Info Why we don't use 'SWIM' MEGATHREAD

I've read all the posts on several threads about this topic, so I've seen this argument, but it is not really an answer at all. I don't even know why you're asking which has an official legal definition. Obviously neither does and SWIM cannot be assumed to mean "I" legally by any court if it is trying to garner an admittance of crime, whether or not they are *certain* that that's what it in fact means. If someone said "my friend did this," they clearly can't use that as evidence against the person who said their friend did it. SWIM is no different. If, on the other hand, someone said "I just bought XYZ from XYZ" or anything along those lines, it might feasibly be used as an admittance of crime.
Why is it "the dumbest idea ever" to think that if you don't directly admit (in the first person) to having done or bought drugs but instead say you know someone who did, that you're less likely to be incriminating yourself? Do you really believe that there is absolutely no difference in saying "I did this" and "My friend did this" in terms of incrimination?
I just don't understand why everyone so strongly believes that you are just as screwed in court in either case. Is there any precedent for this or any examples that would show this to be the case?
I'm not trying to make anyone mad or just argue for the sake of arguing. I think this is important to everyone and I want to learn as much as possible about legal ramifications of these types of discussions. Thanks.

-Jaguraguguru

Thanks for saving me the time it would have taken to type basically the same response. When you say "I" it means, you, the person posting whereas saying a "friend" or "SWIM" leaves at least some doubt that it was in fact someone else. Remember a court needs to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, at least in the United States.
 
^A warrant cannot be issued because of what someone has posted online. It is not substantial evidence. It can be considered evidence along with a charge, though.

Oh really? So someone who posts a thread filled with kiddie porn, if found, won't have some form of law enforcement obtain a search warrant for their home/personal computer after their IP has been traced? Honestly, and I do realize this is my third post although I've been reading here for years, there are way too many assumptions being thrown around on this forum. I'm not sure where everyone on here obtained their law degree but I do know where I got mine.

I guess all the assumptions and misinformation floating around on here has finally gotten to me; it's pretty much the reason I finally decided to join.
 
i find this discussion really unfortunate. so far, i haven't read a single "legal opinion" that reads to me like it was written by someone with actual legal experience.

i also have yet to read the actual "legal" rationale for using SWIM, which has nothing to do with prosecution, warrants, or anything so directly implicated in the legal process.

The point is to create noise in what is otherwise a very public forum. To make the signal "dirty."

All the stuff you guys are complaining about--the difficulty and insanity of reading about "my cat did" and "SWIM does," in fact, is the only (and very limited) "legal" benefit of SWIM.

Bluelight is awash in people openly admitting to using illegal drugs.

SWIM boards aren't. They are awash in people kind of, sort of admitting to using illegal drugs.

Guess which board is easier/less annoying for LEO to monitor?

They don't use boards to prosecute. They use them for info on and about the drug community--they same things we use it for. The ease you are praising pleases them as well.

I would still advise everyone against directly admitting use or purchase of drugs in any posting. Whether you think SWIM is a way of doing that or not is up to you. I think it's odd that it's ruled out, because I don't think the logic has been thought through.

And for obvious reasons, I won't go into it, but I have quite a bit of very specific experience both from legal and technical arenas that supports my observations. (not with bluelight in particular, but with analogous kinds of surveillance--but no I don't mean to imply I have anything to do with LEO. i don't. more like engineering & legal aspects of internet surveillance).
 
As has been pointed out previously in the thread, SWIM has no legal definition, it could just as easily translate to "someone who IS me". With that and the fact that its so annoying to read, is it really that hard to say "my friend"? Theres no rule against that.
 
Don't admit/say anything you wouldn't want people to know about. It is that simple. If you are manufacturing drugs, a big time dealer, etc. why the hell would you mention that out loud in the real world let alone on the internet which is far more public. If you just talk about the use of drugs you'll be fine, there are to many open drug users on the internet for any talk of use to matter. Also, if you really are paranoid why don't you just use some sort of proxy or something of the sort.

Bragging on the internet gets you no where, so saying shit like, "Man I sling at least an oz of pure molly a week bro." is pointless. No one gives a fuck besides cops. Just leave the full extent of your drug use hidden if it really is a concern.
 
SWIM is so irritating. It really makes it very difficult to enjoy a forum where it is used. Good work Bluelight.
 
Alright, this topic really isnt up for debate, lots of questions and answers have been covered, so I'm going to close this and sticky it. If anyone has anything they want to add, send a PM to me or Evad and we'll put it in here, but otherwise this is all just becoming circular argument to, again, a topic thats not even up for discussion. :)
 
Re-opened after some staff input, but just keep in mind when posting: this topic really isnt up for debate, we will not change our minds on this. Any answer you are looking for has likely already been given here, so look through this thread before asking a new question on this topic, otherwise feel free to discuss it here amongst one another.
 
Just received 291 pages of discovery in a cultivation case that consisted solely of forum posts. I'll let you guys know how the case turns out.
 
while i am very sympathetic with the resistance to SWIM, as a long-time frequenter of many related boards, my observation is that this one seems particularly prone to admissions of illegal activity.

I think the quick SWIM discouragement has something to do with that; many people interpret it as "we don't need to be discreet here" which is not the message you mean to convey.

As funny as "we don't SWIM here" is, I think it would help to have it followed by a phrase or two (such as several mods have posted above) that points out that the purpose of this is to avoid an annoying posting phenomenon, but not to encourage posters to be more revealing than they might otherwise be.
 
while i am very sympathetic with the resistance to SWIM, as a long-time frequenter of many related boards, my observation is that this one seems particularly prone to admissions of illegal activity.

I think the quick SWIM discouragement has something to do with that; many people interpret it as "we don't need to be discreet here" which is not the message you mean to convey.

As funny as "we don't SWIM here" is, I think it would help to have it followed by a phrase or two (such as several mods have posted above) that points out that the purpose of this is to avoid an annoying posting phenomenon, but not to encourage posters to be more revealing than they might otherwise be.

Or maybe they could just read the bluelight user agreement they agreed to abide by.
 
Just received 291 pages of discovery in a cultivation case that consisted solely of forum posts. I'll let you guys know how the case turns out.

Oooh that'll be interesting, I look forward to hearing what happens with that.
 
xoqqiy axlotao3al - although we don't employ the false security of SWIM users are always discouraged from self incrimination. In the forums I have seen anyway saying what drugs you have in your possession is discouraged along with the discussion of any criminal acts, especially ongoing.
 
And all of this time I thought SWIM was an actual person people were talking about.
 
Because using swim is very stupid, everyone would know even if you put swim that the questions really for you. Are you paranoid about the cops or something?
Dont use swim, instead just say I
 
hmm from my LACK of training regards law......:

First off you have to know you are doing something wrong.

Absolutely not.

Ignorance of the law is not a valid defense.

If you commit a crime, you can be prosecuted regardless of whether you knew your action was a crime at the time it was committed or not.

(At least in the US, AFAIK)
 
Just a thank you

I was at a similar site and they make you use the word "swim". How fucking annoying is it to read that word 20 times in every thread. Very smart not to allow it here.

Peace!!
 
I'm new to the forums, and used it cause the guide lines say its discouraged! Not that its not allowed. Yeah, it might be annoying, but having a post deleted cause someone is annoyed at reading it is stupid. FOAF is allowed, and I think that is just as annoying.

If bluelight doesn't like SWIM then fuckin say so! Don't say its discouraged, say DON'T USE IT cause we're too annoyed at people who DO use it, and want our forums to be presented in a certain manner.

Fuck this place. I'm going back to Erowid, and getting my info first hand rather than from a bunch of prissy jerks who have nothing better to do than moderate a drug forum for 'illegal/discouraged' words.
 
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