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    Kratom and liver damage 
    #1
    Bluelighter 7ca5p's Avatar
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    Question
    Ive heard that people experiance some really unpleasent stuff after experimenting with kratom. E.g. Kidney stones, jaundice, urinary retention.

    Just wondering exaclty how common it is to experience this?

    To put it simply, I really dont want to have experience with a catheter!
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    #2
    Bluelight Crew jackie jones's Avatar
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    I have never heard of such problems pertaining to Kratom use. If you can cite those claims, I would like to read about it.

    The only health problems I have heard of is possible respiratory depression with excessive doses, which I do not believe is proven as of yet.
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    #3
    I've not heard of this either, but that doesn't mean that it isn't so in the slightest.
    I've heard that other parts of the Kava plant except for the root can cause liver damage (leaves, bark, stem etc.) so maybe you're getting the two mixed up?
    Maybe it would be worth researching a bit just to make sure.
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    #4
    Bluelighter 7ca5p's Avatar
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    few of the places I read it:


    Whether chronic heavy daily kratom use really would result in other health problems such as psychiatric problems, facial skin discoloration, seizures, or liver disease is unknown. But an old Thai study (which I don't have that much confidence in) suggests it might. So don't go overboard.

    Yes, in a small subset of users, Kratom can most certainly cause serious hepatic health complications.

    I have been in and out of the hospital for several months now because of it. Decided to try it, liked it, and did it fairly regularly (2-3 x a week) at about 10g a dose. I developed jaundice, extreme liver enzyme levels on several counts (Alkaline Phosphatase 447-570, Aspartate Aminotransferase 375-460, Alanine Aminotransferase 685-834, Urine Bilirubin 6.0, Direct Urine Bilirubin 5.3). Also developed severe RUQ pain approx 6-8hrs post-dose each use.

    Needless to say I stopped as soon as I realized the connection between the ingestion of the herb and the symptoms.

    If you are taking this medication (it is a medication - whether in herbal form or not), then please do so with the support of a health care provider - or at least pay to get some liver panels done directly after dosing (within 24-48 hrs). If you must lie, tell your doctor you were taking Hydroxycut or another one of those type of dietary supplements which are known to cause liver damage in some people, or tell him you noticed some yellowing of the eyes and skin which spontaneously resolved after the weekend. Whatever it takes to get it done, it's worth it.

    If you're killing your liver, it's better to find out about it sooner rather than later. I'm glad I found the link early, or in ignorance I could have caused a much larger problem like chronic liver disease.

    Not everyone will have this particular issue, some people may take this plant completely symptom-free, and liver enzymes may remain normal. But is that you? How do you know? And how do you know for sure? Just get a quick blood test at the lab and voila! - instant peace of mind. Too easy.

    Good luck to all with this plant. I adore it, but alas, I must admire from afar.


    my brother and I have been doing kratom for the past 3 weeks. i haven't had any adverse reactions to it, but my brother is suffering from jaundice, which might be liver disease. his color is a pale yellow all the time, he is weak, nauseous, and pees dark brown liquid. he says that the kratom has done this to him. he's very concerned that he has done damage to his liver, as he has been a heavy drinker in the past, so his liver has already been put through a workout.

    so a word of warning... i'm not sure about the kratom/liver disease connection, but my brother is definitely ill, and he was ok before he started doing kratom. i'm very worried about him, he has been ill for about a week, but he seems to be slowly improving. just know that there is a very possible danger that liver damage could result from extended heavy kratom use.
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    #5
    Bluelighter 7ca5p's Avatar
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    thoughts?
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    #6
    Bluelighter boodha's Avatar
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    I think it is definitely possible, look at the kava history of even liver failure from that plant(it was actually the wrong parts being eaten)

    so im sure something like that with Kratom could be possible....

    there is just not enough information to be sure either way.
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    #7
    Bluelight Crew jackie jones's Avatar
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    That is non-conclusive anecdotal evidence. The last quote in particual does not hold water - the notion that a long-term heavy drinker would blame the development of jaundice on recent kratom use.
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    #8
    I have been taking kratom for about 2 years everyday with a week every other month not taking it in order to avoid building a tolerance, about an ounce a day (which seems like alot but it cost about 2 dollars if your buying in bulk). I was using your basic indo kratom powder from a regular supplier -
    I was def. concerned that taking kratom every day may have had a negative effect on my liver/kidneys, reading some of these posts made me a bit nervous.
    I went to get some blood work done, full physical ect..
    The results came back and my doctor was very happy-
    My blood was a better than normal (since my last examine) - in the good -very good range for liver, and good range for kidney. I also had a great check up with nothing bad going on in my body.. cholesterol levels low, electrolytes high, which was great news and a huge relief!!
    I am thinking taking the kratom actually helped me seeing that things improved over two years with nothing else changing accept taking kratom regularly. I know it has a ton of antioxidants and what not but there is not alot of actual proof of its usefulness in your body.
    The thing that may make the difference is that I have in this time only used, kratom, kava (every month on and off) and kanna (once in awhile).
    No alcohol or drugs (seriously.., kratom helps me to stay level headed and keeps me from not wanting to do anything else- drug or alcohol its amazing)
    So i can honestly say - kratom does not cause any liver issues - I have the results to prove it, and the daily usage to substantiate it. I think if your drinking and using drugs while taking kratom of course your going to blame one thing for the other. I just wanted to set everyone str8 on this topic since I noticed the concern from users out there (i was one of them). I really think that if you can just limit yourself to one thing daily (if you need something to relax and wind down like me) kratom is pretty good.
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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by mrjackjones View Post
    That is non-conclusive anecdotal evidence. The last quote in particual does not hold water - the notion that a long-term heavy drinker would blame the development of jaundice on recent kratom use.
    Yea people need to make the distinction between temporal relationships and actual causal relationships.
    Think of it this way:

    1-More and more people are using kratom everyday.
    2-People develop liver problems all the time from all sorts of things.
    3-There are bound to be people who start using kratom and then develop liver problems soon thereafter.
    *However, this does NOT mean that the kratom caused the liver problems. Of course its possible that the kratom did cause liver problems in these individuals, but its also entirely possible that the person's liver problems just so happened to occur around the time they began using kratom.

    Personally I believe kratom has proven itself to be a pretty damn safe substance. It has a long history of chronic use and there are very few reports of adverse effects (aside from minor issues like nausea).
    However, it goes without saying that if you notice any signs of trouble after using kratom, you should consult a doctor and discontinue usage.-DG
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    Kratom Can Cause Liver Failure 
    #10
    1/04/2011: I took 2.5 Grams of the 10x Kratom extract
    That evening I experienced abdominal pain which I foolishly wrote off as gas pains.

    1/04/2011 - 1/18/2011: Experienced what I later found out where symptoms of Jaundice. I kept expecting these symtoms to fade away but they didn't.


    1/19/2011: Checked into the hospital and was diagnosed as having Liver Failure.

    Went through a battery of tests including a liver biopsy at with one of the best Dr's in the country. He determined I had Drug Induced Choleostasis.

    2/27/2011: Still recovering, probably have another 2 months until I am back to normal.

    Could have been a bad batch of Kratom or that I was allergic but I can say for sure that the last 2 months have been a living hell: Debiliating Nausea, itching,yellow skin/eyes, vitamin defecient, can only vegetables.

    I hope this post helps someone.
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    #11
    Bluelighter Whipped Dream's Avatar
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    The three "sources" posted above aren't sources at all. They're just unsubstantiated claims made by supposed real life individuals. Where's the links? Who are these people? Is there a published medical journal or study to back up these claims?

    I want to see actual sources - not three quotes from supposed anecdotal experiences.

    And what's up with our newest member "KratomLiverFailure?" Sounds like a good story to me. Who joins up a forum like this with that username and the only post made was to post that Kratom made his liver fail? Quite unusual....hmmmmm.
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    #12
    Bluelight Crew amapola's Avatar
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    ^I've seen it before where people join up just to spread their story no matter what old threads they bump.

    As for kratom and liver damage just that one old study on Thai eaters that I could find.
    I think in the anecdotal accounts there are pre-existing conditions, unique bad reactions, etc. that the kratom usage could have exacerbated. Whether long to medium term usage is linked to a decrease in liver function is unknown, but seems to be little worse than you could imagine from chronically abusing any active substance.
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Whipped Dream View Post
    The three "sources" posted above aren't sources at all. They're just unsubstantiated claims made by supposed real life individuals. Where's the links? Who are these people? Is there a published medical journal or study to back up these claims?

    I want to see actual sources - not three quotes from supposed anecdotal experiences.

    And what's up with our newest member "KratomLiverFailure?" Sounds like a good story to me. Who joins up a forum like this with that username and the only post made was to post that Kratom made his liver fail? Quite unusual....hmmmmm.
    2.5 grams of 10x....lol what a pussy.....

    thats like saying if i drink once in a while im gonna get it

    if you do kratom everyday overboard there is a chance of anything

    drinking a beer isnt gonna fuckk up my shit so neither is occasional kratom

    must have been his first time and he freaked out or something and didnt know how to poop


    as for urinary retention..that is true...but its true with other opiates...duh...
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    #14
    Bluelighter Juicy Lucy's Avatar
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    I've been a daily kratom user for almost five years, my use has ranged from 100g's a week to 400g's a week, I only use plain leaf. I've not had any problems what so ever (yet).

    Also I know of 4 other long term almost daily users who have had liver tests and have all been ok.

    I'm not saying it def safe, from what I understand Bali is the the most farmed and can included the most chemicals, pestisides etc.
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    #15
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21528385

    I saw another paper a while back that had histological pics of mouse liver biopsies before and after kratom dosage (see below disclaimer), that showed gross derangement of the cells in the liver after a single dose. (I.e. the damage was blatantly obvious) Make you a little nervous, but the liver is there to take that sort of beating and protect you from all the errant plants you might eat in the wild, and it can regenerate to a significant degree.

    Standard disclaimers apply with all RCs (and this is an RC), and animal research. Also, I might be confusing the paraphrased paper with one on Sceletium Tortuosum as I was also researching that at the time. If I get a chance I'll try and look around.
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