RCs Big n Dandy 4-FA (4-fluoroamphetamine) thread v.1.0

[Vader]

Yeah man, cheese is some serious shit, I'd stick with the designer amphetamines for the sake of safety.

 

[nuke]

^ So you're saying that all the three drugs were created to destroy neurons? I wonder what 4FA was created for...
Thanks for that, I learned something today.

No problem. The three drugs weren't really designed per say but incidentally discovered in the 60's when there was a big push to find drugs that could me administered to mice to emulate disease states such as depression or schizophrenia so that drugs could attempted to be created to treat the disease states they induced. They had been synthesized quite a while before, though. There are a few books full of research from the 60's and 70's that pertains the synthesis and effects of monoaminergic neurotoxins.

A part of the field which is sort of a large oversight is norepinephrinergic neuronal toxicity, DA and 5HT received disproportionate amounts of research attention.

 

[3rd_I_blind]

^Sir, I am a seller of cheeses, you are (I presume) Dutch, I hope we can agree that there is no such thing as "over-aged cheese". Do you not appreciate a fine oude kaas?

I'm Dutch yes, and although I do not particularly like oude kaas, you are probably right and I think the problem lies with translation... With over-aged, I meant cheese beyond a certain age (like 'overjarig' in Dutch). Generally speaking, the older the cheese the higher the tyramine content and thus the more likely and adverse reaction when eating said cheese while taking MAOIs.

I didn't get the joke though, what do you mean?

The funny part was that you admitted to combining a MOAI with dexedrine and 4-FMP, and were happily proclaiming that 'even eating cheese does not cause me problems!'. It's especially funny when taken out of context, where it comes down to comparing 50-100 grams of cheese with 100-150 mg of 4-FMP. It had nothing to do with dick cheese of any kind or age whatsoever.

 

[titstypedthis]

anyone know how soluble 4-fa is in water?

like a ratio..
not a generalization

 

[3rd_I_blind]

My educated guess would be about 1 to 10, you could always try water with a bit of acid to increase solubility.

 

[Issac Sinclair]

So my friend took some and hes on Lexapro. It was an oral dose, he said it made him feel better until he got back to his depressing home. Almost no effect or so he says. On a low dose though, like 50mg just to check it out.

 

[girlygrrl]

Cleaner, less intense, slightly less empathogenic, longer-lasting meph. Think meph meets ordinary amphetamine. More euphoric than regular amp, less so than meph, more empathogenic than amp, less so than meph, longer-lasting than meph, and from my experiences, very mellow comedown - actually more like a plateau reminiscent of acid, as opposed to a "crash" like many empathogenics.

Don't expect it to blow your socks off like meph does when it start rushing; it's basically speed that feels a bit better in the beginning half and feels decidedly less shit towards the end.

Well I love the hell out of meph, but I am finding that it gives me ADD...if 4-fa can give me the same kind of stim but where it helps me focus instead of gives me more add then it would be a big winner. I do meph mostly for the stim rather than the euphoria, the euphoria is fun, but I like how it gives me energy without being jittery like caffeine.

Basically meph has a special place in my heart and I'll always love it but if I want to sit down and get to work for six hours on a project and focus cleanly it sounds like 4-fa may be able to provide me with that? It does cost more than meph, but meph is probably going to get banned soon...

 

[coelophysis]

Basically meph has a special place in my heart

The valves

 

[girlygrrl]

^ hahaha nice

 

[trancerage]

Hi guys, anyone has ever mixed this with MDMA?

Im just looking for a push to the MDMA roll, I do not want to be floored, and I cannot get a hold on any stims besides this (I actually already have it)... I was thinking 80 mg should add the wanted stim, what do you gusy think?

 

[titstypedthis]

^ yes do it.



Does anyone have any information about the stereochemistry of 4-fa?
like whats more active levo or dextro 4-fa?

 

[3rd_I_blind]

Does anyone have any information about the stereochemistry of 4-fa?
like whats more active levo or dextro 4-fa?

High probability that both stereoisomers are active, just as with 'normal' amphetamine. If so, it's more about which 'activity' you prefer: dopaminergic or noradrenergic (although most people will obviously prefer dopaminergic activity).

 

[titstypedthis]

^I ask because i have a sample, its definitely 4-fa and its certainly very pure.
I've recrystallized multiple times and gotten back almost all of it, i am absolutely certain of its purity.

except a threshhold dose is around 200-400mg and i've found i get the best effect from about an entire gram..


Now i've had 4-fa from elsewhere before and it was how everyone in this thread reports it.. active at 30-40mg.. strong effects from 200-300mg, any more and its overkill.

 

[3rd_I_blind]

Just three question:
- Do you have an NMR or GC-MS-MS at home? If not, how can you be so sure that it is genuine 4-FA, while everything you report suggests it is anything but 4-FA?
- Did you wash the crystals before recrystallization and if so, with which solvent(s) did you wash the crystals?
- How likely do you think it is that anyone would bother with a stereoselective synthesis of 4-FA, and then on top of that: How likely would it be that said person would then choose to produce a stereoisomer of almost zero activity?

 

[titstypedthis]

just 4 answer 4 u:

-no don't be a cock, i barely have enough for a kettle.
-I can be certain it is 4-fa by its reaction to marquis reagent
-no
-If someone knew what they were doing i'd agree, but cutting costs by using another route is a great way too save thousands in chemical synthesis.


So my question too you is:
Do you know anyone who has any constructive information about the stereoisomers of 4-fa?
refer them here please.


AND.. just in response to your statement above regarding regular levo-amphetamine, i'd like to state that levo-amphetamine is in no way even close to being a contemporary of dextro-amphetamines potency and obvious subjective effects.

So if we assume 4-fa follows the same rule as amphetamine, we can assume levo-4-fa is bound to be far weaker with subjectively less focusing and pleasant effects.
my experiences support this, but i'd like confirmation from someone who has tasted both isomers separately.

Better yet can i do an isomeric separation at home, easily?!?!?!

 

[3rd_I_blind]

If you haven't washed the crystals, recrystallization does not provide a lot of evidence for purity. Furthermore, marquis reagent should primarily be used for negative identification (i.e. 'it is not...'). There are possibly hundreds of different chemicals that all give the same reaction as 4-FA. Besides that, heavily cut 4-FA might also still give a normal reaction with marquis.

You cannot do an isomeric separation at home.

My advice is to abandon the idea you are stuck with levorotary 4-FA and start searching for another vendor.

 

[titstypedthis]

8)

would anhydrous acetone be suitable to wash it with?

How does 4-fa recrystallize? can you provide a description of the crystal structure? a photo?

Why can't i perform an isomeric separation? what is involved?

Seriously if you cannot answer these questions, stfu please.

I'm not going to give up my hunt for answers because a single fucking self proclaimed expert tells me too on a forum that frankly, is full of textbook professors.

I'd like to think that bluelight does actually have a place for real analytical science on it, but so far i have been let down by you 'harm reductionists' with nothing but pure speculation and unwarranted doubt.

 

[3rd_I_blind]

If anyone on here sounds like a 'textbook professor', it is you. Asking for a photo of the crystal structure, what were you planning on doing with that? Put your 4-FMP under the microscope and see if it matches?

You can probably wash 4-FMP with cooled anhydrous acetone.

You can't perform an isomeric separation because:
1. You don't know what's involved
2. You can't pay what's involved
3. You seem to be lacking the required general knowledge of chemistry to not fuck it up

It's just hilarious how you are so convinced that someone sold you levorotary 4-FMP instead of just crappy shit or 4-FMP cut with crappy shit... I pride myself on being called a textbook professor by someone of your level.

 

[titstypedthis]

You can't perform an isomeric separation because:
1. You don't know what's involved
2. You can't pay what's involved
3. You seem to be lacking the required general knowledge of chemistry to not fuck it up

1.SO TELL ME!
2.I don't know that until you tell me.
3.You seem to like pretending you have chemical knowledge by denying that knowledge to the person asking.

SO please, give me a helping hand, not condemnation or pity, neither is helping you or me.

 

[3rd_I_blind]

If you would not tell me to 'stfu' and respect what I have told you so far, I would be glad to tell you what you need. However, as I tried to explain to you before: Since this is all drug-business, the chance is more than 99% that you just got sold something shitty or something that's not 4-FMP. It's okay if you keep insisting that it is genuine 4-FMP, just try to understand that EZ-test is never 100% reliable evidence. Especially not with a substance like 4-FMP which does not give that much of a typical colour anyway...

For an isomeric separation, you would basically need a pressure system (like HPLC) with a chiral column or a column based on - for instance - specific cyclodextrins. Both are not readily available to the general public, and quite expensive. For some substances, you could try a stereospecific crystallization with an optically active resolving agent like tartaric acid. However, it seems to me that this approach is not fit for 4-FMP, especially not since you would first have to convert the (likely) HCl salt to freebase 4-FMP.