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    MDMA vs Meth vs Amphetamines 
    #1
    Bluelighter bluemanthief's Avatar
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    I am kinda an amateur drug-enthusiast, however, no matter how much I look, I can never seem to get solid, distinguishing differences between MDMA, Meth, Speed, and just ALL amphetamines in general. Aren't they all the same? How are they different? And why are some worse for you than others?

    A wise person please inform me!

    The BMT
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    #2
    Bluelight Crew RGB's Avatar
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    The story begins with phenethylamine, which is the skeleton on which amphetamine is based. MDMA and methamphetamine are elaborations on the amphetamine skeleton, but small variances in their structure significantly change their binding affinity, their permeability, and their longevity in the body.

    I recommend you read Shulgin's entry on phenethylamine from PiHKAL if you want an excellent overview of this important chemical and its relationship to the rest of the ring-substituted phenethylamines (which include amphetamine, MDA, MDMA, methamphetamine, the 2Cx's, DOx's, etc.): PiHKAL: PEA

    If you have any specific questions feel free to ask. You should probably know that your question in its original form is a huge one that you could approach from many angles.
    Last edited by RGB; 14-04-2010 at 10:43.
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    #3
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    MDMA is not addictive.. habit forming yes but not necessarily addictive. The high is more euphoric, emotional, and visual than the other two.

    Meth is addictive. It can be smoked and I believe the high does not last nearly as long as MDMA. I could be mistaken. Meth will also keep you up for days if you do it enough.

    Speed is like E in my opinion without the visuals, euphoria, emotional, and auditory affects. It just makes you want to move constantly for hours.

    Hope it helps.. I've done E and speed.. Like doing E but wont do speed again..
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    #4
    If you are talking about the effects:

    MDMA makes you very euphoric and loving, gives you a tingling feeling all over your body and a little increase in energy. Doesn't necessarily make you want to dance all night. You could have weird thoughts and simple tasks may become difficult.

    Amphetamine gives you just a little bit of the physical feelings of MDMA, but a lot more energy. Doing nothing is really hard, concentration is improved. Thoughts stay pretty clear, would still be possible to do normal things.

    I have no experience with meth (don't want any either), but I think it's basically speed but a lot stronger, longer-lasting and more toxic.
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    #5
    Bluelighter guy1234's Avatar
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    MDMA:
    effects- very very very euphoric (extreme happiness), loads of love, your body feels perfect but not always energetic. its mainly about the happy. you can usually sleep on MDMA
    dangers: not many, it is the third safest popular drug in britain, coming before alcohol, cannabis, nicotine, valium etc

    amphetamine:
    effects- energy and restlessness, happiness and well being but no heavenly bliss, want to walk and move, does not let you sleep, messiness and such, mainly about the tweaky energy
    dangers- can give you stimulant psychosis, keeps you up, comedown, is very addictive (physically and mentally), tolerance skyrockets quickly, damages neurotransmitter receptors for dopamine (and possibly serotonin) the list is endless...

    methamphetamine (crystal meth):
    effects- like regular amphetamine but much stronger, for longer, more happiness, mainly about the hardcore speeding, tweaking
    dangers- very toxic, much more addictive, can keep you up for well over a week, everything regular amphetamine has and more

    so MDMA is very lovey and happy and relatively safer, the other two are about energy and tweakiness and some happy aswell. the difference is so obvious to me but when i try and explain it, MDMA and amphetamine sound pretty similar in effects which they aren't really. you just need to know the roles each characteristic plays. like in MDMA the main thing is love, happiness, bliss, like floating on a cloud style of thing. for speed (both kinds) its about the energy, fastness, chattiness and the happiness that comes from those.
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    #6
    Bluelighter Keaton's Avatar
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    And *I believe* that they all show up the same on a drug test. Someone correct me if that's wrong.
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    #7
    Technically, no amphetamines are physically addictive, at least not in the way alcohol, opiates and other downers are. There is no withdrawal syndrome that occurs when quitting stimulants, other than the fatigue and overeating that sometimes occur. Highly psychologically addictive--yes. Physically...no.

    What's puzzling to me is why MDA is more potent, neurotoxic and long-lasting than MDMA, which contains "methamphetamine"--the most potent amphetamine. Any ideas?
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    #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Codone View Post
    Technically, no amphetamines are physically addictive, at least not in the way alcohol, opiates and other downers are. There is no withdrawal syndrome that occurs when quitting stimulants, other than the fatigue and overeating that sometimes occur. Highly psychologically addictive--yes. Physically...no.

    What's puzzling to me is why MDA is more potent, neurotoxic and long-lasting than MDMA, which contains "methamphetamine"--the most potent amphetamine. Any ideas?
    From somebody who had a physical problem with amphetamine and went through major withdrawls when I stopped I would have to disagree with this statement.

    My withdrawl from speed abuse was way more than overeating!
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    #9
    And why are some worse for you than others?
    These drugs (MDMA, amphetamine, meth) seem to be fairly similar in terms of the overall strain they place on the body. (I would say MDMA is worse for your cognitive health, while amphetamine/meth are worse for your physical health, particularly your heart.)

    What probably makes the biggest difference in terms of long-term health consequences is the patterns of use. People might take MDMA once every few months, but amphetamine/meth users tend to use more often and for longer periods (such as meth addicts, who may stay high, going without sleep for days or even a week strait at a time, crash for a few days, then repeat the cycle.)

    MDMA can be addictive. It's not very addictive, but it can and does happen. It can be difficult to draw a clear line between physical dependence vs. psychological addiction, since most cases involve elements of both.

    And *I believe* that they all show up the same on a drug test. Someone correct me if that's wrong.
    Yes, they can all trigger the common drug tests for amphetamine. Drug testing is typically a two-step process; the first step uses a color-changing test (much like a pregnancy test.) *If* that test shows a positive, a second test will be run (using a big expensive lab machine called a GC/MS) to double-check that it really is amphetamine (or whatever) and not a false positive. The first (screening) test can't tell the difference between MDMA, amphetamine or meth; they'll all show up as a positive for amphetamines. The confirmation test, however, will nail down exactly what it is.

    What's puzzling to me is why MDA is more potent, neurotoxic and long-lasting than MDMA, which contains "methamphetamine"--the most potent amphetamine. Any ideas?
    I suspect it's due to a stronger stimulant effect, which may increase overheating, which in turn is a key factor in the neurotoxicity of these amphetamines.
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    #10
    Bluelighter Keaton's Avatar
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    ^ thank you for explaining that.
    Great post DEA.
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    #11
    Bluelighter sheepie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Codone View Post
    What's puzzling to me is why MDA is more potent, neurotoxic and long-lasting than MDMA, which contains "methamphetamine"--the most potent amphetamine. Any ideas?
    That's like saying "Water contains oxygen, yet we cannot breathe it. Any ideas?"

    Two molecules can have amphetamine groups and have completely different effects. It's more coincidence that meth and amp have similar effects. Adding different groups to an amphetamine or any other group for that matter completely changes the properties of the substance.
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    #12
    Bluelighter Sweet P's Avatar
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    The biggest distinction between MDMA and meth/amphetamines, in my experience, is that meth/amphetamines are far more addictive and they lack the empathogen and entactogen qualities that MDMA has. Of course, there are a lot more differences between the drugs, but those seem to be the main ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by MD Specialist View Post
    Meth is addictive. It can be smoked and I believe the high does not last nearly as long as MDMA. I could be mistaken.
    Meth has a half-life of 9-15 hours, while MDMA has a half-life of 6-10 hours. The "high" usually doesn't last this entire time, but the duration of a meth high is still noticeably longer than an MDMA high.
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    #13
    sadly none of it is around hey
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    #14
    Bluelight Crew Vader's Avatar
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    the ring-substituted phenethylamines (which include amphetamine, MDA, MDMA, methamphetamine, the 2Cx's, DOx's, etc.)
    I was under the impression that ring substituted meant that the substitution was on the benzene ring, which would exclude amp/meth as they are substituted on the side chain. Could someone explain this to me please?
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    #15
    Bluelight Crew RGB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yerg View Post
    I was under the impression that ring substituted meant that the substitution was on the benzene ring, which would exclude amp/meth as they are substituted on the side chain. Could someone explain this to me please?
    You're absolutely right -- that was a pretty glaring typo on my part. They're just substituted phenethylamines rather than ring-substituted phenethylamines specifically (which, as you said, would require an addition to the ring and not just the alpha and beta carbons).
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    #16
    Bluelight Crew Vader's Avatar
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    Thanks man, I thought I had some gaping hole in my understanding for a minute there.
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    #17
    Bluelighter Juice.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bearlove View Post
    From somebody who had a physical problem with amphetamine and went through major withdrawls when I stopped I would have to disagree with this statement.

    My withdrawl from speed abuse was way more than overeating!
    I agree. You can be physically addicted to amphetamines just as you can become physically addicted to opiates. Amphetamines downregulate and damage dopamine receptors. If they're used daily, and than abruptly halted, the users dopaminergic system will not be operating at a normal level as it has adjusted to being heavily stimulated by amphetamines. The user will be unmotivated, unproductive, and depressed. Just like an opiate addict is physically addicted to opiates when his body has stopped producing natural endorphins, you can be physically addicted to amphetamines when you require it for normal dopaminergic activity in my opinion.
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    #18
    Bluelighter Sweet P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bearlove View Post
    From somebody who had a physical problem with amphetamine and went through major withdrawls when I stopped I would have to disagree with this statement.

    My withdrawl from speed abuse was way more than overeating!
    Quote Originally Posted by Juice. View Post
    I agree. You can be physically addicted to amphetamines just as you can become physically addicted to opiates. Amphetamines downregulate and damage dopamine receptors. If they're used daily, and than abruptly halted, the users dopaminergic system will not be operating at a normal level as it has adjusted to being heavily stimulated by amphetamines. The user will be unmotivated, unproductive, and depressed. Just like an opiate addict is physically addicted to opiates when his body has stopped producing natural endorphins, you can be physically addicted to amphetamines when you require it for normal dopaminergic activity in my opinion.
    Absolutely true. Withdrawals aren't always physical. Psychological withdrawals (such an anxiety, panic, depression, aggression, mental fatigue, and so on) can be as debilitating as physical withdrawals - just in different ways. They should never be underestimated.
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    #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Codone View Post
    Technically, no amphetamines are physically addictive, at least not in the way alcohol, opiates and other downers are. There is no withdrawal syndrome that occurs when quitting stimulants, other than the fatigue and overeating that sometimes occur. Highly psychologically addictive--yes. Physically...no.

    What's puzzling to me is why MDA is more potent, neurotoxic and long-lasting than MDMA, which contains "methamphetamine"--the most potent amphetamine. Any ideas?
    I think mda is more neurotoxic and long lasting is 1) It directly stimulates the 5-HT2a receptor a lot stronger than MDMA. 2) It releases more dopamine and norepinephrine than MDMA, which will keep you up longer. 3) Less serotonin than MDMA is released, combined with directly stimulating the 5-HT2a receptor abnormally leads to psychedelic states that cause one to think deeper and longer, IMO.
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    #20
    Bluelighter guy1234's Avatar
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    when i say amphetamine i mean amphetamine sulphate btw. also when i said physically addictive i more meant psychological withdrawals manifesting themselves in physical ways (over-eating, panic attacks, insomnia, over-somnia blah blah, just examples, not nessecarily relevant).
    i'm assuming your body cannot become truely physically dependant on amphetamines because the entire high happens because they release and inhibit the reuptake of neurotransmitters, am i right? therefore the body does not become physically dependant on the presence of the chemical. however when tolerance builds the brain becomes used to overproduction of those chemicals and when use ceases, there is a rebound which is not TECHNICALLY a withdrawal but for most intents and purposes you could call it that as it is negative effects on cesation of use even though biologically it is not.
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    #21
    Bluelighter Keaton's Avatar
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    Yes, they can all trigger the common drug tests for amphetamine. Drug testing is typically a two-step process; the first step uses a color-changing test (much like a pregnancy test.) *If* that test shows a positive, a second test will be run (using a big expensive lab machine called a GC/MS) to double-check that it really is amphetamine (or whatever) and not a false positive. The first (screening) test can't tell the difference between MDMA, amphetamine or meth; they'll all show up as a positive for amphetamines. The confirmation test, however, will nail down exactly what it is.
    Interesting development, I was recently tested using a "First check at home drug test" that claims it can differentiate between MDMA and other amphetamines. Well it turns out that it can in fact differentiate between the two.
    Two days before my surprise test I rolled. The day before my test I did not take my methylphenidate. I tested clean for methamphetamine, and positive for MDMA.
    This is not terribly important information but I just thought it should be put out there that there ARE at home drug tests that can differentiate between MDMA and other amphetamines.
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    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by NationOfThizzlam View Post
    Interesting development, I was recently tested using a "First check at home drug test" that claims it can differentiate between MDMA and other amphetamines. Well it turns out that it can in fact differentiate between the two.
    Two days before my surprise test I rolled. The day before my test I did not take my methylphenidate. I tested clean for methamphetamine, and positive for MDMA.
    This is not terribly important information but I just thought it should be put out there that there ARE at home drug tests that can differentiate between MDMA and other amphetamines.
    Methylphenidate (Ritalin,concerta) is NOT an amphetamine or even in that family. It is much closer related to cocaine. That is why it does not test positive for amps
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    #23
    Bluelighter Keaton's Avatar
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    It shows as an amphetamine. In every drug test ive ever had.
    Unless DEA, RGB or Yerg say otherwise I'm not convinced that methylphenidate doesn't show as an amphetamine.
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    #24
    Quote Originally Posted by NationOfThizzlam View Post
    It shows as an amphetamine. In every drug test ive ever had.
    Unless DEA, RGB or Yerg say otherwise I'm not convinced that methylphenidate doesn't show as an amphetamine.
    Google it, brah
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    #25
    I love me some methylphenidate btw, it feels like a better pure version of coke with less come down. Plus improved mood and focused, it's great!
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