones respectively.

2-methylisopropanol and 2-methyl-butan-2-ol are both nice, the latter more so, and the dose is small enough to be diluted in a 5 or 10ml rig and fed to one's pet chocolate starfish for good effects, and no hangover.
 
the short-chained carbon atoms can work a like like the volatile anaesthetics. I would be careful on them and be careful you always get your dosage/combinations right.
 
I was more thinking of the availability of the likes of tert-pentanol. The other ones I mentioned are chloral hydrate analogs.

(edit-oops, early morning brainfart, I was thinking more of the chlorinated analog of 2-methylisopropanol; 1,1,1-trichloro-2-methyl-propan-2-ol)

What do you mean they act like volatile anaesthetics? I don't see how that would really make a difference, compared to ethanol, although I can see the resemblance, subjectively speaking, considering that the volatile gases have quite a lot in common with ordinary ethyl alcohol, I don't see how lengthening the chain is going to do much other than possibly either increase potency or in the case of tert. alcohols be rendered less susceptible to being oxidized to nasty metabolites.
 
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Limpet_Chicken said:
I was more thinking of the availability of the likes of tert-pentanol. The other ones I mentioned are chloral hydrate analogs.

(edit-oops, early morning brainfart, I was thinking more of the chlorinated analog of 2-methylisopropanol; 1,1,1-trichloro-2-methyl-propan-2-ol)

What do you mean they act like volatile anaesthetics? I don't see how that would really make a difference, compared to ethanol, although I can see the resemblance, subjectively speaking, considering that the volatile gases have quite a lot in common with ordinary ethyl alcohol, I don't see how lengthening the chain is going to do much other than possibly either increase potency or in the case of tert. alcohols be rendered less susceptible to being oxidized to nasty metabolites.
Click to expand...
Before my dr turned into a bike Nazi, he used to rx me pretty much anything I'd ask for. One month I was curious about chloral hydrate and I think he miss wrote the rx because I was dispensed the likes of 3 huge bottles. I never could enjoy it though. I would measure out about 5ml and within a couple of minutes it was lights out. Next morning felt pretty dirty and had little to no recollection of the effects the night prior. Now that I think about it, the hangover from coal hydrate felt identical to how I feel the day after ingesting large amounts of baclofen (which is a thing of the past, I thank God I escaped without dependency)
 
Chloral isn't much cop really unless one needs an easily made sedative/hypnotic. Tendency to repeat on one, with chloral-flavoured camphoraceous burps.

Bromal hydrate is a no go too, never tried it but some very old medical textbooks I have (1800') lists it, but with the caveat that its really rough on the GI tract and has nothing whatsoever to recommend it in place of chloral. And given the books in question were still using arsenicals, antimony derivatives, mercury and lead in various guises, and offers the option of HNO3 as a wash for sore piles then it must be REALLY poor, and afterall even paraldehyde of all the filthy noxious garbage of that ilk, is listed amongst the sedative-hypnotics and anticonvulsants, doesn't earn a nasty warning like that, and paraldehyde (acetaldehyde trimer) is about the foulest thing bar the heavy metals and things like aconite IN that book, or that anyone could ever hope never ever to become acquainted with as a drug.



Stupid fucking pork broke (totally on purpose I am positive of it, wouldn't be the first time either) some of my glassware, and ruined several reagents....and my IR thermometer went missing.
And to (jack)boot, the fucking cocksuckers weren't even meant to be examining the lab on the fucking warrant!, pricks. Could have burned the house down too, by leaving something potentially pyrophoric and air sensitive dumped on the benchtop right next to opened container of ether/THF.



What is a bike nazi?

I've had similar 'odd' sized RX'es when in hospital-I had to have an op a handful of times and every time when I've had to be discharged on a fri--sat-sun
I've asked them to provide enough meds to see me through until I could make an appt. with a non-hospital doc of my own, I've ended up being given a couple of full pharmacy dispensing-sized bottles of chlormethiazole caps, totalling several hundred 192mg caps of the stuff, bottles of liquid oxy, full ones too they didn't bother fucking about opening a dispensation bottle to remove some for me they just handed over the bottle and said nothing when I just opened it then and there, taking a big fat slurp from the bottle rather than piss around measuring, because I needed to get a good sized dose in me because of the otherwise mostly fucking awful way they have treated me, ignoring my needs for my existing scripts to be continued with whilst on the wards, and fobbing me off with the likes of 10-20mg oral morphine every 8 hours or so, whilst my prescription is for several hundred mg plus cimetidine both for my acid reflux and for inhibition of CYP-P450 enzymatic pathways and metabolism of morphine. And not to mention fucking around with my usual oxy requirements, both lowering the dose and switching to oxycontin. So I'm guessing that they felt guilty as hell for it. I hope they did, because a dispensary bottle of liquid oxy and two of the chlormethiazole bottles, and a full script for the usual morphine but only when I was leaving, needing enough meds to cover me for 2-3 days each time, got a week's worth of the morph, in both 10s and 30s.

Got some extra oxynorm 10mg IR extra, a full blister strip extra that wasn't on my rx when I collected my latest refill, and this wasn't in hospital, this just the other day. That was a nice surprise.
 
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