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Thread: Equivalent doses of Ativan, Klonopin, and Valium?

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    Equivalent doses of Ativan, Klonopin, and Valium? 
    #1
    The internet is full of tables of equivalent benzodiazepine doses for people who are taking the drugs daily and are trying to discontinue, but I am curious about the equivalence ratios if you are taking the drugs as-needed, acutely, and not every day. I can't decide what the equivalence ratios for Ativan (lorazepam), Klonopin (clonazepam), and Valium (diazepam) are.

    I have heard that 0.5 mg Klonopin = 2 mg Valium, but I have also read on the internet that 0.5 mg Klonopin = 10 mg Valium. That is quite a large range. I personally feel that it might be 0.5 mg Klonopin = 3 mg Valium, but I can't decide.

    I find Klonopin to be a bit more potent than Ativan, but I can't decide how much more potent. 0.5 mg Klonopin = 0.5 to 1 mg Ativan, somewhere in that range.

    I think I may like Klonopin the most because it lasts the longest. I find that if I take 0.5 mg Klonopin one evening, I feel a very pleasant "afterglow" the next day marked by mild anxiety relief.

    Please, add your opinions, add your experiences, add your estimates at the equivalence ratios. I suspect the equivalence ratios may not be linear.
     

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    #2
    BL Ambassador Captain.Heroin's Avatar
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    0.5mg clonazepam = 1mg lorazepam = 10mg diazepam

    Equivalency tables are easy to find via google.

    Equivalencies are only but so accurate, since not everyone experiences benzodiazepines differently.

    This isn't an OD topic, so I'm going to close this. sending this over to Basic Drug Discussion (BDD).

    I'll add in my experience once it's over there. On reconsideration this thread may be useful in the area of harm reduction by helping people note what benzo equivalencies may be more or less accurate than benzo equivalency charts for individuals. Not everyone uses them daily or infrequently, and not everyone is sensitive or insensitive to them, so your personal experience may go to help someone else.

    -> BDD
    Last edited by Captain.Heroin; 04-04-2010 at 12:08.
     

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    Equipotent Doses of Benzos - For C.H. 
    #3
    BL Ambassador Captain.Heroin's Avatar
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    Capsule
    I've tried my fair share of benzodiazepines. And there's only one I am not going to report doses for; clonazepam. For myself, personally, I have only experienced a paradoxical reaction every time I take clonazepam. None of the other benzodiazepines have caused a PR in myself, hence there's no way for me to relatively compare clonazepam to other benzodiazepines, for myself.

    For the others, I will list the benzo, ROA (route of administration), and common doses/dose ranges. If there is a dose range I'll explain further below in an asterisk (for example, one dose - how much I will take of the benzo, two doses - two amounts I will take for different reasons/effects/degrees of effect). If there's multiple ROA's I have used with the benzo, I will list them together (if the dose is the same either way), or separately (if the dose is different depending on ROA).

    I'll list the dosages/ROA's/benzos after I rank the benzodiazepines by preference/likability. A lower number = a better preference. I have no preference for clonazepam (as it has no preferable effects for myself) so I won't bother ranking it, but you can obviously consider it the last on my list for all intensive purposes. Interestingly, I find in the thread in BDD where people list their benzo preferences, that nearly everyone's preferences for benzos are unique, though their favorites/least favorites might coincide occasionally, or there might be trends among favorites/least favorites (midazolam, triazolam, and temazepam are considered the cream of the crop from most subjective reports, for people who have had their fair share of benzos and have tried these, those three are most likely their favorites or at least one is most likely to be their favorite).

    [1]Temazepam
    [2]Loprazolam
    [3]Midazolam
    [4]Flurazepam
    [5]Triazolam
    [6]Alprazolam
    [7]Diazepam
    [8]Lorazepam

    And now for equivalent doses. Since this forum doesn't do tabs/tables well, I'll space out each item like this; Benzo | ROA | Dose/Dose Range. A note on ROA; oral means taken whole orally, except for temazepam or flurazepam, in which I take via parachute (still taken orally, but the capsule is emptied into toilet paper, tied off at the end, and chugged with a fair amount of water to aid absorption, also known as parachuting, and occasionally also known as "bombing" a dose).

    Temazepam | Oral | 7.5mg to 15mg - *
    Loprazolam | IV | 0.3mg
    Midazolam | IV | 2mg
    Midazolam | Oral | 3.75mg
    Flurazepam | IV | 3mg
    Flurazepam | Oral | 5mg **
    Triazolam | Sublingual | 0.25mg
    Alprazolam | Oral | 0.5mg
    Diazepam | Oral | 5mg
    Lorazepam | Sublingual, Oral | 0.5mg to 1mg ***


    |
    * Temazepam - 7.5mg is always my dose, and I only take 15mg if I am on stimulants or psychedelics and badly need to get to sleep. 7.5mg is a recreational dose or a medicinal dose for daytime anxiety, and 15mg is a medicinal dose for insomnia or to counteract other drugs if absolutely necessary.
    ** Flurazepam - sometimes I take a little less than 5mg to combine with another benzo, particularly temazepam. That specific combination is the only preferable benzo combo that I can think of.
    *** Lorazepam - 0.5mg is a dose that I would take to be able to sit still for many hours on end, for a class; without being sedated. 1mg is what I would take for anxiety, or for recreational effects.
     

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    #4
    there are tons of thread about this, but for me, .5mg kpin=5mg of valium=.5mg of ativan. before i had a had any tolerance, i would have said .7mg of kpin=5mg of valium=1mg of ativan. valium seems to loose its effect like crazy. how much of which benzo i have been taking as of late affects this as well. I've somehow gotten it so .5mg of ativan is more present than 5mg of valium, when it used to be such the opposite. kpin is the worst of the benzos; great if nothing else is there, but otherwise it's negligible.
     

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    #5
    Bluelighter bfisher's Avatar
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    people can use these converter/charts all they want, theres no ammount of ativan u can take to make u feel the same as valium, n vice versa.
     

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    #6
    ^true but irrelevant. that's not what these charts are about.
     

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    #7
    Bluelighter Violenza666's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Heroin View Post
    0.5mg clonazepam = 1mg lorazepam = 10mg diazepam


    -> BDD
    Seriously? .5 klonopin is 10mg of valium? Damn the differences in those medications are interesting. Maybe I prefer the valium because it's new.. but I definatly think there is more euphoria. Theres none with klonopin for me.,, however in ways euphoria is not being a nervous wreck.. I guess they both have their advantages.
     

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    #8
    Bluelighter Psychedelic Jay's Avatar
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    Not all benzos effect the same parts of the receptor the same way.
    I really think that those comparisons are an estimate on how much sedation is achieved in non tolerant people.
     

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    #9
    Bluelighter Violenza666's Avatar
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    ^Yea, I do too because Klonopin wont "sedate" me.
     

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    #10
    Bluelighter Psychedelic Jay's Avatar
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    I strongly disagree on people using this chart, because it could lead to people taking an an absurd amount of sedating benzos to match the anxiety reducing benzos, leading to more blackouts.

    I can handle 5-6mgs of alprazolam, but no way will I take 150-180mgs of temazepam
     

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    #11
    Are you people saying they receive Euphoria from Benzos? Earlier I took 2mg Xanax followed by 150mg Codeine an hour later. Was pretty nice I suppose. Now I've taken a 1mg Xanax and I really do not experience the euphoria people describe. I noted Temazepam gave me incredible double vision, paragrpahs I was reading were moving all around the screen. I also distinctly remember zolpidem-like hallucinations when I was going to sleep.

    Hey, each to their own I suppose. I'm gonna have to give Valium 20mg a go at some point. I've been dissapointed in the past but perhaps I was not looking hard enough.
     

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    #12
    Bluelighter woamotive's Avatar
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    MikeHawk: I'd say if 2mg xanax doesn't do shit to you you'll need more than 20mg diazepam. You would need at least 30-40mg, in my opinion, to 'enjoy' it.
     

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    #13
    Bluelighter Psychedelic Jay's Avatar
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    ^True.

    Take this slow, or you may be in for a surprise.

    Don't look for a "slam, in your face" euphoria, it won't happen.
     

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    #14
    Bluelighter themdyaunome's Avatar
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    In my opinion .5mg clonazepam=.5mg alprazolam=1mg lorazepam=5mg diazepam. However from personal experience diazepam doesnt even compare to the others because it has almost no affect on me except slight sedation. Ive only taken valium three times in my life, the most Ive taken was 80mg. I felt no effect whatsoever other than a little sleepy, and that was before I was prescribed 3mg xanax a day. I cant imagine it would have any effect on me nowadays unless I took well over 100mg. But hey, diazepam is a favorite of some people. To each their own I guess. Also, ativan also has much less of an effect on me than xanax and klonopin. I agree with woamotive, if 2mg of xanax doesnt do anything for you then I would say take at least 40mg of valium. Benzo's are safe in moderately high doses so you'll be fine, just be careful when mixing with other sedatives.
     

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    #15
    It's amazing how quickly Xanax tolerance rises. I want one now to come down from Butylone (the best drug I've ever tried except it has such a HORRID comedown) but I'm going to refrain.
     

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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by themdyaunome View Post
    However from personal experience diazepam doesnt even compare to the others because it has almost no affect on me except slight sedation.
    crazy, i would say of xanax, kpin, halcion, ativan and valium, valium is the only benzo for me that produces what i would call a "high" on its own. though they all feel good. kpin's my least favorite.
     

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    #17
    Bluelighter opiatekrzy's Avatar
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    i have a high xanax tolerance 8mg for relief, i taken 100mg valium im RXed, no effect, now when i had 0 tolerance to benzo's 10mg valium was SO euphoric, it lasted a few days, popped 80 of the 5mg ones in2 days no effect...my doc said 10mg valium=1mg xanax, true?
     

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    #18
    well i have only taken klonopin, ativan, and xanax.

    i am currently prescribed 0.5 mg klonopin 4 times a day. for me its 0.5 klonopin is 1 mg ativan is 0.5 mg xanax.

    my favorite was actually ativan. very subtle. no euphoria ever for any of these though. i would love to try valium though.

    maybe its cause i really have anxiety? i would of loved to of taken some of my klonopin back in my free easy no anxiety days! now i cant tell when i take any of them except my anxiety seems to go down very slightly.

    i actually wish now that they were never prescribed to me. some drugs i would of been better off if i never knew they existed and had to deal with the problem myself instead of depending on pills everyday.
     

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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by allecw View Post
    well i have only taken klonopin, ativan, and xanax.

    i am currently prescribed 0.5 mg klonopin 4 times a day. for me its 0.5 klonopin is 1 mg ativan is 0.5 mg xanax.

    my favorite was actually ativan. very subtle. no euphoria ever for any of these though. i would love to try valium though.

    maybe its cause i really have anxiety? i would of loved to of taken some of my klonopin back in my free easy no anxiety days! now i cant tell when i take any of them except my anxiety seems to go down very slightly.

    i actually wish now that they were never prescribed to me. some drugs i would of been better off if i never knew they existed and had to deal with the problem myself instead of depending on pills everyday.
    I think kpin is pretty euphoric, just me though
     

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    #20
    For me I would say 1mg xanax=1 mg klonopin=1 mg ativan=10 mgs valium=2 mgs (possiblly cut) phenazepam. Other than duration I dought I could tell them apart. Which isn't a bad thing, I like them all. Temazepam I want to try, everyone seems to love it.
     

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    #21
    Bluelighter phatass's Avatar
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    For me 1mg xanax=2mg klonopin=10mg Valium... clonazepam doesn't do shit for me.... xanax packs the biggest punch of the non-hypnotics, valium is the most relaxing of the non-hypnotics.. IMO / IME
     

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    #22
    No experience with lorazepam (Ativan), but I find clonazepam kicks the shit out of diazepam. 2mg clonazepam is a lot better than 40mg diazepam - around 50-60mg diazepam will I start noticing any effects, and still they're very subtle. Diazepam is like a jack-of-all-trades, it does a little of everything but not a whole lot of anything. Clonazepam is pretty euphoric for me.

    Since others brought in Xanax, I think I'd say something like 0.5mg Alprazolam = 0.7mg Clonazepam = 15mg Diazepam, in terms of how strong I perceive them to be.
     

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    #23
    Greenlighter
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    What sets benzos apart is their rate of absorption: the quicker they get into the blood stream the quicker they work, AND the quicker they are gone. Their side-effects are different, between one benzo and the next, and for one person and the next. And then, they are unknowns when given to those on the Autism spectrum, since meds always work differently for us folks. Its a toss of the dice to see what the effects will be. Have to try to see whether they are worth the taking. I've never had any "euphoria" from any benzo I have taken. Whoa, didn't know that that was an option. )-: (They are only minimally helpful with my anxiety, and in fact, the new antipsychotic Seroquel has given me the best results overall.) Did you know too that the lower the dose taken to get the desired result the better because any increase beyond that "lowest dose" will begin to give the opposite results? So, less is best, and pushing that only means you lose any beneficial effect sooner.
     

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    #24
    Quote Originally Posted by phatass View Post
    For me 1mg xanax=2mg klonopin=10mg Valium... clonazepam doesn't do shit for me.... xanax packs the biggest punch of the non-hypnotics, valium is the most relaxing of the non-hypnotics.. IMO / IME
    I can agree with that word for word.
     

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    #25
    Bluelight Crew effie's Avatar
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    Hi WhiteHare, thank you for your contribution and welcome

    We have a benzo conversion chart in the header at the top of our forum - people are different though and it is never going to be 100% accurate for everyone. Benzos come in different "flavours" too (more anxiolytic, more hypnotic, more euphoric) and durations, and often a lot comes down to individual preference as well.

    Closing as old thread (we're now a quick q&a forum, check guidelines and state of BDD sticky at top of forum) - PM me with any queries
     

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