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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Kratom and liver damage

kratom fucked me up. acute hepatitis. er and all. got my first and only iv shot of morphine in result. not worth it. big bill and maybe even some tears from physical pain. you get abdominal pain taking kratom, sucks to be you and stop immediately. you're probably in for it by the time you notice. i acted like a stupid drug abuser and kept dosing for a few days until it was really noticeable.

i didn't tell them it was kratom and left with a bottle of something much better. with apap though. idiot doctors. saved it for after enzyme levels returned to normal.

don't listen to any hippy nonsense saying kratom doesn't hurt anyone. it's only happens to some people, but if it's you it does not matter if you make tea or whatever. your liver can't handle it and you're gonna hurt. not on the first dose, but who takes a drug that feels good just once.

the reason people join just to post about it is because it's horrible. check out the view count on this thread. people out there googling why they feel like death.
 
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don't listen to any hippy nonsense saying kratom doesn't hurt anyone.

Urrrrghhhh....

Its disturbing how intensely kratom zealots suppress any discussion of possible harm. The brutal cross examination/denial/accusation of people reporting serious liver toxicity (among other negatives) is low down behavior. It isn't right to prioritize maintaining the idealized public image of a drug over the well-being of other people!

Kratom is a complex, unregulated mix of unique drugs. No drug has ever or will ever be unilaterally safe across all people and contexts. In fact, many are pretty dangerous. Hence harm reduction...

To those who have experienced issues: I hope you made a full and speedy recovery!
 
Interesting thread- A few pointers from an OLD FOOL. it seems to me one must qualify any information being posted or published anywhere- especially information that big pharma companies have an interest in. Personally, I have had nothing but good experiences with Kratom. I did a lot of research on this topic before I started using it, and I was concerned about specifically the liver/kidneys. I have taken it daily about 2 years, and it works wonders on my arthritis, and my experience has been exactly like 99.9% of what I have seen and read in the last couple of years. My blood tests come back perfect every time. However, the human biological system can vary dramatically from one individual to another. For example, I can not take any statin drugs. I found this out when I was measured with extremely high cholesterol at a very young age. I tried taking the statin drugs, and it almost killed me as my liver completely rejected these types of drugs, so I have had to use other non-statin drugs my whole life while many people (almost everyone I've met that has high cholesterol) I know can use them with no problem. In fact, my problem with statin cholesterol medication is rare.

So, although I know many that are taking kratom daily with no problems at all, I am sure there are some that may simply react differently to the kratom, and surely any one having adverse reactions would want to stay away from the stuff. But who and where do some of these comments come from in these posts and in the media? Lets look at some facts: 1) Kratom has been reported to, and is known to by many, to have many great properties for many people's health. 2) It is a great analgesic that works wonders on pain for everyone from cancer patients to people with severe arthritis. 3) It does not appear to be addictive (to anyone I have ever met or know) 4.) Most people report zero side effects except for some slight constipation, 5.) It is a much better solution for pain than hard opioids or any other pain killers because of these virtually non-existent side effects, 6.) Everyone (in my experience or reading) reports that it does not affect their mental faculties or in any way dull down their senses or make them fuzzy like other drugs, 7) Most report that they do not even get any noticeable "high" from the drug but they experience a slight boost in energy, 8) It has been particularly useful in helping drug addicts get OFF hard drugs, 9) the negative reactions and/or deaths being cited in association with this drug are almost always when it is being used with or in conjunction with other drugs (including MAO, MAOI) 10) New benefits of the drug for many different ailments are being discovered and reported on a regular basis, 10) It is very low cost, 11) Large U.S. pharmaceutical companies have reported that they are currently studying the drug to "discover new possible cures for ailments that can be provided to the public..." which, of course, will be patented and brought to you in "safe" form...

I think fact #11 is the most interesting. What do these facts tell you? If any one reading this knows the history of the US government, special interest, the FDA, and the associated pharmaceutical companies involved here- and their history, they will ALWAYS consider all of the possibilities involved in any large scale communication. Who would benefit from scaring the public about using some homeopathic remedy from the annals of South East Asia? Who would benefit from the drug being outlawed entirely (so that it had to be regulated)? Why would they want it regulated?

An estimated 88,000 people died in alcohol related deaths in the US in the year 2016. Isn't it odd that no one seems to be concerned about that? No mass hysteria here. In 2016, the US Federal government collected 9.8 BILLION on taxing the sales of alcohol. You don't really have too look to far to collect all the dots- its all right in front of you. These days, it is more important than ever to know your own body- and be your own doctor. Don't get me wrong, I do have a Dr. that is very good, and I listen to him very carefully (he is a rare one), but you can't expect the whole world to give you the answers about everything. Further, if you think that institutions are more concerned about your health than the holy $, your living on another planet. Think for yourself- do your own research, pay attention to the forces at work around you, and don't be a zombie that mindlessly follows others off of a cliff, but most importantly- pay attention to your body, and listen to what IT tells you...
 
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Ive used kratom habitually off and on for many years; maintaining habits up to 45-50 grams per day. Not bunk either. I sourced quality strains that worked best for me from reputable vendors.

I have no health complications that i know off (surprisingly given all of the other years of psychonautical exploration ive brought upon myself)

However, at such high doses from quality powder after a period of time I developed a “pins and needles” sensation and numbness in my extremities.

This consequently subsided with the cessation of my kratom ingestion respectively.

In another case of a separate binge, I again sought medical treatment requesting a full physical checkup (as i do after i compulsively binge with any susbtance) my blood work yeilded results that i had poor kidney function.

No liver damage as stated in the op

Whether this was the result of kratom abuse or other substances i dont know, but i was assured that the numbers were a common occurrence seen in many patients and nothing to worry about. The doctor “chalked it up to” dehydration. I was negligible in following up with more blood work a month later as requested.

Each time my use would span from several months to a couple years at a time daily over the last 15 years since the use of kratom became known to me.

Speaking from my personal experience and my personal experience only; i suffer from no health complications stemming from long term, high dose kratom use.

**This is not to discredit nor take lightly the existing evidence and experiences of those who have experienced complications. As with any substance and EVERY substance, the posed health threats can be and are very real! Again this is an account of MY personal experience with this substance**

However...what i do know is that i would love a cocktail 3gms of green 3gms red and 3gms of white kratom powder washed down with a glass of orange juice right now.
(This is too be taken literally, not to make light of the accounted health complications of fellow BL’s and many others)

Stay safe. Get checked. If something doesnt feel right then it probably isnt right.
 
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I'm not surprised that Kratom is really bad for the liver and other organs.

Well there's really no evidence that it's harmful to any organs other than in a very small percentage of people who take it. Which could mean they're physiologically predisposed to having problems with certain compounds, or they're taking adulterated kratom, which is entirely possible since there's no regulation. Also, why would you be "not surprised" if it does turn out to be "really bad for the liver and other organs"? Do you have some specific knowledge of the alkaloids present in kratom that leads you to believe they may be hepatoxic or toxic to other organs??
 
I seem to be in the minority, but not a surprise because I have a degenerative liver disease called Primary Sclerosing Cholangitis. Stay away from kratom if you also have it. I'm planning on an ER trip in the morning to assess the damage.

As a side note, the detrimental effects have been very dependant on strain. A RED MD seemed to cause the worst, maybe toxic impurity, maybe not. A White MD from same company doesnt produce this burden to the point of being able to notice.
 
Urrrrghhhh....

Its disturbing how intensely kratom zealots suppress any discussion of possible harm. The brutal cross examination/denial/accusation of people reporting serious liver toxicity (among other negatives) is low down behavior. It isn't right to prioritize maintaining the idealized public image of a drug over the well-being of other people!

Kratom is a complex, unregulated mix of unique drugs. No drug has ever or will ever be unilaterally safe across all people and contexts. In fact, many are pretty dangerous. Hence harm reduction...

To those who have experienced issues: I hope you made a full and speedy recovery!

Agreed. Kratom is not safe or a good thing for opiate addicts or people who live/suffer with chronic pain to take.
 
So guys, I don't know if this was caused by kratom, exacerbated by it, or not related, but I'm in the hospital and will be here for awhile. There appears to be a tumor in my liver. Won't know any more specifics till Monday but if you get any abdominal pain after taking kratom, it isn't worth the risk. I find it a little hard to believe that a few months of kratom (7g a day) can cause such horrific pain but a correlation, can definitely be drawn in my case.
 
Can anyone who had liver issues from kratom please go into detail of how it was treated, how long it lasted, etc? My BF is dealing with that now, severe itching and elevated liver enzymes for 3 weeks, just had liver biopsy. Please help if you can. Kratomliverfailure, I tried to message you for help.
 
the intense abdominal pain subsided about a week from my last kratom dose. while i got a ton of pills from the er for things like nausea and pain, only thing done to address the cause was not taking anymore kratom. i did not require a liver biopsy. followup blood work done a week or so later showed my enzymes were returning to normal. sorry, cannot remember how long it took until i felt completely fine again.

hope your guy gets it figured out and feels better soon.
 
is there anything other than anecdotal evidence that kratom causes liver damage?

I used to be a frequent poster at a kratom forum and I don't recall the issue ever coming up. Most of the problems associated with kratom were relatively minor - nausea, constipation and possible dependency

the advice I was always given was to source kratom in its natural form from reputable vendors - ie. avoid the concoctions mixed with god-knows-what that they used to sell in head shops
 
is there anything other than anecdotal evidence that kratom causes liver damage?

I used to be a frequent poster at a kratom forum and I don't recall the issue ever coming up. Most of the problems associated with kratom were relatively minor - nausea, constipation and possible dependency

the advice I was always given was to source kratom in its natural form from reputable vendors - ie. avoid the concoctions mixed with god-knows-what that they used to sell in head shops

Not much that I've been able find. There are some scattered reports of people having liver issues, but it always seems to develop rapidly, so there's probably a subset of people who are predisposed. It doesn't seem to be an issue for the majority of people.
 
I have never heard of liver damage from kratom before this thread. I was under the impression it was fairly safe. And this information is relevant because I'm planning on using it daily. I'd love to read a study or something more than these personal stories. Not discrediting them... but we do not know the cause.

I have heard of KAVA causing liver damage, especially the non-root part of the plant.
 
I found a lot of cases:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28484399/?i=3&from=/26511390/related


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27752985/?i=2&from=/26511390/related


https://calpoison.org/news/kratom



7-hydroxymitragynine
O-desmethyltramadol


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21513619/?i=2&from=/21112167/related




https://watermark.silverchair.com/3...NNq4Bf05zbyStAXpxXpkVgexo2oBEKFW_-nHYsEAKre6A


http://speciosa.org/acute-toxicity-...korth-aqueous-extract-in-sprague-dawley-rats/


https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=88678


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4849036/


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4316083/


https://www.sciencedirect.com/topic...and-pharmaceutical-science/mitragyna-speciosa


For detox:
dihydrocodeine and lofexidin


7-hydroxymitragynine
O-desmethyltramadol
Kratom leaves contain over 25 alkaloids, but mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine (7-HMG) are the primary active molecules. Mitragynine is overwhelmingly the most abundant molecule, making up 60-65% of the alkaloid content of the plant; with action at μ- and δ-opioid receptors, it is thought to be responsible for the bulk of analgesic activity and reduced gastrointestinal motility. It should be noted, however, that 7-HMG, although only compromising 2% of the alkaloid content, has been shown to have potency 30-46 times higher than mitragynine and 17 times higher than morphine. As far as the “coca-like” stimulant effects frequently described at lower doses, research has shown interaction at α2 and 5-HT2Areceptors, but conclusions have been conflicting and the mechanism remains poorly understood.
 
I found a lot of cases:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28484399/?i=3&from=/26511390/related


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27752985/?i=2&from=/26511390/related


https://calpoison.org/news/kratom



7-hydroxymitragynine
O-desmethyltramadol


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21513619/?i=2&from=/21112167/related




https://watermark.silverchair.com/3...NNq4Bf05zbyStAXpxXpkVgexo2oBEKFW_-nHYsEAKre6A


http://speciosa.org/acute-toxicity-...korth-aqueous-extract-in-sprague-dawley-rats/


https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=88678


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4849036/


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4316083/


https://www.sciencedirect.com/topic...and-pharmaceutical-science/mitragyna-speciosa


For detox:
dihydrocodeine and lofexidin


7-hydroxymitragynine
O-desmethyltramadol
Kratom leaves contain over 25 alkaloids, but mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine (7-HMG) are the primary active molecules. Mitragynine is overwhelmingly the most abundant molecule, making up 60-65% of the alkaloid content of the plant; with action at μ- and δ-opioid receptors, it is thought to be responsible for the bulk of analgesic activity and reduced gastrointestinal motility. It should be noted, however, that 7-HMG, although only compromising 2% of the alkaloid content, has been shown to have potency 30-46 times higher than mitragynine and 17 times higher than morphine. As far as the “coca-like” stimulant effects frequently described at lower doses, research has shown interaction at α2 and 5-HT2Areceptors, but conclusions have been conflicting and the mechanism remains poorly understood.

Try again. I stopped reading after half of those citations had nothing to do with kratom-induced liver toxicity
 
Just trying to warn people. Take it as you wish. 100% it was the cUse. Maybe it was a bad batch. We have gone through Hell the last 2 weeks, and not sure when/if he will be ok. There’s always the 1% of people that have bad reactions.
 
I got an achey liver and slightly pale skin/stools from kratom , taking almost an ounce a day
 
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