Bupe IV Buprenorphine/Antihistamine FAQ v. Back From The Dead

[Tchort]

Pyribenzamine (a.k.a. Tripellenamine) is obsolete- I doubt it has been prescribed once since 1989. It might as well be taken off the list. Thephoran (Phenindanine) is another that is no longer around.

Promethazine, given the new evidence that even ampoule, hospital setting IV Promethazine can cause gangrene and subsequent amputation should have us all screaming to change anti-histamines that you IV immediately.

 

[sixpartseven]

lol anyone who finds the popular, playful phrase "you're a cheap date" offensive deserves no serious attention from anyone. Also, do you realize I posted that BEFORE I responded to or closed your other thread? I said "you're a cheap date" because at the time, I thought you were doing small amounts of diphenhydramine, which would be CHEAPER than shooting heroin, hence you being a CHEAP date because hypothetically, if anyone took you on a date full of drug usage, they wouldn't have to spend as much as they anticipated because you prefer cheaper diphenhydramine over more expensive heroin.

I swore I wouldn't explain myself, but you finding that offensive boggles my mind to no end.

If you're going to leave, then leave. BL - and OD especially - is not for everyone. But if you stay - and you're more than welcome to, and in fact, I encourage you to - and keep up the bullshit posts in this thread or start derailing other threads, we'll all watch your time left on this site quickly tick down to nothing.

Anyway, back on track..

 

[Captain.Heroin]

hydroxyzine and buprenorphine

CH, how is the bupe & hydrox rush? is it at all comparable to a shot of dope?

It varies per person. As 6/7 said, it is not the same as IV heroin. It's kind of a whole different league, and it's mostly inaccurate to think of it in terms of IV heroin.

With this being said, I have noticed a trend for a majority of people to prefer heroin over buprenorphine, while I have met people who did enjoy using buprenorphine more than heroin. Weird, I know. I personally have grown fond of buprenorphine, but in terms of heroin, there is very little that would even come close in terms of simulating it outside of other opiates. There are probably some psychedelics, especially if the right dose/right ROA, may feel like heroin, but this is also different as it will be an intense psychedelic trip too with the body high.

Buprenorphine by itself has a moderate/mild "rush" that I can feel on its own, only because I took a long time to taper down to where I am today. Heroin is obviously a very quick acting, very euphoric and reinforcing opiate, especially when IV"d. Buprenorphine, on the other hand, will not be felt as quickly. After injection, you can pull out the needle, put a sterile piece of coton/toilet paper/etc on your site, hold it semi-firmly in place, and clean the blood out of the needle before you begin feeling anything. And, it's not an "all at once" kind of thing, over the course of a minute or so, you get the sensation that it's creeping up on you, slowly. By 10-20 minutes, you should be peaking. It may take longer/shorter for specific people. Some people may not even get high this way, especially if they have a high opiate tolerance.

So, I think it's important to point out that the "worth" of buprenorphine being used IV is semi-dependent on some factors, one obviously being tolerance. Individual's unique pharmacology will come into play as well.

With hydroxyzine (around 2.5mg to 5mg), you are calmed. The hydroxyzine has an instantaneous effect, but quickly dies down. It's almost 1-2 seconds long. I typically only feel it longer than a second if I use more than 5mg. The overall effect of the hydroxyzine will keep you relaxed, not anxious, and possibly sedated for a few hours, tops. At 5mg to 8mg, it's a wonderful anxiolytic. The "mini-rush" if you will, can last for 5-10 seconds, and will slowly fade away to pleasant relaxing synergism with buprenorphine.

Sometimes hydroxyzine and buprenorphine is ideal when I intend to sleep and not stay up all night (like tonight! %)), or when I am anxious or in a bad mood.

I will point out though, that I don't prefer to use hydroxyzine with every shot. I prefer it only with some shots. More often than not, I find that when I use 7.5mg of temazepam parachuted, when I first feel it taking effect, I prefer to use 5mg (if not 6mg to 8mg) with 0.2mg buprenorphine, and the 5-10 second long "mini-rush" is much more intense. I was pretty surprised that temazepam and hydroxyzine is a better "combo" than buprenorphine and hydroxyzine, but it's very nice. Sometimes temazepam is less sedating initially and more sedating later. If you need to get to sleep, 3 to 5 mg of hydroxyzine with buprenorphine in a shot when you're coming up on temazepam (also got this with flurazepam, none of the other benzos tend to synergize with hydroxyzine that well, at least that I have done). The hydroxyzine also kind of boosts the kind of effects that are similar to benzos.

With all of this being said, never shoot hydroxyzine hcl without micron filtering, and ideally, do not do this often. It is possible the pH of the solutions I have created are off to a point where 6 to 8mg in a shot and anything above, may simply burn when you're pushing the plunger in, even when you're in the vein and are not missing. Using 3 to 5mg at the most is much better at avoiding the "stinging" sensation from an acidic or basic pH (I am not sure which). I would also not recommend IV hydroxyzine if you are not 99.9% sure you are going to make your shot, no problem. The reason being; missing with hydroxyzine will burn worse than injecting successfully 10mg. It's also not that great for your veins to miss, even when micron filtered.

I haven't used hydroxyzine for a long time now, and I don't plan on using it for some time to come. Overall it's a nice every now and then kind of thing when I need it, but recently since I have gotten on ADHD meds, I haven't needed to take benzos for insomnia. In fact, I couldn't take benzos now even if I wanted to. Either way, if you do choose to check out what this is like, be careful. Feel free to post your subjective experience with it, because what I experience may be different than what you experience.

Are you saying you prefer the rush of diphenhydramine over the heroin rush?

You're a cheap date.

That sure is a funny way to put it man.

the rush from shooting diphenydrine (however you spell it) i find to be extremely rewarding.

it always burns, but that has become part of the enjoyment to me. i can feel the shot enter my veins, travel up my arm, then hit my heart. i then experience an immense rush (almost like i can feel it travel across my skin, not an internal rush) followed by a weird feeling of warmth in my anus and a lower feeling of warmth (but still noticable in my body)

To be honest, while I think you should start micron filtering or use a fraction of what you are now, I feel the same thing when you say "travel up my arm, then hit my heart" - this is a sensation I get every time when I do it, that's when the "mini-rush" exists. After it wears off (varying on a few factors on how long that will take) it's very much so like being on 0.5 mg to 1mg of lorazepam; calming, relaxing, but not "fucked up on xanax" like sedation. It's also not very addictive compared to orally consuming a benzo, etc.

Everything else you described, I have not experienced, as I use significantly lower doses than you, and I don't specifically like diphenhydramine hcl all that much.

resorting to name calling

Hey man, I don't mean to be picking on anyone, I like all Bluelighters that contribute to the forum, and so far that's what you're doing honestly, and that's what matters IMO.

6/7 was just joking around with you, he wasn't "name calling"; he didn't mean it in a derogatory way, it wasn't a racial slur, it wasn't a demeaning term, and I am sure he meant no disrespect by it.

Since I was addicted to heroin (and 99% of the time, I snorted it, I preferred the longer duration) for a while, I understand the humor here, as diphenhydramine is a relatively cheap OTC drug, compared to a long term heroin habit.

I can assure you that we mean no disrespect man, I appreciate your contribution. I think that your experience is unique, and that makes you different from most people on Bluelight, as a lot of us here have spent serious money on hard drug habits during a phase in our lives.

to be honest: im surprised i prefer it also, but ive found i do.

in any case, i guess the question that needs to be answered is, is injecting 64 sleepinal pills worse then using heroin?

I think that it is worse than using heroin, if you are not cotton filtering and then micron filtering. Talc are in those capsules, and this is dangerous for the lungs and other bodily organs. When you inject talc into your blood stream, it is filtered out in your lungs.

it is YOUR VERY THREAD, the one above, that gave me the idea to inject sleepinal. you lay it out for people step by step! you tell them the best pills to inject!!! i found it one day while trying to find methods of potentiating suboxone, months ago

and now youre going to close my thread after i use your method and develop a habit you dont believe? how ludacris

We post instructions on how to IV, so that others may do it safely.

It would be much worse if you were "heating" or "lighting' Your IV solution before drawing it back. It would be encouraging more inactive ingredients into the solution.

Nowhere in any of 6/7's threads nor posts does he mention that using such a large amount of diphenhydramine is a good idea; however, the IV effects of antihistamines tend to be slightly different from oral effects of antihistamines, kind of weird huh. Anyways, we can't be held accountable for what people do with the information they find here.

A lot of people may find posts/threads, etc in Other Drugs to be very triggering. I understand that is a problem, and that's why when people decide they want to be recovering from drugs/drug use, which is very admirable, we have a special part of Bluelight - The Dark Side, where triggering posts/talk isn't allowed. Obviously, it is hard to forsee into the future what you are likely to be triggered and/or not triggered by. However, it's your life, and you are accountable for yourself.

Once again, 6/7 does not mean any disrespect. You are welcome to discuss what you were talking about in this thread. Re-post it if you have to.

 

[DeLee]

Promethazine, given the new evidence that even ampoule, hospital setting IV Promethazine can cause gangrene and subsequent amputation should have us all screaming to change anti-histamines that you IV immediately.

Dude.., that is nott good news. Can you link to some source writiing about this?

 

[sixpartseven]

^ It's linked in the second post on the first page, and I posted the same info in the first post.

EDIT -

Here..I'll repost it for you...


http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/psn/transcript.cfm?show=93#1

FDA is requiring that promethazine hydrochloride injection products carry a boxed warning to communicate more strongly about the danger of giving the drug intravenously. The warning states that intra-arterial and subcutaneous administration of promethazine are contraindicated.

Promethazine is used as an antihistamine, a sedative and an antiemetic. Giving promethazine intravenously can result in severe tissue injury, including gangrene, which may require amputation. Because of this risk, the preferred route of administration is deep intramuscular injection.

If IV administration of promethazine is required, a maximum concentration of 25 mg/mL should be administered at a maximum rate of 25 mg/minute, through the tubing of an infusion set known to be functioning properly. The 50 mg/mL concentration should be used only for deep intramuscular injection.

Healthcare professionals should be alert to signs and symptoms of potential tissue injury, such as burning or pain at the administration site, phlebitis, swelling, and blistering. They should stop giving the drug immediately if a patient complains of pain. They should also tell patients receiving IV promethazine that side effects may occur immediately or develop hours to days after administration of the drug.

 

[Znegative]

oh man, that sounds horrid. Honestly, I think I.V bupe is probably dangerous enough (if its pills without a micron filter), and when I did this with benydryl it really didn't add much.

 

[Tchort]

I have injected Cyclizine multiple times while on MMT, and have not experienced anything post-injection (using 25mg and 50mg doses). I suppose the dose may not be high enough; but the Diconal tablets contained 30mg Cyclizine Hcl, so I don't understand what the problem is.

Orphenadrine might be added to the list, OTC in Canada and Rx in US. It is commonly IV'd with opioids as an anaglesic adjuvant in hospital settings. I'm not sure about recreational use, or if the anti-histamine IV'ing crowd has used it.

In the same way, Phenyltoloxamine and Cyclizine both have produced euphoria when taken orally while in moderate Methadone withdrawal (72-96 hours after the last Methadone dose). I have some Pyrilamine (aka Mepyramine) lying around to try, but with Phenyltoloxamine and to a lesser extent Cyclizine so cheap and readily available, I feel uneasy about the possibility of a shitty anti-histamine experience (a la Doxylamine, Cyproheptadine, Dimenhydrinate, etc). Next to the box of Diphenhydramine capsules I bought but have never injected, maybe one day.

 

[poppywonderland]

"IVing buprenorphine within 36 hours of your last dose of the full agonist will cause precipitated withdrawals."

well this happen even if I had buprenorphine this morning without any p/withdrawal issues? if so that doesn't really make sense to me because the bupe would have already knocked any other opiate off of my receptor i would think according to my understanding thus far of bupe...

 

[sixpartseven]

^ I'm not exactly sure what you're asking. Can you clarify?

 

[poppywonderland]

ok to clarify I was reading the first post in this forum and it says "IVing buprenorphine within 36 hours of your last dose of the full agonist will cause precipitated withdrawals." So.. is this true? is this statement for people who haven't had any yet and percusionarily they should wait 36 hours before there first dose of bupe? the last full opiate I had was I.V. Oxycodone at about 7 am yesterday. it is 2:30 pm today so it has been about 31 hours. and I had a small dose of bupe about 1 mg this morning at about 7 am.

So the base question is, if I was to I.V. bupe now, would I still go into p/w even with the above data since it has been less than "36 hours"?

 

[poppywonderland]

well I ived hydroxyzine and bupe and i felt nothing, i guess nothing is better than absolute terrible withdrawal..

 

[daddysgone]

ok to clarify I was reading the first post in this forum and it says "IVing buprenorphine within 36 hours of your last dose of the full agonist will cause precipitated withdrawals." So.. is this true? is this statement for people who haven't had any yet and percusionarily they should wait 36 hours before there first dose of bupe? the last full opiate I had was I.V. Oxycodone at about 7 am yesterday. it is 2:30 pm today so it has been about 31 hours. and I had a small dose of bupe about 1 mg this morning at about 7 am.

So the base question is, if I was to I.V. bupe now, would I still go into p/w even with the above data since it has been less than "36 hours"?

I think I understand what you are asking.
If you have already taken bupe this morning and had no precip WD, then you would be fine to IV it later in the day without worry of getting precip WD.

If u are going to IV bupe though, you really really should be micron filtering your pills. Many ppl think IV bupe isn't worth it. Im not going to debate that now, but what I will say is that it is CERTAINLY not worth the risk if you are not going to micron filter it (because there is a great deal of risk and very little reward).

BTW, some of your spelling is so far off, to the point of hilarity.
"Percusionarily"?? I assume you meant "precautionarily"...as in "to take a precaution".
"Percusionarily" sounds like something you do in order to create some sort of drum beat.

Im just messing with ya man-DG

 

[poppywonderland]

^ lol well I write and respond via a smart phone which isn't so smart, it tends to switch my words to the wrong words.

 

[sixpartseven]

ok to clarify I was reading the first post in this forum and it says "IVing buprenorphine within 36 hours of your last dose of the full agonist will cause precipitated withdrawals." So.. is this true? is this statement for people who haven't had any yet and percusionarily they should wait 36 hours before there first dose of bupe? the last full opiate I had was I.V. Oxycodone at about 7 am yesterday. it is 2:30 pm today so it has been about 31 hours. and I had a small dose of bupe about 1 mg this morning at about 7 am.

So the base question is, if I was to I.V. bupe now, would I still go into p/w even with the above data since it has been less than "36 hours"?

You could, yes. It really depends on too may things for me to be able to say yes or no with absolute certainty.

Even though you took 1mg this morning, you didn't IV it (I assume) and the dose was small, so that's why it didn't cause precipitated withdrawal. That 1mg is not enough to rip all of the remaining agonist off the receptors, so just because you were able to take some Suboxone sublignually without precipitated withdrawal DOES NOT mean you will not be thrown into withdrawal when you IV it. If you IV suboxone within 24 -36 hours of taking a full agonist (in this case, Oxycodone), there may still be some oxycodone present on the receptors, even though you're not feeling the effects of it, and IVing the Suboxone will rip it off the receptors, causing withdrawal, even if you did take 1mg sublingually already.

36 hours is the number we say because that is, typically, the longest any full agonist opiate will be active, so to be safe, we suggest waiting 36 hours even though you may only have to wait 24. I would always wait at least 24 hours, though. I have IVed Suboxone 24 hours after using heroin and it caused precipitated withdrawal for about 30 minutes.

But like I said, there is no way for us to tell you if it will cause withdrawal or not at this point. It can, but because the variables are different from person to person, there is no way to know for sure if you will be thrown into withdrawal. The best advice is to wait until you are in withdrawal before doing it, but since you already took Suboxone sublingually, that isn't an option. I would guess that at 36 hours, you'd be OK, but that's just a guess.

 

[poppywonderland]

^ yah I mean I understand that it is a guess, and that without absolute certainty I, nor anyone could not know the answer. I just thought that 1 mg (I snorted it) would have already caused the p/w issue if it was going to occur. But I guess not~ I did do it anyways, it just did nothing, I shot it with 25 mg of hydroxyzine. Darn needle fixation! I am just craving really bad on the suboxone, today is only day two so I would expect such a thing I guess. I am not in withdrawal in the least bit, I am just craving like a fiend is all.
Thank you~

 

[sixpartseven]

Buprenorphine is a very weird drug. That's my favorite thing about it, though. It always makes for some interesting discussions, and we seem to always be learning something about it, but sometimes it's almost impossible to give someone an answer when they ask a question about it, or explain why it did/didn't do something when it should/shouldn't have.

 

[poppywonderland]

yah I agree it seems to be quite strange. For me all of the experiences with it I just feel like I am on nothing, it brings me completely to base line so to speak. which is much better than the withdrawal I should be in. It just does almost nothing for my pain. oh well to each there own.

 

[sixpartseven]

Buprenorphine is pretty ineffective for pain if you have any sort of tolerance, and it keeping you at baseline - not any higher or lower - is the very reason it is used for opioid replacement therapy, and the very reason it works so well for most people who use it for ORT. Minimal risk for abuse.

 

[poppywonderland]

yah i was hoping it would help at least half as good as the meds I am supposed to be on currently but it's just giving me migraine, and I get REALLY bad ones. With an aura where its like I am trippen balls~ and if my I.M. sumatriptan doesn't take care of it, its to the er!

 

[sixpartseven]

Naloxone - the opiate antagonist in Suboxone - is known to cause headaches. You could ask your doctor to switch you to Subutex - buprenorphine only - if the headaches are that bad. It's quite common for doctors to switch patients because of these headaches.

Did you get these headaches before taking the Suboxone?