The Mephedrone Thread (4-mmc) version HR+ 2.0

[MrIbis]

I didn't want to take a shot at him at all, i just felt it worthwhile to point out the flaws in his logic.

and im not suggesting that anyone take those amounts, i for sure didn't.

as by the no noticeable effects - i said that meaning exactly as it was written - thus why i gave the an example.

I thinkin eating that much is a bad thing too - i just don't think he has much of a clue about the pharmacology/pharmacodynamics of this particular chemical to make off-beat comments on the particulars. Anyone who intends to mess with research chemicals should at least trawl through the hordes of knowledge available online so as to better arm themselves with some defensive strategies, or at least first aid knowledge in how to deal with side effects should they arise.

Sykik: I think your particular quotes here take my post out of context as a personal attack, when if you read the whole thing it's clearly not. I just tend to write better when defending/shooting someones opinion down (debateable is my nature i guess). Student was clearly claiming someone was making up bullshit, when they could well have been talking the truth - as I mention in the post, alot more people have done ridiculously large doses and lived to tell the tale, so it's not surprising people having done stupid things are coming to light now - and are still somewhat level headed.

 

[thestudent14]

Don't stress, wasn't taking it as personal attack =)

True I don't have a great pharmacological knowledge, but I stand by my points. Considerring I've read the whole Mephedone thread back to front, his is the first to say pharmacological knowledge a large heavy use without any noticable harm.

You are saying you have seen people do 3-5grams of mephedrone in a session, I've never seen anyone do even close to that. And I'm kind of suprised you would let someone do that much in front of you. I mean I know you believe in own body own choice. But when I hear people like Sustanon who are extremely experienced with meph say 600mg's is more then enough. 3-5 sounds excessive at the least.

"There is little to NO EVIDENCE to suggest that 4mmc is toxic beyond its cardiovascular effects, just speculation based on the 5-HT2B agonism it creates, and common side effects with other drugs that fit the profile."

I disagree, based on it's legal use in the UK and the associated deaths over there. Maybe I miss understood all the evidence I've read on Meph, but my understanding is that at those high doses damage is nearly Innevitable. You saying that they probably had stupidly high doses may be true. But I've heard people saying over 2 grams gave purple knee's, finger tips etc. (True these were internet articles so they are not credible) But as i said a couple of weeks back, a friend of a friend of mine ended up in hospital from a few grams of 4-mmc across a few days.

As far as the
"4-methylmethcathinone (note the extra para-substituted methyl group) is very different from METHCATHINONE, which produces effects similar to methamphetamine."
I did say I've never tried it, but I was clearly wrong in thinking it was similar to 4-mmc which is what I remember reading, so I re-tract that statement =(

But it's all good, I do have much to learn, thus I'm the student
I don't mind people shutting me down, keeps me in line, afterall it is a "Discussion" website


But most of all party safe

 

[Blanketlol]

I disagree, based on it's legal use in the UK and the associated deaths over there

In the people that died 9 times out of 10 (or 25 out of 26 if i remember correctly) a nice big cocktail of different chemicals... not just mephedrone were found

 

[I NUK3D U]

^ try 26/26

 

[MrIbis]

Yeah i think it's worthwhile to point that much out... The drug climate in the uk is VERY different to what we have here, based upon price, availability and the sheer amount of different drugs available to just about anyone on the street for a few p a pop - means the use is far more widespread, and the younger kids have access to things that here, are completely unheard of.

 

[Sustanon]

I personally think that 4mmc could induce long term health problems. Im actually glad i tried it and also glad that its difficult to obtain since the crackdown. RCs arnt my cup of tea and id leave the trial and error to the guinea pigs out there. Most deaths as mentioned above were a combination of other things. Its a nice substance to try once or twice but i cant see it being the best substitute for MDMA for someone to do on a long term basis. I personally try too look for substances which have alot more positives than negative effects. Just my 2cents.

 

[tyrael]

Im actually glad i tried it and also glad that its difficult to obtain since the crackdown

Hit the nail on the head (well, for me) there Sustanon!

 

[thestudent14]

I didn't think it was ALL deaths from it were mixed with other drugs.
But it definately plays a good question to the lack of research done before bans kick in.

I feel like I have no grounds to stand on now lol, but I dunno, I still feel in my gut that 4-mmc is very dangerous in high amounts. But ohwell, I guess only time and decades of research will tell.

 

[antheads]

Which I call bullshit due to the deaths from cardiovascular damage to people in the U.K whilst it was legal)

8)And i call bullshit on your whole post mate.
Curiously Prof Nutt agrees with us and not you. By us (amongst) I mean the tens of thousands of aussies who had/have took mephedrone regularly and are completly fine. By completely fine I am not reffering to the the temporary side effects that is common to all the amphetamine family. In my experience meph was always a few grades 'less harmfull' than methedrone in regards to chem induced psychosis and the physical symptons of prolonged CNS stim usage. In fact consuming various novel cathinones as an alternative to methamphetamine could be considered a form of harm reduction for youth but i digress from such radical, heretical ideas to AusHR

Regarding the forum 'evidence' of heart damage and lack of circulation causing limbs to turn purple its funny how all these reports of side effects started occuring after the chinese started shipping to england as a direct result of meeting market demand created by the BL report on ngncs. I havn't kept up with the BL forums but i don't remember seeing such posts on on the aus forum, (please correct me if i'm wrong?).

Of course I don't disregard that mephedrone could cause these side efects but the possiblity that these chinese imports were not mephedrone shouldn't be discounted either. Or they were not pharma grade or watever the chinese market decided? I look forward to reading details of the Aus HR 'evidence' that mephedrone is a 'dangerous drug' esp in regards to the heart valve constriction and the limb tips turning blue epedemic that aus hospitals faced over the last 2 years due to tens of thousands of australians suffering the side effects that your 'evidence stipulates.
I'm sure DrPlatypus can provide you with the stats. In fact I look forward to hearing him speak again after his academic and emergency room new kitten experience. A few interesting conferences and academic papers I'm sure..


Let me repeat just in case people assume i'm bullshiting for some nefarious reasons; 50 g of miaow plus a bottle of vodka or 2 every few days plus 1-2 packs of cigs a day, plus ocaisonal MDPV and MDAI top ups from the shops over a period of 3 weeks. Can you tell me again what negative health effects I should be suffering according to Aus HR ? Or maybe i should just ask the grannys at the red cross? Cause I haven't seen any real evidence from Aus, sure theres the ACMD report but as far as i'm concered thats a controversial paper.

The only side physical effects i can report is boils and cuts beccoming infected and yes turning red but wether that was due to the meph, the vodka, the multinational cigs, the unhygenic enviroment, the lack of sun or a psychosomatic condition i cannot determine. None of my expereinece tally with the mainly UK user posts about meph , which has been taken as 'evidence' by 'AusHR.

As far as i'm concere PD is right, the traditional models that have defined HR are obsolete. It's done Stick a fork in it. As is meph,
Can we all move onto the futue part II?
The people that are about action not talk in oz please look at Nutt and Doblin (amongst many others) for solutions.
For instance Prof. Nutt recomends selling mephedrone in night clubs as part of a harm reduction strategy?

 

[MrIbis]

^Aus HR doesn't encompass diagnosing you with what you should be suffering as a result of your misuse/abuse of these drugs.

There is no known long term health effects as this point, and it is not something we stipulate upon for the next 10-20years of mephedrone use among humans.

Prof. Nutt is less than credible as your god, he's just a scientist with theories - whilst some of them may appear true, in all likelyhood he's probably just as responsible for pushing this shit onto the kids as your bullshit rant is.

Sure selling regulated drugs in nightlcubs would work - that doesn't just encompass mephedrone - but there is a whole plethora of issues that need to be solved as a result of that, and more to come out of the woodwork. It's tax payer dollars that we really don't have to spend (although i'm sure if we look at the decrease in crime rates as a result of such ideas, the money would more than arise).

HR is not obsolete, we're not telling anyone they shouldn't do this, just providing strategies on how they can best do it in a safer and more controlled environment. Accepting that there is a risk of death with all drug use - and that is the worst case scenario (possibly worse would be killing your friend driving and you surviving).

I don't think your posts are in the best interest of the greater community here at BL. I am also not some anti meph/rc crusader - i love mephedrone and other RCs as much as the next guy, and am also a big advocate of their use, if done in a safe and controlled environment.

I just think you should hold Prof. Nutts ideals with little weight because you don't seem to have a plan other than "selling drugs in clubs will reduce crime and harm".

 

[rolls_]

8)Let me repeat just in case people assume i'm bullshiting for some nefarious reasons; 50 g of miaow plus a bottle of vodka or 2 every few days plus 1-2 packs of cigs a day, plus ocaisonal MDPV and MDAI top ups from the shops over a period of 3 weeks. Can you tell me again what negative health effects I should be suffering according to Aus HR ? Or maybe i should just ask the grannys at the red cross? Cause I haven't seen any real evidence from Aus, sure theres the ACMD report but as far as i'm concered thats a controversial paper.

Typical drug user trying to justify their habbit. Whether or not it has been proven or there is loads of evidence is irrelevant. How could you possibly think doing that is good for your body?

50g assuming 95% purity = 250mg of impurities every few days, being as the drugs are cooked with all sorts of horribly toxic chemicals you are certainly ingesting some amount of dangerous material, this is of course assuming meph is 100% benign and has zero bad effects on your body. If you ignore this assumption then you can see how you could be doing horrible damage to your body.

 

[antheads]

^Aus HR doesn't encompass diagnosing you with what you should be suffering as a result of your misuse/abuse of these drugs.
There is no known long term health effects as this point, and it is not something we stipulate upon for the next 10-20years of mephedrone use among humans.

Wow such a refreshing change from all the 'expert' posts around here.

Prof. Nutt is less than credible as your god, he's just a scientist with theories - whilst some of them may appear true, in all likelyhood he's probably just as responsible for pushing this shit onto the kids as your bullshit rant is.

8) And your credibility just went to zero with that comment.

Sure selling regulated drugs in nightlcubs would work - that doesn't just encompass mephedrone -

I don't support selling mephedrone in clubs, in fact mephedrone is old hat. i just put it out there as a point to show how far behind the times harm reduction in australia is. the medical marijuana and mdma stuff as well.

I just think you should hold Prof. Nutts ideals with little weight because you don't seem to have a plan other than "selling drugs in clubs will reduce crime and harm".

Well it will, in adition to HR and educational programs. But obviously what MAPS is doing is the first step as far as legality and societal acceptance is concerned.

 

[The_Great_Refusal]

I just wanted to say i think its a good thing that mephedrone is now banned in the UK.... (hence drying up most supplies here)

Looking back, its probably not good to consume 5grams every weekend for 47 weeks.

year just went by in a blink.... also missing over 100 days sleep in a year cant be good.

on the outside, look fine though. still scary.

 

[MrIbis]

antheads: drop the god act. We don't give a shit about Prof. Nutt. Come on look at his name for christs sake.

You're just trolling now to create confusion and drama. I pointed out this Nutt's comments work in theory correct, but given his 'pro' mephedrone agenda, on a drug as un-researched and possibly dangerous as mephedrone, I think his fucking comments are ridiculous - and serve only as advertising propaganda for his online vendor store.

 

[SpecialK_]

Yeah i think it's worthwhile to point that much out... The drug climate in the uk is VERY different to what we have here, based upon price, availability and the sheer amount of different drugs available to just about anyone on the street for a few p a pop - means the use is far more widespread, and the younger kids have access to things that here, are completely unheard of.

True and the UK (and probably elsewhere) in general is different to this forum as they often avoid trying to mix being safe and will take their drug and mix it with whatever they can get their hands on. - I think this is the reason for mephedrone associated deaths, similar to all other drugs. I highly dislike it, around 1.5-2 years ago the drug was amazing, I remember when it first became available literally no one had heard of it, we thought we were buying methadone and it was amazing that such a small hit did such big things.

However I found with mephedrone that there was like two tolerances (maybe this was because my first time being properly 'wiped out' was on this substance) the first was one that made you feel on top of the world every time you took the drug, you could literally pour your heart out to any random person walking by, but soon this was quickly overcame and you went into the tolerance stage like every other drug causing you to gradually build a tolerance to quantities. But nothing could ever compare for me those early days when mephedrone was sold cheap, was barely cut and just created love.

Although soon after this period of 'love' ended and people just became addicted to the stuff sniffing grams upon grams, stealing, ending up homeless all over this powder. Which is why despite how much fun I had on the stuff, I detest it, so I'm glad it's illegal because I have seen it ruin many peoples lives for months until they decided to get off it.

One great thing though is that now that it is illegal, nobody can be bothered buying it, why go through the hassle of buying this illegal substance when there are other illegal substances which could be considered 'better.'

- Sorry for rambling on but this is my opinion and experience with the drug and I hope it can provide some insight for people only coming across the drug lately.

 

[MrIbis]

^how do you wind up homeless and theiving for something that you can buy for pocket change?

Sorry i did tons of this stuff... like probably near half a kilo in the time it was around... This shit has nothing on heroin, and heroin didn't make me homeless either and i was spending morethan people make in 5yrs of work in 3 months on heroin. People really need to evaluate just what they're getting themselves hooked on. Imagine if you were addicted to huffing flyspray and that made you homeless, how fucking stupid would you feel?

 

[SpecialK_]

^how do you wind up homeless and theiving for something that you can buy for pocket change?

Sorry i did tons of this stuff... like probably near half a kilo in the time it was around... This shit has nothing on heroin, and heroin didn't make me homeless either and i was spending morethan people make in 5yrs of work in 3 months on heroin. People really need to evaluate just what they're getting themselves hooked on. Imagine if you were addicted to huffing flyspray and that made you homeless, how fucking stupid would you feel?

Homeless as in parents had enough of their antics and kicked them out. - Teenagers.

And although it might be something purchasable for pocket change these guys took it a lot. Many of these teenagers lives literally revolve around drugs and at one stage mephedrone alone, so literally any penny they got went towards the drug and at some points that meant resorting to stealing. They also strapped it a lot (slang term for get drug now>pay later) so when they had no money sometimes this was the only option out.

The drug was also lapped up by dealers and paramilitaries as a easy source of money and so it was heavily cut thus more was required to get decently buzzing. I don't mean to say your country is any different with drug quality etc, but over here in Northern Ireland for things that can make lots of money fast its quality usually is extremely poor.

I know that sounds extremely exaggerated but it was pretty poor, I understand though that it can easily be taken and managed with money as I successfully did this, but I never sniffed the quantities that they did. Props to you for managing to keep your house while being hooked on heroin.

 

[MrIbis]

^Oh i don't own a house... I i definately am no worse off than before i ever used heroin... Maybe mephedrone has alot to do with that? maybe not.

The same can be said for Australia, and we didn't have headshops selling meph caps, or grams of the stuff as plant feeder. Our analogue laws were quite in depth well before this debacle took place.

Small organized crime syndicates benifited greatly from Mephedrone, as it was cheap, easy to obtain, and worth, in bulk, at least 20x what you paid for it to begin with. So in terms of cutting the stuff, sure it was jumped on to high heaven by the time it hit street level - but those at the top didn't need to jump on it to make it profitable.

 

[antheads]

You must be mad. He's an academic for fucks sakes / WTF? stop taking DMT at doofs mate.

 

[Biscuit]

How nice it would be if people could just take substances without fucking themselves and others around them up. These mephedrone stories from the UK really shit me. Some people have no willpower and no ability to do things with even an iota of responsibility and foresight.

Meanwhile it ruins things for those that want to dabble in substances of various kinds responsibly and with no impact on their working life and those around them.