• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand

*Safely* Easily Remove Naloxone From Suboxone

Status
Not open for further replies.
You are right about the inject ba its always 100, I was high when I wrote the post and it made sense then but no longer. Maybe it is a big conspiracy to lengthen the patent and they took the opportunity cause law enforcement demanded it. But what I'm not getting is why I am hearing so many accounts of people getting pwd with suboxone and not subutex. Its not an isolated case, its very common to hear that. I mean when the injection takes place there is a much higher ratio of naloxone to bupe and that must have some effect? Like some of the receptors not being covered by the dose of bupe and the naloxone grips the remaining receptors so in turn its like taking a low dose of opiates which would send me into wd, like many other dependants.
 
Not worth the effort.

The naloxone has been proven time and time again to not have an effect on the experience. It has been known to cause headaches and nausea in some people, but since the bupe has such a higher binding affinity at the mu-opiate receptor the naloxone has no chance of attaching.

I think the reason the bupe seems stronger when you do this is because it has been said that the subllingual bioavailibility can be increased by as much as 20% by taking your subs in an oral solution by crushing your dose and dissolving in a solution of water and high proof grain alcohol.

I am almost positive that the makers of suboxone knew the naloxone would be useless, the reason it was added was so they could market suboxone without infringing on the patent for subutex and also to compete with subutex. This shouldn't surprise anyone, drug companies have done much more heinous things to make money, like when Purdue said OxyContin was not addictive...
 
Before subutex, there were other, lower dose buprenorphin pills (Temgesic to name one) so it's reasonable to assume the patent for buprenorphine-only medication was approved before subutex came out.

Also I'm pretty sure there was actually more than 2 years between tex & xone, but I'd have to check on this.

Also FDA is an american institute, is it not? And subutex, suboxone & others are marketed worldwide? There's a huge market for buprenorphine in europe. And the company that held the patent for subutex is european. So I don't see why they'd specifically want to "trick the FDA"... or maybe they would, but that definitely is not the reason Suboxone was made, else they'd have marketed it in the US only...

From wiki

I think the reason had more to do with them getting their own patent for the medication and competing with subutex, they thought that most doctors would use Suboxone because its less abusable and just as effective and then they would have the patent for a few years so they could make a good amount of money before companies started making generics. Also, I'm not sure about this but I think a patent is valid on an international scale.

I found the best way to understand drug companies is to think of them as having the sole goal of making money by whatever means necessary, think of Purdue marketing OxyContin as "non-addictive" they had to know this was false but they knew they would make so much money before the claim was challenged and they got sued that they could afford a lawsuit and still come out with more money than they would have if they told the truth about it being just as addictive as other pain pills. But im starting to rant sorry!
 
You know what I think the true answer is? I've been looking into it and it seems the naloxone competes and slows the onset of the bupe. This would cause unpleasant symptoms for an abuser of opioids trying to use this as another recreational drug, briefly I might add but long enough for the addict to avoid abusing if he can. I think its a longshot idea at deterring abuse but was good enough to convince a lot of people. No one said the drug companies are stupid. Its actually just great marketing I give them props they even had me fooled for awhile with the cross on the back of each tablet
 
I've been looking into it and it seems the naloxone competes and slows the onset of the bupe.

In my experience, this is only true with small dosages and occasional use.

But what I'm not getting is why I am hearing so many accounts of people getting pwd with suboxone and not subutex.

I can see several reasons:
1. in many places suboxone has pretty much replaced subutex, or is much more common / easy to get. Therefore you would get more reports of possible ill effects of suboxone.
2. Some people are allergic to naloxone.

I think the reason had more to do with them getting their own patent for the medication and competing with subutex

Subutex and suboxone are made by the same company.
 
Here is a story I want you all to argue over. A little background, I was on heroin, went on suboxone, went off suboxone, then found a way cooler doctor. this doctor rxed me as much suboxone and alprazolam as I wanted (not to mention ambien and clonodine too all at once).

Anyway I got to shooting my suboxone...no problems ever involving precip wd. One time 2 days after taking methadone I did one and got an idea of what precip wd's could be. Then the generics came out so I got switched to subutex a month before the realease to make a seemingless switch to generics. They worked well IV too. After discontinuing my sessions with that doc, the most logical thing to do to not be sick was to take tramadol every day.

THis brings me to my point. Everyone says tramadol mixes with bupe and I tend to believe them HOWEVER if you are on tramadol and shoot suboxone it gives a very distinct feeling of partial precipitated withdrawl. I am guessing the naloxone is displacing SOMETHING since the feeling is too wierd to be anything else, however with just buprenorphine, you will not deal with this unpleaseness.

I would really like a better explanation of what is happening. My friend overdosed on a few things tramadol was one of them (and the only opioiod in the cocktail). He went to the ER and got naloxone IV. He confused all the doctors cause the naloxone would cause him to wake up for 5 min before fallin back asleep. They repeated administration and watched this happen a few times. Any thorys welcome as long as they make sense.
 
One time 2 days after taking methadone I did one and got an idea of what precip wd's could be.

Methadone is notorious for not being compatible with buprenorphine. When they switch you from methadone -> bupre in a medical setting there's always a few days transition without either medication. There's a good reason for this, as I imagine you found out.

Everyone says tramadol mixes with bupe and I tend to believe them HOWEVER if you are on tramadol and shoot suboxone it gives a very distinct feeling of partial precipitated withdrawl. I am guessing the naloxone is displacing SOMETHING since the feeling is too wierd to be anything else, however with just buprenorphine, you will not deal with this unpleaseness.

Have you tried pure buprenorphine while on tramadol? People react differently to different substances.
 
i actually need some help here people, I tried quitting H today. I have a habit average of about 1.5 grams of pretty good BT a day. I do inject. I brought myself down to twice daily (or 1 gram) meaning i can shoot up every 10-12 hours without too much discomfort. I waited almost 15 hours today, and i was in a mild to almost moderate WD. I plugged about 6 MGs of suboxone in a solution. I was sent into PWD in about 20 mins. I quickly took a shit because it started giving me major diarrhea and i was nauseous. I then shot up about half of what i normally do recreationally, about .25 g. The PWDs went away for the most part, so my question is how do i proceed if i want to quit? I have the suboxone in me and i know its doing something because im not high really i just feel normal. Clear headed and all that. I feel almost like im just on subs. Now do i just take anohter sub when i start to feel a little crappy cause I already have the drugs in my system or what?
 
Try to stay without as long as you can. Preferably something like 24-48 hours. Then start the suboxone.
 
you dont think the fact that i already have the bupe in me will allow for a dose sooner? maybe start at low doses and keep trying every 30 mins? I feel like im stable right now, i think most of the receptors have bupe on them and only a small amount has the H. I will wait until tomorrow and see how i feel. maybe there would be a way to do what ive done, purposely take a dose too soon and then rescue ones self with full agonists. then continue with the subs and maybe there would be a painless transition... no need to wait for onset of WD. obviously timing and doses would need to be tested and fine tuned... i will give yall an update.
 
Your body is still used to full agonists so the best course of action would be to wait. Just to be safe.
 
Okayy...just tried WHITEBOYE's directions with half an *mg Suboxone tab and then used the lighter to evaporate the ISO (like AZNBOI777 suggested), because I'm also impatient. I really don't feel much of anything. I'm wondering if I did it wrong?? I had been taking Suboxone for 2 months and haven't taken any in a week. But I had a few tabs leftover so I wanted to see if I could actually get a rush by IVing it. And I haven't touched any other opiates in 3 months. So, I would think that I don't have much of a tolerance.
When I used the lighter on spoon#2, it evaporated into almost nothing! Just a few tiny orangish specks, so I added 4ml of water and heated it up while stirring as directed in WHITEBOYE's post. Pulled up and did it.
Nothing.

What went wrong?Is it possible that I cooked away the bupe? I hate wasting. i want to tr it again, but I'd hate to waste anymore.
 
What went wrong is that you tried this stupid thing in the first place. You don't need to remove any naloxone from the subs, it doesn't have any effect anyway. Just dissolve the pills, filter properly (wheel filters highly recommended) and you're set.

Also, if you have already been taking suboxone daily for 2 months, you probably won't experience any sort of high or rush from it, no matter what ROA you use.
 
Agreed I have just done the switch and still feel a need for a dose increase. I agree that after daily use of anything after 3 weeks is not likely to ever match the magic it did at once.
 
Agreed I have just done the switch and still feel a need for a dose increase. I agree that after daily use of anything after 3 weeks is not likely to ever match the magic it did at once.

This is mostly true but I've been on bupe for 7 years (16 mg daily for the first 6 years, 12 mg daily this past year) and about once a week I take a higher than normal dose and get an enjoyable mild high. It's certainly not anywhere close to full blown opiate euphoria, but its still nice.

EDIT: I should note that I don't recommend this if you are on bupe maintenance. Despite the mildness of the effect, it strongly introduces the element of opiate craving back into your life which is not something you want if you are successfully maintaining on subutex or suboxone. That's my experience at least.
 
Last edited:
Ok, Im sure this process would work since its based on simply solubility, but let me ask.....what's the point?

As has been said 38 billion times, the naloxone in suboxone has no effect. Yes naloxone is an antagonist, but bupe has such a high affinity for your opioid receptors, that the naloxone has no chance of actually binding to your receptors and acting as an antagonist.

So what is the point of removing something that is inactive?

Additionally, while you are cleaning this pill up a bit, you are still shooting a pill, which is asking for trouble.
Now, there are times when someone could make the argument that the payoff is worth the risk of shooting a pill (many would cite dilaudid as an example).
However, shooting suboxone offers no payoff. There is NO rush or increased euhporia. I suppose it kicks in 10 minutes faster if you boot it, but that is hardly reason enough to take on the risk of shooting a pill.

So, what is the point of going through all of this?-DG

I second that motion and I also was a chem major. Stop making "mu" look bad. Stupid I know.
jk
 
Hmmm.....not the average tripe, a bit worse. Don't inject pills unless you know how to do it correctly and safely as possible (and, yes, you are not).

In respect to buprenorphine; I know first hand that physicians here are making a killing off these suboxone products. These are physicians who have little to no experience in this field.

The 8-hour online test to get a DATA waiver from SAMHSA, which is all that is needed to prescribe this drug (if you don't have board certification in pain management or addiction etc) is a fucking joke. Ive taken it, and it is nonsense. There is an option to take it in person, but i believe the only offering was somewhere in Florida.

Methadone (far too regulated, perhaps the most controlled of the C-II's) is, in my humble opinion a superior drug for the comprehensive treatment of opioid addiction. Maintenance, not detox, seems to work the best (even with buprenorphine formulations). Yes you can die from methadone overdose, and it happens with some regularity. You can also get quite "high" on methadone, and though it takes long to hit peak, it stays at there for a while, and has the nodding properties of other full-agonist (not like IV morphine, fentanyl, heroin etc).

I have played with suboxone without a physical addiction to anything, tried various routes short of injecting and the only effect I got was at day 3, apparently a build of plasma levels or something mediated by the drugs pharmacokinetics.

Snorting, the most "effective" manner I attempted (again only on day 2.5-3; by then I had taken 32mg, mainly intranasal ). Started at 2mg, intranasal. Nothing, 4,6,8,12,16 etc, only at around 16mg did I feel a some MOR activation, and it wasn't especially enjoyable. When I hit peak plasma at day 3 there was a little CNS depression, but was offset by some thebainish like CNS stimulation. Snorting suboxone did give me a headache however, perhaps attributable to the antagonist, I honestly don't know as I did not snort subutex to compare.

I have injected the old style "buprenex" ampules (only .3mg each), but this was many years ago and I was very opioid tolerant. It perceived to have little effect, no true precipitated withdrawal. Strangely enough, the similarly old tramadol ampules (forgot the dosing/amp) DID precipitate WD.

Yes, taking suboxone is better than being an IV heroin user, but from what I've seen, the withdrawal is harder to titrate down than pure agonists like less "potent" but pure agonists; namely methadone.
Warning, never attempt what Ive done, because it, theoretically would kill most of you (in actually, who knows).

Again, methadone is technically more dangerous because you can die from it alone (opiate naive) or even overdose on a semi-tolerant individual (usually polydrug overdose is observed). At 380mg (no, not the starting dose, it was started at 40mg and I kept on demanding more; it was a very expensive and liberal clinic for exclusive people) I felt good, perhaps too good, but hey, it worked. And getting off was not that bad, and you hit acute when you drop to zero, and yes its protracted, but no especially severe. I felt no where near overdose, but I could simply be an outlier in this case. I eventook benzos with it, not even close to over dose. Ive taken nearly a GRAM of methadone (yes, with 10mg tablets, by the handfull). Sure, it put me in a semi-conscious but rather deep nod for a good 6-7 hours consecutively. I think its ok for patients to feel good.

Too bad opioids are feared by physicians, and from what i've seen, its out of fear of liability or DEA troubles, not whats best for the patient. I say move them all to C-IV and put benzos in C-II.

In certain parts of the EU they are pretty liberal, but still, the CYA behavior remains rampant among physicians, especially in the US. Australia is quite strict, but at least they sell codeine OTC.
 
Oh, and please don't take handfulls of any pills, im lucking I didn't create a bezoar by taking nearly a gram of methadone with 10mg tablets.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top