• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand

Least Toxic, Most Effective, Most Concealable Alcohol?

^Yeah no, by "concealable" I mean I don't want to smell like booze in places where I'm not supposed to smell like booze.

So excluding IPA, sec-butanol and undecanol (mentioned in this thread but not backed up by assay or anecdote), a pattern emerges among the alcohols that have been certified golden by Bluelighters:

120px-Tert-pentyl-alcohol-2D-skeletal.png
,
120px-Chlorobutanol2d.png
,
591904.PNG
,
210832.PNG


(respectvely, 2-methyl-2-butanol, chlorobutanol, 2-methylbut-3-yn-2-ol and 1-ethynyl-1-cyclohexanol).

See the pattern? They're all tertiary alcohols. This is significant because they can't be directly metabolyzed to ketones or aldehydes, so all the ink that has been spilt about the toxicity of aldehyde- or ketone-metabolytes of alcohols does not apply to these.

So as far as metabolism goes: what happens next? Pharmacokinetic info on these (or the like) please...

Thanks guys
 
seep;8075231[B said:
So as far as metabolism goes: what happens next? Pharmacokinetic info on these (or the like) please...[/B]

Answered my own question (I think). They will be primarily converted to a diol by CYP-hydroxylation at the least-hindered carbon adjacent to the original hydroxyl, then they are conjugated and renally-eliminated. (although the alkyne-containing specimens undergo some degree of acetylene oxidation).

Source: Ethchlorvynol's metabolism as detailed on page 9 here.

If someone with insight on this can comment if this is correct, please do.
 
several of the above alcohols are controlled drugs so not viable as substitutes for etoh

anything that metabolizes to butyric acid should be avoided the stuff does not just smell rancid, in low concentrations the stench of vomit is very powerful and is intensely unpleasant. the smell incidentally is worse the more the stuff is diluted.
 
3-Methyl-3-pentanol might be a good idea, it's the active metabolite of Emylcamate and thus should have a similar dose as Emylcamate (200-400mg). It's commercially available from China (1kg @ US$250 including shipping) and elsewhere. Considering that you get some 2000 drinks from a kg, it's not all that expensive. Aldrich offers it, too, for a similar price: 3-Methyl-3-pentanol
≥99%, Kosher, 1kg @ 260.00€. I haven't tried it, though.

I hope this is not considered sourcing. Else please edit accordingly, Mods.
 
I guess tertiary alcohols won't be metabolized, they'll prob get out as they came in, i don't se how they could be broken down or bond to someting else.

I'm a booze lover too, however seep, I sincerely think you should deal with your psychological fondness of alcohol.
From the thread it seems that you are seeking a chemical that will make you feel drunk but without the risk of other noticing it while in a professional situation.
From my point of view ordering gallons or strange alcohol from a chemical supplier is really exagerated.

Then if your post is mostly aiming at finding healthier alcohols....well, I'm with you bro!!
 
It is not even near gallons. That would be too much. especially to just have at hand like that.

I hope that we can all ban together and get rid of ethanol as a beverage, and concentrate it for fuel.
 
Thanks. I'll check these out.



2-butanol's a secondary alcohol, so it'll be oxidized to butanone (assuming it'll undergo oxidation like ethanol). 1-propanol should be just like ethanol: propanal and propionic acid.



To be precise, I'm worried about toxification (and of course toxicity (carcinogenicity, neurodegradation, etc). "CNS-depressive toxicity" (read "intoxication") is kinda the goal, no?

The "tox" morpheme gets tossed around a little loosely. Originally it was a Scythian word for an archer's bow (or the wood it was made from, or the tree (yew) that produced the wood). Hence the greeks would call the poison on their arrows toxikon, a substance which was also known by the name pharmakon, which is the origin of our word "pharmacology". Drug technology has its roots in hunting.

Jesus I'm stoned.

you always have interesting things!:)
 
I can't say that I have anything valuable to add to this, but I really hope this topic blooms. I think a good alternative has been a long time coming, and would be great for many, not just the OP.

Now, where's my whisky and pipe...

And damnit, the woman didn't bring me my slippers. Or stoke the fireplace. It's going to be a hard night, I think.
 
Here's a simple suggestion: Look at the scheduled carbamates, and imagine them as alcohols. AFAIK, all of the alcohol derivatives of carbamates are active. the ones I'm unsure about are meprobamate and carisoprodol, but I'd be surprised if they were inactive.

Still, go the cheaper to produce drugs. 1-ethynyl and 1-propynyl 1-cyclohexanol are both active, fairly potent, and enjoyable by all accounts. I recently tried 1-propynyl and found it quite pleasant, but it strongly potentiated my suboxone, similar to low doses of phenobarbital, at even a low dose and I was hesitant to try a higher dose as long as I'm on the suboxone.
 
In my opinion, those are to potent for the everyday user.
If you plan on doing large quantities then these can be quite a lot more dangerous for undiluted solutions.
 
1-propynyl 1-cyclohexanol

I assume you tried the propargyl, but I have to ask:

ImagesHandler.ashx
or
ImagesHandler.ashx
?

Holy Cow, good point about 3-methyl-3-pentanol. Both of you are thinking along the same lines.

Navarone,

I guess tertiary alcohols won't be metabolized, they'll prob get out as they came in, i don't se how they could be broken down or bond to someting else.

I think they're mostly glucuronidated, but some CYP450 oxidation takes place, especially if the structure has allylic carbons. Like, see here:

ALIPHATIC ACYCLIC AND ALICYCLIC TERPENOID TERTIARY ALCOHOLS AND STRUCTURALLY RELATED SUBSTANCES
 
Potency is still an issue here people.

This is also complicated when everything is being compared to ethanol, because acetaldehyde has such a profound effect on the body at high doses. There's a post from phasedancer that points out one aspect of the magnitude of this. Consider that to metabolize a mole of ethanol (which is 6-8 drinks, depending on who's tending bar), the body needs to reduce 2 moles of NAD+. That's 1.3 kg of NAD+!

So then any published report that states that something is n times as potent as ethanol needs to have taken this systemic effect into account.
 
So, not to be off topic, but based on what you said, nicotinic acid amide can be used for hangovers?
 
It does? I don't see any sense in it. At that point there's no simple increase with weight.
 
I know this is a little OT, but is the OP totally unconcerned with neurodegeneration?
 
Here's a simple suggestion: Look at the scheduled carbamates, and imagine them as alcohols. AFAIK, all of the alcohol derivatives of carbamates are active. the ones I'm unsure about are meprobamate and carisoprodol, but I'd be surprised if they were inactive.

Still, go the cheaper to produce drugs. 1-ethynyl and 1-propynyl 1-cyclohexanol are both active, fairly potent, and enjoyable by all accounts. I recently tried 1-propynyl and found it quite pleasant, but it strongly potentiated my suboxone, similar to low doses of phenobarbital, at even a low dose and I was hesitant to try a higher dose as long as I'm on the suboxone.

Did the 1-proprynyl literally potentiate the effects of the buprenorphine or add all-around qualitative effects?
 
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