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Ecstasy brain damage?

I know someone who stopped taking mdma after his first experience because : " this drug is so far beyond amazing that there must be a negative - nothing in life is this good without something bad happening to counter it" He is kind of right... I myself can not imagine a world without mdma use in moderation... that is engraved in my mindset, which is kind of scary because it means I have to seek this drug after 3-4 months without use. It is a part of me. I tried to escape it once and I could not. It is not addictive like cocaine in that I need to do it in a short period of time, but it has to be done eventually. It is the most amazing feeling a human can experience. It makes me uncomfortable to see the posts where the guy is tricking himself to believe that this drug causes no harm/ or little harm. Why - because it is exactly what I do....
 
My impression is that there is no substantial evidence of brain damage due to mdma abuse so far.

Of course there is the possibility that such evidence may yet be found.

On the other hand if the possibility of brain damage is high, one might be justified in arguing that it's surprising that no evidence has so far been turned up.

What we must admit is that mdma does have some lasting subjective effects, namely the ones underlying what we call "losing the magic".

At this stage though, I think we are justified in saying that the likelihood of measurable cognitive deterioration due to sensible mdma use is low.
 
My impression is that there is no substantial evidence of brain damage due to mdma abuse so far.

Of course there is the possibility that such evidence may yet be found.

On the other hand if the possibility of brain damage is high, one might be justified in arguing that it's surprising that no evidence has so far been turned up.

What we must admit is that mdma does have some lasting subjective effects, namely the ones underlying what we call "losing the magic".

At this stage though, I think we are justified in saying that the likelihood of measurable cognitive deterioration due to sensible mdma use is low.


DING DING DING we have a winner. Thats what i get out of it also.
 
If we can agree that there is no evidence of brain damage, then I will stop saying that ecstasy doesn't cause it. The problem is, there is no evidence. There is still the possibility that there are unknown effects, however, ecstasy is well studied now anf the vast majority have found no evidence.

What is irresponsible is trying to claim ecstasy causes brain damage and that it is a dangerous drug. That lying DEA moralistic attitude has kept it class A and has gotten piperazines put on the street in the place of MDMA. That is a lot more dangerous then MDMA.

I'm not going to change my stance on the subject and I won't stop saying there is no evidence of brain damage. Because science backs that position. I'm not trying to promote it for kids to go out and try and believe there are no consequences. But I will certainly not perpetuate and anti drug lie to "protect" people from them selves.
 
All your doing is causing harm for the people that believe you and want to justify their usage just like you. You say some absurd things at times like marijuana being more harmful on cognitive function as well as other things but you are just so lost its not even funny. You rate ecstasy as a much safer drug on your brain than many other drugs but you are wrong bottom line. Have fun keep dosing.. maybe once you really feel a far more noticeable change in your self you will say its enough with this because you have fucked your self where the repairable damage will take quite a fucking long time off a while off your little miracle drug. Btw how often is your usage, something i want to know.
 
If we can agree that there is no evidence of brain damage, then I will stop saying that ecstasy doesn't cause it. The problem is, there is no evidence. There is still the possibility that there are unknown effects, however, ecstasy is well studied now anf the vast majority have found no evidence.

What is irresponsible is trying to claim ecstasy causes brain damage and that it is a dangerous drug. That lying DEA moralistic attitude has kept it class A and has gotten piperazines put on the street in the place of MDMA. That is a lot more dangerous then MDMA.

I'm not going to change my stance on the subject and I won't stop saying there is no evidence of brain damage. Because science backs that position. I'm not trying to promote it for kids to go out and try and believe there are no consequences. But I will certainly not perpetuate and anti drug lie to "protect" people from them selves.

Wow, do you have broken record syndrome? Thanks for taking the time to address the questions that I asked of you. You don't care about educating anyone, you just care about throwing your totalitarian theories out there and have everyone believe that you are correct and don't have to answer to anything that anyone asks you. You're just going to repeat the same thing over and over again. Last I checked there wasn't anything wrong with my hearing (or in this case reading comprehension) skills. I asked you to clarify to which you have not done as far as I can see.

Go ahead, keep repeating yourself, it's not going to change anyone's mind who already doesn't believe what you are saying. :\
 
I can't imagine that anything that directly caused altered brain states would not change that brain in some way. Even simply thinking a thought or performing an activity changes the brain. Whether or not you consider the changes wrought my MDMA 'damage' would be the real question I would imagine.
 
In reply to the 'proof' provided, it is obvious that Rick Doblin would want to tell everyone that MDMA's neurotoxicity and harm has been exaggerated as he wishes to pave the way for use of MDMA in psychotherapy and financially gain from it. If it is proved that MDMA is more neurotoxic than other substances currently used in psychiatry or psychotherapy then this will not go ahead. He is not an unbiased researcher sadly.
 
The interview linked to was with Dr Shulgin wasn't it? As in "The Father of MDMA" who was the first to synthesise it in the 60s since the Germans originally synthed it around the time of WWI and found no use for it. He could probably be described as biased too but he certainly knows what he's talking about. Doesn't mean he knows for sure anymore than anybody else does but he most definitely knows what he's talking about.

I wouldn't claim to know for sure whether MDMA causes brain damage (as opposed to changes in brain chemistry which may or may not be destructive as footscrazy mentions above) but my personal opinion is that any damage caused is minimal. But that's just my opinion based on personal experience and observation.

There is a good summary of the research into the neurotoxicity issue here with links to more in-depth (as in kinda hard to follow if you're not an expert in the field) too. It's well worth a read for those interested in actual research rather than conjecture and opinion and seems well-balanced to me.

All drugs (and many other things) can be damaging and have their positives and negatives and it's up to the individual to decide if the positives outweigh the negatives or not.
 
All your doing is causing harm for the people that believe you and want to justify their usage just like you. You say some absurd things at times like marijuana being more harmful on cognitive function as well as other things but you are just so lost its not even funny. You rate ecstasy as a much safer drug on your brain than many other drugs but you are wrong bottom line. Have fun keep dosing.. maybe once you really feel a far more noticeable change in your self you will say its enough with this because you have fucked your self where the repairable damage will take quite a fucking long time off a while off your little miracle drug. Btw how often is your usage, something i want to know.

You're amazing, you do with marijuana what you claim I do with ecstasy. The difference? There are educated professionals in the field that agree with me.

I gave a hippy a ride today, she is a photographer at the ski station. I tried to move my ski goggles off the back seat and she said "no it's ok" and threw her sack on my thumb that was injured skiing last week.

On top of that, she doesn't remember that we gave her a ride a few days ago and asked us if we were on vacation 3 times. Of course a glance at the license plate would tell her we live here.

I have met so many potheads absolutely oblivious to their surroundings. I don't think it is permanent but there is definitely cognitive deterioration from marijuana.
it really isn't some thing questioned, but then again if you can show me some proof......


To Shambles: Thank you for contributing and not just injecting your opinion as fact. I'll give that a read and maybe I'll learn some thing. Maybe some of the others on this thread should as well.

@Purplefirefly Sorry I missed your question, others were pissing me off by making asinine, backwards statements back by their knowledge. I would say any thing that causes long term impairment of cell function or loss of long term cognitive abilities qualifies as brain damage. As for the emotional issue, that would probably qualify as well since emotions are regulated in the brain.

I agree with a use with caution warning, however, I do not agree with using unproven terms like brain damage. There is a whole fallacy to the brain damage argument, trying to magnify the mal effects to maintain a hurtful taboo.

The brain damage argument was born from false propaganda, the same propaganda that has gotten most drugs on the illegal list over the past century. No matter how much people think that decriminalization of drugs will end the world, let us not forget. Most drugs were never illegal in most countries before the last century and the world didn't end.
 
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First hand experience? You're wrong.. MDMA can cause long term if not permanent changes (/damage?) to the brain when abused.. fair enough that's not a scientific study but just look at the state of people that has abused MDMA to the max.. is it coincidence that anxiety / depression / etc.. are brought up so often?

And trust me, i am no way trying to spread anti-drug propaganda.. i, infacnt, love MDMA.. it's amazing.. i just REALLY regret abusing it as it has slapped me in the face (as it was right to do so, for being such a fool!).. and am no longer able to take it for many, many reasons..
 
You're amazing, you do with marijuana what you claim I do with ecstasy. The difference? There are educated professionals in the field that agree with me.

I gave a hippy a ride today, she is a photographer at the ski station. I tried to move my ski goggles off the back seat and she said "no it's ok" and threw her sack on my thumb that was injured skiing last week.

On top of that, she doesn't remember that we gave her a ride a few days ago and asked us if we were on vacation 3 times. Of course a glance at the license plate would tell her we live here.

I have met so many potheads absolutely oblivious to their surroundings. I don't think it is permanent but there is definitely cognitive deterioration from marijuana.

You just contradicted yourself with this post. You are assuming that pot is causing brain damage to people base on your observations on how they act while around you. so intern you should find no trouble believing people when they say that they used MDMA and it caused similar effects.
 
+ the links you provided = sh!te.. i don't see 1 study disproving MDMA causes brain damage.. i see studies on how MDMA can help people, which i agree.. it completely can.. but i see no studies on wether or not abuse of MDMA can / does cause permanent changes to the brain..
 
ok its as simple as this .


(mdma) LMAO if only we can all find pure mdma (very rare )
substance ABUSE which means a person taking multiple tablets a night (which are cut with other chemicals ) about two times a week every week for 9 months

lets take a picture of my brain and that will pretty much tell you alot

i feel my brain frying ... you obviously haven't taken enough

this information is for people who haven't ABUSED Ecstasy tablets .. which is still not pure mdma ..


were talking about reality here
 
You just contradicted yourself with this post. You are assuming that pot is causing brain damage to people base on your observations on how they act while around you. so intern you should find no trouble believing people when they say that they used MDMA and it caused similar effects.

In my experience, people that use solely ecstasy have no visible reduction in cognitive effects along with my first hand experience.

People that heavily smoker marijuana tend to lose attention to detail in my experience. I can back that up with the two yeas I did it and only pot. I recovered so I am not such a moron to claim that pot causes brain damage like the ones who claim MDMA does. I did say MDMA does effect cognitive abilities in the short term in another thread. I do not think that pot is a horrible drug, but I am with David Nutt when he says it has a greater risk and more cognitive degeneration then MDMA. Psychosis isn't common but it is there, even more often when smoking high THC skunk.

Rick, you should read, they effectivly dispute two of the three most famous studies on ecstasy. The third on rats isn't proof of neurotoxicity in humans. The methods used to determine neurotoxicity have been challenged. Saying my links are shit is not an argument, in fact, you have none, it is just moronic because they are reputable and the article is peer reviewed from my University library.
 
In my experience, people that use solely ecstasy have no visible reduction in cognitive effects along with my first hand experience.

In YOUR experince....That right there kills this whole thread. you can post all the ancient defunked studies you want but so far you have given nothing that say E does not cause brain damage.

What we do here is post our experiences to try to find the truth about using MDMA. The governemt refuses to help in this quest and until just recently the sientific community has followed suit. The only meaningfull MDMA research that has been done in recent times is the work of MAPS. The research was not trying to prove that MDMA does not cause harmfull effects but to show that for some the good can outway the bad and it can really help in certain situations.

Since scientists and the gonverment 's stances are clear, the people who use the drug must tell of their experinces so that others can learn from them. Sure its not a labratory controled test or research conducted by a university but it is significant.

trying to show a community of users that MDMA causes no long lasting cognative effect when many of them have experienced these effects first hand is always going to be a losing battle.
 
Rick, you should read, they effectivly dispute two of the three most famous studies on ecstasy. The third on rats isn't proof of neurotoxicity in humans. The methods used to determine neurotoxicity have been challenged. Saying my links are shit is not an argument, in fact, you have none, it is just moronic because they are reputable and the article is peer reviewed from my University library.

Show me please i'm tired and can't be bothered to read thru them all :p
 
The role of metabolism in 3,4-(+)-methylenedioxyamphetamine and 3,4-(+)-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (ecstasy) toxicity.
Monks TJ, Jones DC, Bai F, Lau SS.

Center for Cellular and Molecular Toxicology, College of Pharmacy, University of Texas at Austin, Austin, TX 78712-1074, USA. [email protected]
3,4-Methylenedioxyamphetamine (MDA) and 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, ecstasy) are ring-substituted amphetamine derivatives with stimulant and hallucinogenic properties. The recreational use of these amphetamines, especially MDMA, is prevalent despite warnings of irreversible damage to the central nervous system. MDA and MDMA are primarily serotonergic neurotoxicants. Because (1) neither MDA nor MDMA produces neurotoxicity when injected directly into brain, (2) intracerebroventricular (i.c.v.) administration of some major metabolites of MDA and MDMA fails to reproduce their neurotoxicity, (3) alpha-methyldopamine (alpha-MeDA) and N-methyl-alpha-MeDA are metabolites of both MDA and MDMA, (4) alpha-MeDA and N-methyl-alpha-MeDA are readily oxidized to the corresponding ortho-quinones, which can undergo conjugation with glutathione (GSH), and (5) quinone thioethers exhibit a variety of toxicologic activities, we initiated studies on the potential role of thioether metabolites of alpha-MeDA and N-methyl-alpha-MeDA in the neurotoxicity of MDA and MDMA. Our studies have revealed that the thioether conjugates stimulate the acute release of serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine and produce a behavioral response commensurate with the "serotonin syndrome." Direct injection of the conjugates into rat brain also produces long-term depletions in serotonin (5-HT) concentrations, elevations in GFAP expression, and activation of microglial cells. The data are consistent with the view that thioether metabolites of alpha-MeDA and N-methyl-alpha-MeDA contribute to the neurotoxicity of the parent amphetamines.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15228153?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_SingleItemSupl.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=4&log$=relatedreviews&logdbfrom=pubmed

While this isn't end all, be all proof that MDMA damages the brain, it just goes to show that there is much more to learn. I think that to say that MDMA doesn't cause brain damage is much more irresponsible than erring on the side of caution.
 
^ Is it just me of does that study infact say that MDMA, taking in any way other than injection into the brain, produces toxic metabolites?

I'm in no way any kind of a scientist.. so i may be completely wrong..

EDIT: Oh wait.. that's not one of felix's links?.. sorry.. i'm really tired 8)
 
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