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    Going back and forth between Suboxone and Heroin 
    #1
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    Hey im wondering are there a lot of you who alternate between dope and Subs all the time ? I find that it is a lot easier to continue using dope for a long time when you have access to Suboxone all the time as well , and it also eliminates many problems that come from using that you normally would have
    1. you dont have to worry about being sick as long as you time it right (use dope all day and then you can jump back on subs that next morning )
    2 you dont blow all your cash on dope because you have subs which can last a long time ( 8 mg pill could easily last 4 days )
    3 if you decide to get clean , you can ween off subs and not have to go thru kicking dope cold turkey
     

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    #2
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    well im currently on MMT(love it), but I was on suboxone for like 5 months back before thanksgiving. I could however, never have the patience or the willpower to be super dopesick for like the 3 days to get high on something else
     

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    #3
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    what u mean 3 days ? thast only if u on real high dose of Subs
     

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    #4
    Bluelighter xxkcxx's Avatar
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    I did it all the time, mainly because I was getting UA'd at least once or twice a month.


    I had a few problems that arose.


    1) I've never actually had to experience full-on withdrawals, something that keeps many people from getting back on dope out of fear.

    2) Behavior like this is partially responsible for it being so hard for people who really want to quit opiates altogether from getting help.



    A third one that never happened to me, but a few people I know have claimed it is that after awhile the subs seem to not stave off wds as well as they used to.
     

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    #5
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    I feel ya on all that but at same time its a hell of a lot better to have the subs than nothing !
     

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    #6
    He'll yeah subs r a maricle drug IMO. I go back and fourth constently until I'm off sick ne way.
     

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    #7
    Greenlighter bubbbble's Avatar
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    I cycle on and off dope with subox preeeetty frequently. I'll shoot several times a day for maybe 7-12 days, then stop, wait 24 hours, and blow a couple mgs of sub....maybe 2 or 3. Two days later, I'll blow another 2mgs, then maybe the same again in two more. Rather than a third dose of sub, I'll sometimes just jump right back on dope. This works amazingly well, and keeps me from ever having any really shitty withdrawals. The 24 hour wait between my last dope hit and my bupe dose (which you really ought to wait out) is always mild....maybe a little cold n shiverey, but that's it.

    I've done this for months on end, and when finally kicking for a long period of time, just tapered off bupe for a couple more doses maybe and felt totally fine when jumping off at 1 mg or so. Unfortunately my heroin tolerance remains the same from cycle to cycle.
     

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    #8
    Bluelighter thelung's Avatar
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    Whats the point?? Isn't the whole idea of getting on and paying for a Suboxone program to stop doing dope?? jeeze...
     

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    #9
    Greenlighter bubbbble's Avatar
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    I'm not on the sub program, never paid for a doctor's visit, don't plan to. I have friends who are on the program, and kick me some of their pills (cause who needs 60 a month?) and cycle on and off so as to skip getting in deep and dealing with a shitty fucking time withdrawing.
     

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    #10
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    it's called addiction and compulsion...

    Quote Originally Posted by thelung View Post
    Whats the point?? Isn't the whole idea of getting on and paying for a Suboxone program to stop doing dope?? jeeze...
     

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    #11
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    I only need to wait 12 hours after dope to take subs. i can get 60 a month so i may just go a few time and stock up . 2 mg a day is usually enough
     

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    #12
    Bluelighter love2party's Avatar
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    Keep doing heroin and get your tolerance up their and pretty soon, the suboxone won't work for like the first few days. I got to point where I would get really dope sick, after 12 hours of my last heroin dose. So I had a choice, go cop more heroin or take my suboxone, because at this point I was so sick I couldn't take it anymore. The thing is though If I would take the suboxone It would throw me Into the worst withdrawals I ever had, so I would go buy H to take the sickeness away. I would keep doing H until I was brave enough again to attempt to take my suboxone. I would have to go through like three days of feeling like shit, even with taking the suboxone until I would start to feel semi good. So be careful because their is a point where the suboxone stops being as effective as when you have a low tolerence.
     

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    #13
    Bluelighter stuckinaloop's Avatar
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    Here is my opinion.

    The reason suboxone 'wont work' for you is that you are not using it properly. Google it, I mean there are millions of pages telling you the same shit...12-24 hours for oxy, 24-36 h, etc.. and those are on the low wne

    If you are dependant on H waiting 12 hours is usually not enough. Taking bupe may not throw you into withdrawals if your lucky but youll still feel like shit for 3 days until the bupe levels in you stabalize. Its really risky to take bupe 12 hours after your last dose of H, even oxy if you are really addicted with a tolerance..just ASKING for preciptated withdrawal.

    Now if you wait 24 hours or even better 36 or 48 you will only get BETTER results. Thats the challenge though, getting through the day or two of bad withdrawals.

    It is really worth it though..honestly the longer you wait to take suboxone the better you will feel.

    Quote Originally Posted by love2party View Post
    Keep doing heroin and get your tolerance up their and pretty soon, the suboxone won't work for like the first few days. I got to point where I would get really dope sick, after 12 hours of my last heroin dose. So I had a choice, go cop more heroin or take my suboxone, because at this point I was so sick I couldn't take it anymore. The thing is though If I would take the suboxone It would throw me Into the worst withdrawals I ever had, so I would go buy H to take the sickeness away. I would keep doing H until I was brave enough again to attempt to take my suboxone. I would have to go through like three days of feeling like shit, even with taking the suboxone until I would start to feel semi good. So be careful because their is a point where the suboxone stops being as effective as when you have a low tolerence.

    Oh and btw I can safely say i have a good amt of experience with this.

    I do agree that the longer your run is and the higher your tolerance gets, the switch just becomes harder and harder. After 3 weeks of use, its fucking HELL to get to the 24 hour mark..hell its fucking death to get to the 12 hour mark. Withdrawals won't kill you though, and your tolerance drops rapidly while your withdrawing.

    But I have switched back and forth countless times and the switch has NOT gotten progressively worse with time. If anything it's easier now because I am on bupe more than H now, so I try not and let my self get to the point where the withdrawals are unbearable.

    A good medium for me is using for 1-2 weeks then having a real shitty 24 hours until I dose my first bupe. The longer my runs are the harder it is to sit through that withdrawal and the worse the cycle gets..

    I dunno whats worse, withdrawals, or fear of withdrawals.

    Lastly, I will say that I have experienced exactly what you described above, and it was from taking the bupe too early. The times I have some how forced my self to get to 36 hours I have felt 99% within 1.5 hours of dissolvin the bupe
    Last edited by stuckinaloop; 02-02-2010 at 04:24.
     

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    #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuckinaloop View Post
    Here is my opinion.

    The reason suboxone 'wont work' for you is that you are not using it properly. Google it, I mean there are millions of pages telling you the same shit...12-24 hours for oxy, 24-36 h, etc.. and those are on the low wne

    If you are dependant on H waiting 12 hours is usually not enough. Taking bupe may not throw you into withdrawals if your lucky but youll still feel like shit for 3 days until the bupe levels in you stabalize. Its really risky to take bupe 12 hours after your last dose of H, even oxy if you are really addicted with a tolerance..just ASKING for preciptated withdrawal.

    Now if you wait 24 hours or even better 36 or 48 you will only get BETTER results. Thats the challenge though, getting through the day or two of bad withdrawals.

    It is really worth it though..honestly the longer you wait to take suboxone the better you will feel.
    I know ur suppose to wait longer but I was so sick already I couldn't wait and the cravings where really strong. It was either more heroin or suboxone right now I can't wait no more. Back when my tolerance was lower I would be able to take suboxone probably 12-14 hours after my last dose or whenever I would start to feel the slightest withdrawals and feel good. I agree with everything u typed Stuckinaloop.
    Last edited by love2party; 02-02-2010 at 04:28.
     

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    #15
    man, I wish I had subs just so I could quit abusing opiates... it sux to hear about ppl using subs to make being addicted to opiates easier / more fun...
     

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    #16
    Bluelighter stuckinaloop's Avatar
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    well..go get some then?? not that hard

    Quote Originally Posted by sleeping pains View Post
    man, I wish I had subs just so I could quit abusing opiates... it sux to hear about ppl using subs to make being addicted to opiates easier / more fun...
     

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    #17
    Bluelighter stuckinaloop's Avatar
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    I agree with you there..I remember in the beginning of my addiction, being scared to go through withdrawals again and going to a doc and grabbing some subs.

    Didnt know what to expect..I felt terrible, one of the first times I was really in withdrawal, and dissolved a sub and to my surprise I was HIGH. Not only did I feel great but I felt high. I never ever used to wait more than 16 hours until I started to realize it wasn;t going to be that pretty anymore

    That is gone now haha. But I still think bupe is great. It's a great tool to help through withdrawal, its great for ort if thats what suites you, and great to bridge the gap which I find my self doing quite often unfortunately.

    Quote Originally Posted by love2party View Post
    I know ur suppose to wait longer but I was so sick already I couldn't wait and the cravings where really strong. It was either more heroin or suboxone right now I can't wait no more. Back when my tolerance was lower I would be able to take suboxone probably 12-14 hours after my last dose or whenever I would start to feel the slightest withdrawals and feel good.
     

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    #18
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    yeah man find a sub Dr. and get them . its easy as hell.
    and I am always Ok waiting 12 hours for subs. never got precipitated w/d
     

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    #19
    Bluelighter stuckinaloop's Avatar
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    Yeah I mean it's almost funny how easy it is to get prescribed bupe in the US.

    I've to four different bupe doctors. The first 3 I just went to to get a script to detox..then I found one that takes my insurance and who is cool as fuck and decided to keep going. It's nice to have a constant supply of these things-maybe becuase I am not fully ready to quit inside..dunno.

    I have been goin to him for like 4 months now. It is awesome..its a walk in clinic so no appointment necessary. He makes me see him every 2 weeks at the moment because I stopped going for about a month then started up again. The doc is very laid back. No pill counting or piss testing bullshit to worry about.

    I actually went there today. I left work at 6 and made it there at 6:20pm, 10 minutes before they closed. The doctor saw me within 5 minutes and asked what was up, said I was here for subutex, he handed me my 2 week script which was for 42 subutex and I paid $30 and walked out happy as usual. Now I have to bring the script to CVS and hopefully theyll have generic subutex in stock since it will only cost me $15 with my copay. If they don't I will have to wait 24 hours for them to order it.

    So yeah..$45 every two weeks for 42 subutex..can't complain..but I pay a shitload for insurance so I guess you could factor that in.

    I am not sure what his prices are with no insurance, but I was paying something like $100 an office visit plus the cost of the meds at my old doctor before got on this private insurance plan.

    That aint bad considering I spend that much in a day using opies,

    Quote Originally Posted by jake99 View Post
    yeah man find a sub Dr. and get them . its easy as hell.
    and I am always Ok waiting 12 hours for subs. never got precipitated w/d
     

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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by jake99 View Post
    find a sub Dr. and get them . its easy as hell.
    sounds like a good idea. except where do I find a "sub Dr."? can I just go to my GP and have him prescribe it, or maybe get a reference from him to someone who can?
     

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    #21
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    NO go to the Suboxone website and you can search for a dr in your area. It has to be a Dr. who specializes in it but there are lots of them . Usually abuot 100-200 a vist (once a monthh) and the Sub is expensive but if you have insurance it will cover the pills . mine pays half so 30 subs is about 90 buks
     

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    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by sleeping pains View Post
    sounds like a good idea. except where do I find a "sub Dr."? can I just go to my GP and have him prescribe it, or maybe get a reference from him to someone who can?
    Unfortunately not every doctor can prescribe Suboxone. They have to have a special license from the DEA I believe. If you go on the Suboxone website you can enter your zip code and it will give you a list of doctors in your area that prescribe. Also local clinics will have print out lists too. You probably can get a reference list from your GP.

    Edit: I wasn't fast enough Jake99 beat me to it... and damn jake99 $90!! I pay $3, my insurance is $1 for generics and $3 for brand name prescriptions. I have insurance through my state.
     

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    #23
    Absolutly, subs r fairly easy to get. I get 90 a month 100% covered. I did call around alot though to dodge all of those waiting lists but eventually I found a dr that I could get into within days. I only had to pay for the visit.
     

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    #24
    Bluelighter stuckinaloop's Avatar
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    That is beautiful insurance. Do you get that becuase of your job?

    I have a shitty private policy which cost a fuckload..blue cross blue shield basic essentials plus plan.

    I get $15 generics which is a godsend because thats how I pay for my subutex. For brand name I get 50% off up to $500 per year. So before I switched to subutex when the generic came out, I was paying about 2.77 a pill with the 50% discount until that ran out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Broken_LCD View Post
    Unfortunately not every doctor can prescribe Suboxone. They have to have a special license from the DEA I believe. If you go on the Suboxone website you can enter your zip code and it will give you a list of doctors in your area that prescribe. Also local clinics will have print out lists too. You probably can get a reference list from your GP.

    Edit: I wasn't fast enough Jake99 beat me to it... and damn jake99 $90!! I pay $3, my insurance is $1 for generics and $3 for brand name prescriptions. I have insurance through my state.
    Also, sleeping pains, to find a sub doc don't waste your time asking your GP. Chances are he hasn't taken the course required to prescribe it, and he will probably tell you to go to a meth clinic or something. Just google find a suboxone doctor...or go to suboxone.com..also I tihnk theres a site, which is basically run by suboxone.com called lookforhelp.com (nto positive).

    Quote Originally Posted by sleeping pains View Post
    sounds like a good idea. except where do I find a "sub Dr."? can I just go to my GP and have him prescribe it, or maybe get a reference from him to someone who can?
    Yeah I had the same experience, there were some doctors I called that couldnt take me for a week, some that were mad expensive, some that required bloodwork, then there were the ones that were like come right on in.

    Some doctors are very scrict. Some doctors are all about the volume of patients...it's often a cash business. I found a nice medium. My doctor seems like he wants to help but also he enjoys the $ I can see that without a doubt lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Makirider View Post
    Absolutly, subs r fairly easy to get. I get 90 a month 100% covered. I did call around alot though to dodge all of those waiting lists but eventually I found a dr that I could get into within days. I only had to pay for the visit.
    Last edited by stuckinaloop; 02-02-2010 at 16:25.
     

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    #25
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    I thuogh 90 bucks for 30 wasnt bad.....................without insurance i wouldve paid twice that
     

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