Benzos Benzodiazepines' Solubilities in Water

[SUB SHOOTER 2010]

Yeah I do agree with that, but they were saying previously in this thread that you needed some crazy amount of water and it had to be a certain ph or something to be able to shoot Xanax. And my point was that I myself have ived Xanax 1 and 2mg pills with a regular 1cc syringe and felt full effects from it. So I just respectfully know it's not true.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

First of all I would like to say that I do believe that it is better to take benzos orally than iving. But I do disagree with the solubility facts presented in this thread towards benzos and definitely Xanax from personal experience.

On many occasions I have injected 1 mg blue Xanax footballs, and 2 mg bars with just 90 cc or almost 1 ml of water. I have no idea about the ph level of the water but whatever comes out of the sink. I have plenty of experience with benzos but usually keep a low tolerance towards them. And I can honestly tell you that you will feel the same effects as if taken orally it will just hit you sooner.

Like I said I have personal experience many times doing this and it was no "placebo" effect. This is also well known thing that this can be done where I'm from but just not commonly practiced cause it just hits you sooner, no rush. That's why I just don't understand how these stats posted here are so widely accepted.

Yes, There was a little pill residue left in the spoon and cotton but no more than when I do 1 mg of subutex. And it's widely agreeded that you can iv subutex. I know I didnt get 100% of the xanax I injected. But I also know that I don't get all the subutex I do when I iv it either. I actually keep all my subutex cottons in case I run out. And I will put 5-10 cottons on the spoon, mix them, press them, filter the solution, and inject. And it def makes you feel better if you are WDing.

I'm just politely disagreeing not cause I heard it, or read it, I've actually done it.

I hate to break it to you, but it's a fact... you are only getting 0.1mg/mL at 5 pH, and only 0.04mg / mL at 7 pH. I'm not lying, I have no reason to lie. You are wasting alprazolam without diluting it thoroughly enough.

^ I'm with this guy, there is NO point in IVing most benzos with the exception of midazolam, which I prefer to snort for the longer duration.

Everytime I see a thread that pops up like "IV xanax" or "IV Valium" I facepalm. swallow your goddamn benzos.

IV alprazolam and IV midazolam are very comparable, with the exception that midazolam is obviously preferable.

Yeah I do agree with that, but they were saying previously in this thread that you needed some crazy amount of water and it had to be a certain ph or something to be able to shoot Xanax. And my point was that I myself have ived Xanax 1 and 2mg pills with a regular 1cc syringe and felt full effects from it. So I just respectfully know it's not true.

What college did you go to Mr. know it all? Obviously, you're wrong. You may have felt FULL effects, that's because you weren't eating the alprazolam, you were IVing it, and only getting but so much in your 1cc.

Even at 7pH ; midazolam is poorly water soluble. Look it up! I'm not lying, I have no reason to lie here.

The only reason you SAY you felt "full effects" is because when you eat a drug, it takes forever to onset. With IV, it's an INSTANTANEOUS onset. The difference between oral and IV dosages can be outrageous. I would eat 0.5mg of alprazolam, or IV about 50 micrograms. I could sublingual 2mg of Suboxone, or IM about 0.1mg. Think about it. You felt "full effects" because you got like 0.1mg alprazolam, not 1mg of alprazolam.

1mg of alrpazolam IV would put you out really quick, unless you had a retarded benzo tolerance. I have passed out from 0.1mg of alprazolam IV without a tolerance. It's very sedating. My girl only uses 0.3mg to get off, and she has a tolerance. She still gets high/passes out - but she needs a 3cc barrel. You can't just will science away man. Science (and drug solubility in a solvent) is a very real thing, just as real as the drugs you are IVing.

But by all means, don't use a micron filter, use tap water, and don't even bother cotton filtering. Why am I here telling you otherwise, right? I'm just trying to save everyone a lot of pain and suffering from missed shots, wasted drugs, etc. - I hate to think about how much alprazolam gets wasted from people trying to IV it!

When I micron filter Xanax and don't use enough water, the alprazolam is STILL IN the filter. I can do a wash past a used filter if I didn't dilute it right, whatever comes out will still have 0.1mg/mL in it, as I use 5 pH bacteriostatic water.

I had to get my girl to believe this too (she used to use 6 mg per 30mL but I convinced her that the maximum solubility IS 3mg per 30mL and she's happy only using 0.3mg in 3mL).

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

I'm with CH here.. i have made 50ml phenazepam IV solutions in vials about 50 times and every time i needed to use propylene glycol at a 30/70 ratio with bacteriostatic watar (sterile water with .9% benzyl alcohol) it simply isn't very water soluble, just like other benzos.. and my phenazepam is in PURE form, no pill binders and fillers.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I'm with CH here.. i have made 50ml phenazepam IV solutions in vials about 50 times and every time i needed to use propylene glycol at a 30/70 ratio with bacteriostatic watar (sterile water with .9% benzyl alcohol) it simply isn't water soluble, just like other benzos.. and my phenazepam is in PURE form, no pill binders and fillers.

DUDE thank you HOOD!

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

DUDE thank you HOOD!

no problem %)

 

[Captain.Heroin]

To reiterate on drug solubility, here is an example.

Once upon a time, I got MDA. I dissolved 200mg into 0.2 mL. I don't know what MDA's water solubility is, but I'm sure I got all 100mg in 10 units of water, as the intensity of this trip had me fearing from the cardiac palpitations.

Heroin, cocaine, methamphetamine, are all very water soluble drugs. Most high potency opiates - you won't have a problem putting it in a single 1 mL / 1cc syringe.

But for drugs like benzos, you need to use additional solvents like benzyl alcohol, ethanol, or propylene glycol! It won't work otherwise. You want to lower the pH of the solution to get the solubility to increase.

Some people have tried merely putting a clonazepam, ativan, xanax, valium, whatever tablet inside their syringe and blasting off with it... it's not HEALTHY or GOOD for you, especially without a micron filter. But people did it... they posted about it. I would read these posts. I would never try IVing benzos past midazolam or alprazolam. I feel like those 2 benzos covers IV benzos as much as a human being would ever need IV benzos.

But to reiterate; it's not WISE to go OUT of your way to IV alprazolam OR midazolam, unless you are fairly certain you NEED or WANT this type of instantaneous onset of a benzodiazepine in your life. Some people have really bad insomnia, some people have really bad anxiety. I get that. But still... I rarely can justify IV alprazolam in my own life, so I quit using it all together.

LSD is pretty much the only anxiolytic I take now a days, other than cannabis/cannabinoid extracts.

 

[tricomb]

I've blacked out shooting xanax (with an insane tolerance) and I woke up with the needle still in my arm.

after all my experiences shooting benzos, I must say, the only time I'll be okay with IV benzos is what they're designed for. Twilight sedation, general anesthesia. That's the ONLY time you need that instantaneous effect.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I've blacked out shooting xanax (with an insane tolerance, I woke up with the needle still in my arm.

after all my experiences shooting benzos, I must say, the only time I'll be okay with IV benzos is what they're designed for. Twilight sedation, general anesthesia. That's the ONLY time you need that instantaneous effect.

I hear a lot of people say "I woke up with the needle still in my arm" - that can happen with a lot of drugs, not just benzos though... it can especially happen with ketamine.

I'm a moderately good judge of what I need. The only reason I mentioned how effective IV alprazolam is, is because I do have PTSD, and I realize many have similar levels of anxiety.

 

[tricomb]

I've almost had it happen to me with many a potent opioid, but usually I can pull out in time (lol) and I don't go for a blackout shot to begin with lol. It's ALWAYS an accident, let's put it that way.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I've almost had it happen to me with many a potent opioid, but usually I can pull out in time (lol) and I don't go for a blackout shot to begin with lol. It's ALWAYS an accident, let's put it that way.

When I was a heroin user, I would never aim for "nodding", just right below that, where the heroin causes great stimulation/euphoria. I'd see all my other using buddies doped up, nodded out, and I'd be busy cleaning up the place.

For real though, I have still to this day, watched my friends prepare IV black tar heroin - I pass. I don't need heroin. :D (Who needs heroin when you have LSD?)

 

[SUB SHOOTER 2010]

I hate to break it to you, but it's a fact... you are only getting 0.1mg/mL at 5 pH, and only 0.04mg / mL at 7 pH. I'm not lying, I have no reason to lie. You are wasting alprazolam without diluting it thoroughly enough.



IV alprazolam and IV midazolam are very comparable, with the exception that midazolam is obviously preferable.



What college did you go to Mr. know it all? Obviously, you're wrong. You may have felt FULL effects, that's because you weren't eating the alprazolam, you were IVing it, and only getting but so much in your 1cc.

Even at 7pH ; midazolam is poorly water soluble. Look it up! I'm not lying, I have no reason to lie here.

The only reason you SAY you felt "full effects" is because when you eat a drug, it takes forever to onset. With IV, it's an INSTANTANEOUS onset. The difference between oral and IV dosages can be outrageous. I would eat 0.5mg of alprazolam, or IV about 50 micrograms. I could sublingual 2mg of Suboxone, or IM about 0.1mg. Think about it. You felt "full effects" because you got like 0.1mg alprazolam, not 1mg of alprazolam.

1mg of alrpazolam IV would put you out really quick, unless you had a retarded benzo tolerance. I have passed out from 0.1mg of alprazolam IV without a tolerance. It's very sedating. My girl only uses 0.3mg to get off, and she has a tolerance. She still gets high/passes out - but she needs a 3cc barrel. You can't just will science away man. Science (and drug solubility in a solvent) is a very real thing, just as real as the drugs you are IVing.

But by all means, don't use a micron filter, use tap water, and don't even bother cotton filtering. Why am I here telling you otherwise, right? I'm just trying to save everyone a lot of pain and suffering from missed shots, wasted drugs, etc. - I hate to think about how much alprazolam gets wasted from people trying to IV it!

When I micron filter Xanax and don't use enough water, the alprazolam is STILL IN the filter. I can do a wash past a used filter if I didn't dilute it right, whatever comes out will still have 0.1mg/mL in it, as I use 5 pH bacteriostatic water.

I had to get my girl to believe this too (she used to use 6 mg per 30mL but I convinced her that the maximum solubility IS 3mg per 30mL and she's happy only using 0.3mg in 3mL).

From my understanding the bioavailability of taking xanax orally is around 90%. So if I take a 1 mg Xanax orally I should absorb .9mg out of a 1mg pill right?

Which I have just taken Xanax orally for this reason many times. But I heard shooting it was fairly easy and witnessed it being done myself. So this is where I'm obviously confused. If I can fit almost all of a 1mg xanax into a 1ml syringe and then plunge it all into my bloodstream and feel pretty much the same, just feel the effects come quicker than when I orally take the same amount.

So how am I only getting .1mg per ml when ived? That means your saying I could've just ived 1/10 of the 1mg pill and felt the same as taking 1mg orally? That would mean iving Xanax is 9 times stronger than taking it orally. Which makes no sense when the oral bioavailability is already 90%.

The reason you feel the effects of suboxone more via IM is because the bioavailability of sublingually taking it is 30% I believe. Just curious where on your body do u IM your suboxone? I've been taking subutex prescribed on and off for 5 years and I know you can manage it better with the less is more way for sure. Suboxone doesn't work as well for me even though I have used it hundreds of times before.

But there is no similarities in the bioavailability of suboxone and Xanax so that should not have been used as an example as they are vastly different in that area.

Not to mention taking .4mg suboxone sublingually should be equal to .1mg IM, according to the bioavailability charts. .6mg via IM would be more equal to 2mg via sublingually administered with suboxone.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

what it means is only .1mg per ml of alprazolam will dissolve into your water so what is left in the spoon is binders fillers and .9mg (small enough to not see, especially when mixed with the binders and shit) so when you draw your water up you only get water, .1mg alprazolam and whatever gets through the filter.

EDIT: that is the best i can explain it.. if someone else can be more clear than me please do so, i suck at explaining things.

 

[SUB SHOOTER 2010]

what it means is only .1mg per ml of alprazolam will dissolve into your water so what is left in the spoon is binders fillers and .9mg (small enough to not see, especially when mixed with the binders and shit) so when you draw your water up you only get water, .1mg alprazolam and whatever gets through the filter.

EDIT: that is the best i can explain it.. if someone else can be more clear than me please do so, i suck at explaining things.

No I see what your saying. But theres such a small amount leftover that when you do a wash with the leftover xanax there's nothing left after that. And the first shot pulls up AT LEAST 80% of the pill and it is really blue, while the wash has a slight tint of blue to it.

And how can my bioavailability question be answered? According to his ratio the IV bioavailability is like 800%.

Seriously just wanna understand not trying to argue to death, especially cause of my personal experience with it.

I like to learn but be thoroughly convinced in the process you know?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

There's just a huge difference between eating 100mg of MDA, and IV 100mg of MDA. Bioavailability doesn't begin to account for time until onset of effects, and the fact that you can administer a whopper IV drug dosage in 1 second flat.

Until you've done both (I'm not advocating for anyone to IV anything! I'm trying to quit IVing all drugs myself), I don't think you'll quite understand what I'm saying.

Have you eaten/shot a similar dosage for a drug, especially a drug with a big IV payout like methamphetamine, heroin, cocaine, MDA?

No I see what your saying. But theres such a small amount leftover that when you do a wash with the leftover xanax there's nothing left after that. And the first shot pulls up AT LEAST 80% of the pill and it is really blue, while the wash has a slight tint of blue to it.

And how can my bioavailability question be answered? According to his ratio the IV bioavailability is like 800%.

Seriously just wanna understand not trying to argue to death, especially cause of my personal experience with it.

I like to learn but be thoroughly convinced in the process you know?

Think of it as this way...

With a drug like OXYCODOONE, we have a HIGH oral bioavailability. However, there's a HUGE difference between eating 40mg of oxycodone IR tablets, and shooting 15mg of micron filtered oxycodone/APAP tablets. The IV is going to feel amazing but short lived; the 40mg PO dosage is going to be decent, but LONG lasting. Some people don't like the rush IV oxycodone delivers, others it to death.

The way a drug hits your brain (all at once, or slowly) typically yields a different duration depending on how quick your brain picks up the drug into the receptors.

Eating 100mg of MDA will last a good 8-12 hours if it's full potency MDA, maybe you'd need to eat 200mg for hard headed E tards. But IVing 100mg of MDA was the best 20 minutes of my life, and it only lasted 20 minutes.

Does that make any sense? I'm not advocating ANYONE try IV MDA either, it's really risky and highly cardiotoxic. The Captain was curious and curiosity killed that cat as you all well know.

FUCK, I have an even better cannabinoid comparison.

Look at the OD social. Watch the videos of me smoking CWE hash. Yeah that shit's more potent than weed.

But then watch me dab wax on my skillet.

Vaporizing earwax on the skillet, a truly fat dab of wax... that's like smoking at least a gram of weed in 3-4 different bowl packs. Except I'm not coughing, as a lot of the useless plant matter has been extracted.

Vaporizing earwax/errrl on the skillet is the closest thing the Captain wishes to come to, in terms of being able to IV THC+CBD in an oily - micron filtered solution.

 

[SUB SHOOTER 2010]

Yes I def agree with 95% of all drugs when you IV it, it's gonna hit you harder. I'm almost 25 and have been doing heroin since 17 IVing. I've ived all sorts of pain pills my fav being opanas 40mgs using the alcohol extraction method. Oxycodone is ok with a low tolerance but like u said doesn't last for shit Ived. I was doing 5 30mg oxys IRs in a shot at one time, just ridiculous. I can live a normal life doing subutex but I still wanna smoke weed and my new dr is really strict. Can't fail for anything crept bupe or your done.

So I def understand IV is more powerful and you get the most out of the drug your doing. But Xanax is an exception, it bioavailability is already 90% orally taken. But Xanax is already fast acting and short lasting even without IVing them. And if iving .1mg would fuck u up like u say I know more people would be doing it for sure. And the ratios you said just don't make sense. It's an exception to the IV rule for sure.

One time I had a huge 23 gauge 5ml syringe and I put a 2mg bar and 3-4 opanaIR 10mgs in it at once and don't get me wrong I was fucking trashed but I shoulda def died if those ratios about iving Xanax were true especially with that opana with it.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

It is quite possible you dissolved a lot of the alprazolam in a 5cc, especially with the opana inactive ingredients possibly lowering the pH even further. However, I'm not the scientist to sit here and test out what pH it should be after adding in what you did. I have used pH test strips/ pH meters before, I'm just not in the scientist type mood.

 

[blazelate]

Anyone have an experience with rectal admin. of Midazolam? Im looking to find the BA compared to oral, so you know, i don't kill myself haha.

 

[CretiNation]

WOW. i had no intention of causing this awesomely entertaining back and forth of intellectual chasm rivaled possibly only by the meeting of christopher columbus and the natives at san salvador. CH and HOOD: i don't think you're comprehending the ignorance of the niña, pinta and santa maría here who, if i am understanding their posts correctly, are essentially shoving pills into veins..?

I can fit almost all of a 1mg xanax into a 1ml syringe and then plunge it all into my bloodstream

first of all, this made me almost physically ill. secondly, ya might as well just use straight up hardware store hydrochloric acid (muriatic acid or somethin) instead of tap water because this is the probably the fastest way to circulatory destruction i have ever heard. you do realize that the 1mg xanax pill probably weighs ~1g so you aren't just injecting 1mg of xanax, you are also injecting 999mg of binders, fillers and other pill bs, right?

granted, you did mention some sort of filtration, i'll assume cotton. The majority of binders/fillers in a 1 or 2mg xanax pill are FAR more h2o soluble than the alprazolam itself, ESPECIALLY with tap water (ew) with a ph of 7. Another giant crevasse of misunderstanding here that Cap is overlooking (on purpose or otherwise) is that his solvent has ph of ~5, where alprazolam is 0.1mg/ml.

hispaniola (ok ok i'll stop with the new world metaphors!) over here is using ****ing tap water, which at ph 7, like you said, brings alprazolam's solubility to 'round 0.04mg/ml! so, even with your (barely) cotton filtering and tap water, if 'most of the pill appears to be gone' after one or 2 rinses, congrats; you've successfully dissolved a bit <1000mg of pill crap and sucked up undissolved alprazolam PLUS undissolved pill crap all at once. god that is so gross.

if you're gonna inject any pill of any kind, EVER; MICRON FILTER IT! and if you're gonna inject benzos (sans midazolam or bringin down your ph) you will probably need a vehicle consisting of:

10% EtOH
50% propylene glycol
40% H2O

and that ain't an easy solution to push through a 0.2 micron filter so seriously, eat your damn benzos.

sorry i didn't mean for this post to become a rant in fact i came on BL for info on triazolam and saw your msg Cap and discovered the beast that had been unleashed here. again though, i am so happy you took micron filtration to the level you did on this forum, god fuckin' knows how many lives you've saved.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Thank you CretiNation!

I'm glad some people are backing me up here when I'm explaining that the pH does matter when it comes to the solubility of benzodiazepines.

I will say that it is possible to feel a dosage of 0.04mg alprazolam IV, especially if you don't use benzodiazepines on the regular. I'm not recommending people just use a cotton filter though; this will do next to nothing in terms of removal of the inactive ingredients.

 

[CretiNation]

haha man you must just be totally immune to reading shit like that after so many years of towin' the HR line.

still makes me fuckin cringe. *shudda*