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Thread: Least Toxic, Most Effective, Most Concealable Alcohol?

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    Least Toxic, Most Effective, Most Concealable Alcohol? 
    #1
    Beer
    DISCLAIMER: I'm drunk.

    I've come to the conclusion that I'm powerless over my inhibitions and that a higher power exists that can restore me to sanity. That higher power is booze. But I can't drink at work, and drinking at school got me sent home from lab last week (and my idiot lab partner screwed up the recrystallization and we got a meager 18% yield, but that's OT).

    And then so then but then there's scattered all over ADD proposals and testimonials concerning Alcohols that are less toxic, more efficacious and less smellable-on-the-breath than ethanol. These are scattered pell-mell on this blog and as far as I know they've not formally been gathered into one thread. I know that Hammilton, F&B and Negrogesic have written about substances such as chlorbutanol, 2-methylbut-3-yn-2-ol and some lavishly-praised cyclic alcohol. These are examples.

    And then so then but then I was wondering if we can't settle on an alcohol which can be consumed as chronically as ethanol is consumed but that is easier on the liver and lighter on the olfactorium. A room-temperature solid would be especially fantastic, as one could just stir it into his or her or my beverage of choice.

    Thanks.
     

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    #2
    Bluelighter xxl's Avatar
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    I don't think any other alcohol than ethanol is drinkable. And many are highly toxic.

    The word "alcohol" only designates a function in organic chemistry (the -OH function), ie the family of compounds to which ethanol belongs. Families of organic compounds will contain few members which are drinkable/eatable, and a majority of members which cannot be swallowed or even inhaled without causing harm.
     

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    #3
    Bluelighter /navarone/'s Avatar
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    I know that GBL and GHB feel a lot like alcohol for some people.

    Gabapentin and Pregabalin are also similar...but a substance that feelx exactly like alcohol..hmm dunno.

    I know of a new research benzodiazepine that supposively mimics the effects of alcohol.
     

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    #4
    Bluelighter /navarone/'s Avatar
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    The problem with alcohol toxicity isnt majorly the damage dome during intoxication but the damage made by their metabolites.
    ethanol is metabolized into acetaldehyde which is further on metabolized into acetic acid.

    Ethanol and acetic acid aren't really toxic per se but acetaldehyde is.
     

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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    I don't think any other alcohol than ethanol is drinkable. And many are highly toxic.

    The word "alcohol" only designates a function in organic chemistry (the -OH function), ie the family of compounds to which ethanol belongs. Families of organic compounds will contain few members which are drinkable/eatable, and a majority of members which cannot be swallowed or even inhaled without causing harm.
    What do you mean that there are no other alcohols besides ethanol that are drinkable? There are tons. Some are more toxic then others, but ethanol isn't exactly non-toxic.

    Sorry seep, Im not much of a drinker so I dont know much on this subject.
    GHB/GBL might be a good suggestion since these have a somewhat similar profile to ethanol, and are not terribly toxic. Unfortunately if you are in the US, these are illegal.

    If you want to go the legal route, then phenibut, mixed with a smallish amount of ethanol can produce effects pretty similar to higher dose ethanol intoxication.

    It depends on what you are looking for though really. If you want to be walking around absolutely smashed, then something like phenibut will not do the trick. If however you are looking for just a minor head change and something to take the edge off, then phenibut plus a bit of ethanol or another alcohol might be perfect.-DG
     

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    #6
    Bluelighter Northside's Avatar
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    A few years back someone told me about AWOL which is alcohol with out liquid. It's some kind of device that vaporizes the booze I guess, google it.
     

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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Northside View Post
    A few years back someone told me about AWOL which is alcohol with out liquid. It's some kind of device that vaporizes the booze I guess, google it.
    The very happy girl with the pigtails and the small dress must be the inventor.

    That thing is cool. I'm getting one! I'll tell people it's for asthma. Thanks North.

    .......

    Guys, a few things:
    1. I'm restricting my focus to monohydric alcohols without higher-priority functional groups because
    2. AFAIK, none of these are controlled (except ethchlorvynol)
    3. Potable/ingestible alcohols other than ethanol have been discussed here before (I give a few examples in my OP).
    4. As Navarone points out, I'm trying to avoid toxic metabolytes. I'm gonna get drunk repeatedly--the question is with what.


    DG, I like the phenibut + low dose ethanol idea.
     

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    #8
    Bluelight Crew indelibleface's Avatar
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    I know that someone here on Bluelight ordered some 1-propanol (propyl alcohol) from a vendor and said that it took less for him to get drunk than regular ethanol. I could be mistaken--it might be 2-butanol that he ordered. I can't remember.

    Captain Obvious moment: when ingesting any new alcohol, it's important to figure out what metabolites the alcohol is converted into by alcohol dehydrogenase. I believe propanol does not create any especially toxic metabolites. Butanol should convert into butyraldehyde, and then, what, butyric acid? You might just fart rancid butter smell for a few days. Is butyraldehyde toxic?

    Even 2-propanol (isopropyl, or rubbing alcohol) is not especially toxic, and somewhat more potent than ethanol in causing inebriation. The primary metabolite of isopropyl alcohol, acetone, does not have a high toxicity, but probably contributes to the intoxicating properties and thus the CNS-depressive toxicity of the alcohol itself.
     

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    #9
    Bluelight Crew indelibleface's Avatar
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    There's also a relatively easy substance to make called chloral (trichloroacetaldehyde) that was famously once used as a common tranquilizer, and probably feels more or less identical to alcohol. From there, it's one step away from chloral hydrate, of course.
     

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    #10
    Bluelighter /navarone/'s Avatar
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    Yeah i would opt for a secndary alcohol with low toxicity. i-propanol (which is converted into acetone seems quite toxic) compared to alcohol.

    Have a look at a list of GABAa allosteric modulators and see what you can find.
     

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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Inedible View Post
    I know that someone here on Bluelight ordered some 1-propanol (propyl alcohol) from a vendor and said that it took less for him to get drunk than regular ethanol. I could be mistaken--it might be 2-butanol that he ordered. I can't remember.
    Thanks. I'll check these out.

    Captain Obvious moment: when ingesting any new alcohol, it's important to figure out what metabolites the alcohol is converted into by alcohol dehydrogenase. I believe propanol does not create any especially toxic metabolites. Butanol should convert into butyraldehyde, and then, what, butyric acid? You might just fart rancid butter smell for a few days. Is butyraldehyde toxic?
    2-butanol's a secondary alcohol, so it'll be oxidized to butanone (assuming it'll undergo oxidation like ethanol). 1-propanol should be just like ethanol: propanal and propionic acid.

    Even 2-propanol (isopropyl, or rubbing alcohol) is not especially toxic, and somewhat more potent than ethanol in causing inebriation. The primary metabolite of isopropyl alcohol, acetone, does not have a high toxicity, but probably contributes to the intoxicating properties and thus the CNS-depressive toxicity of the alcohol itself.
    To be precise, I'm worried about toxification (and of course toxicity (carcinogenicity, neurodegradation, etc). "CNS-depressive toxicity" (read "intoxication") is kinda the goal, no?

    The "tox" morpheme gets tossed around a little loosely. Originally it was a Scythian word for an archer's bow (or the wood it was made from, or the tree (yew) that produced the wood). Hence the greeks would call the poison on their arrows toxikon, a substance which was also known by the name pharmakon, which is the origin of our word "pharmacology". Drug technology has its roots in hunting.

    Jesus I'm stoned.
    Last edited by seep; 12-02-2010 at 05:07.
     

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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by /navarone/ View Post
    Have a look at a list of GABAa allosteric modulators and see what you can find.
    Yeah, are any of these available?

    But damnit, you guys keep straying from the monohydric alcohols. Chloral: aldehyde. Chloral hydrate: diol. GABA-A-PAM's: aromatic, polyheterocyclic, etc.

    Thanks though.
     

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    #13
    Bluelighter Psychedelic Jay's Avatar
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    Undecanol is around the same in terms of intoxication.
    It is insoluble in water.

    2-Methyl-2-butanol, is 20 time stonger than alcohol, plus it has the smell of mint.
     

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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychedelic Jay View Post
    Undecanol is around the same in terms of intoxication.
    It is insoluble in water.
    That must smell and taste like slow death.

    2-Methyl-2-butanol, is 20 time stonger than alcohol, plus it has the smell of mint.
    Yes, that's exactly the kind of tree I'm trying to bark up. Let's look into how safe it is. Thanks.

    Edit: And so but then how is a tertiary alcohol metabolized? They're far less reactive in the lab.
     

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    #15
    Bluelighter Psychedelic Jay's Avatar
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    Last edited by Psychedelic Jay; 12-02-2010 at 08:46.
     

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    #16
    Bluelight Crew indelibleface's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seep
    2-butanol's a secondary alcohol, so it'll be oxidized to butanone (assuming it'll undergo oxidation like ethanol). 1-propanol should be just like ethanol: propanal and propionic acid.
    Ah, okay, interesting. Not a pharmacologist here; still learning, thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by seep
    To be precise, I'm worried about toxification (and of course toxicity (carcinogenicity, neurodegradation, etc). "CNS-depressive toxicity" (read "intoxication") is kinda the goal, no?
    I'm not sure if acetone has been proven to be carcinogenic. I don't know about long term health effects, though. I mean, alcohols have negative effects all over in the long term, anyway. I'm sure acetone is in the same ballpark or slightly worse.

    It seems like most simple alcohols have relatively benign metabolites, not counting chronic, long term effects, of which ethanol is no stranger to. Methyl alcohol seems to be an anomaly in that regard. I know that someone here mentioned that butanol might have some relatively more toxic metabolite...someone might want to fill in on that.

    EDIT: Ah, butanone is a synonym for methyl ethyl ketone. Wiki claims that toxicity only occurs at very high levels; I wonder if it is really that toxic compared to other alcohol metabolites or acetone.

    fastandbulbous mentions in another thread 1-ethynylcyclohexanol. Might be worth looking into.
     

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    #17
    Bluelighter Psychedelic Jay's Avatar
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    Yeah, I am going to get some 2-Methyl-2-butanol, because based on the info, the is no noticeable to note. Plus long duration is a plus for me.
     

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    #18
    Bluelighter Serious's Avatar
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    #19
    Bluelighter Psychedelic Jay's Avatar
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    I know this guy is not looking for hangovers, ethanol will not cut it.
     

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    #20
    Bluelighter Serious's Avatar
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    Yeah I figured they won't solve everything but at least they are effective and concealable (work, school, etc)
     

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    #21
    ^Yeah no, by "concealable" I mean I don't want to smell like booze in places where I'm not supposed to smell like booze.

    So excluding IPA, sec-butanol and undecanol (mentioned in this thread but not backed up by assay or anecdote), a pattern emerges among the alcohols that have been certified golden by Bluelighters:

    , , ,

    (respectvely, 2-methyl-2-butanol, chlorobutanol, 2-methylbut-3-yn-2-ol and 1-ethynyl-1-cyclohexanol).

    See the pattern? They're all tertiary alcohols. This is significant because they can't be directly metabolyzed to ketones or aldehydes, so all the ink that has been spilt about the toxicity of aldehyde- or ketone-metabolytes of alcohols does not apply to these.

    So as far as metabolism goes: what happens next? Pharmacokinetic info on these (or the like) please...

    Thanks guys
     

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    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by seep;8075231[B
    So as far as metabolism goes: what happens next? Pharmacokinetic info on these (or the like) please...[/B]
    Answered my own question (I think). They will be primarily converted to a diol by CYP-hydroxylation at the least-hindered carbon adjacent to the original hydroxyl, then they are conjugated and renally-eliminated. (although the alkyne-containing specimens undergo some degree of acetylene oxidation).

    Source: Ethchlorvynol's metabolism as detailed on page 9 here.

    If someone with insight on this can comment if this is correct, please do.
     

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    #23
    several of the above alcohols are controlled drugs so not viable as substitutes for etoh

    anything that metabolizes to butyric acid should be avoided the stuff does not just smell rancid, in low concentrations the stench of vomit is very powerful and is intensely unpleasant. the smell incidentally is worse the more the stuff is diluted.
     

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    #24
    3-Methyl-3-pentanol might be a good idea, it's the active metabolite of Emylcamate and thus should have a similar dose as Emylcamate (200-400mg). It's commercially available from China (1kg @ US$250 including shipping) and elsewhere. Considering that you get some 2000 drinks from a kg, it's not all that expensive. Aldrich offers it, too, for a similar price: 3-Methyl-3-pentanol
    ≥99%, Kosher, 1kg @ 260.00. I haven't tried it, though.

    I hope this is not considered sourcing. Else please edit accordingly, Mods.
     

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    #25
    Bluelighter /navarone/'s Avatar
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    I guess tertiary alcohols won't be metabolized, they'll prob get out as they came in, i don't se how they could be broken down or bond to someting else.

    I'm a booze lover too, however seep, I sincerely think you should deal with your psychological fondness of alcohol.
    From the thread it seems that you are seeking a chemical that will make you feel drunk but without the risk of other noticing it while in a professional situation.
    From my point of view ordering gallons or strange alcohol from a chemical supplier is really exagerated.

    Then if your post is mostly aiming at finding healthier alcohols....well, I'm with you bro!!
     

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