• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand

Piperine - substance of interest?

I don't know where the fuck my head was re the 2004 thing. I love the way it's written though.

The synth for PCP (and a host of other substances) is just 2 simple reactions apart from piperidine, so I assume there are few cases of straight-up piperidine poisoning.

Wiki lists piperidines as CYP2D6 inducers. This is interesting as there are few readily available inducers of the enzyme. But the references are either defunct or in Swedish.

How is the molecule metabolized?

I don't think i'll occur in toxic doses, because of piperine metabolism, if piperine isn't consumed in very high doses, which are not likely to be consumable at all. But it still has a part in it's effects, which is not a minor one.

What's the use of an CYP2D6 inducer? *Improved* metabolism for some opiates?
Nevertheless highly variable activity of CYP2D6 and unpredictable induction leads even more unpredictable results...

The metabolism is similar to the human one.
piperine.jpg

The upper way the the major metabolism with >>60%. Because the link to piperidine is prone to metabolism, i guess >90% of the piperidine is released withouth being metabolised. Every other pathway releases it quite fast too - not just the upper one (the author focuses on other things in his paper).

@All the people thinking piperine is interesting for MDMA synthesis:
There are much more interesting precursors for MDMA, which are also OTC. Using piperine as precursor might be a feasible way to MDMA for a hobby chemist, who has much time and isn't interested in huge amounts.
For the clandestine market this way is unsuitable because of the high cost and the time it consumes.
This is not the topic of this thread and doesn't need to be further investigated here though.
 
I'd be interested in extracting some to make it into some PCP (for personal use)
 
It possibly might make a DXM trip a little less uncomfortable.
Yes, but playing around with enzyme inducers takes much time, may not have the desired result and can be hard to 'switch off'. Not to mention that many other drugs are affected too.
It's likely not to be very specific and might change the expression of multiple areas.
There are many risks in theory, but i doubt you will have problems practically. I wonder how strong it could be induced... is there a ceiling effect?

Or potentiate codeine...
It's safer to take more codeine :)

I'd be interested in extracting some to make it into some PCP (for personal use)
Not interested in piperine itself?
 
Piperine is a spicy alkaloid. A source is black/white pepper with content of about 4-7/5-9%.
Despite it's ubiquitary use as a spice in often not minor amounts, it's seems to have significant effects on the body. It's taste is awful and hence incompatible with most types of food.Simple interest calculator calculation calculators formula loan calculating rate loans equation rates mortgage compound current high savings account home

Low level effects:
MAO-A Inhibitor: IC50=20.9µM [1]
MAO-B Inhibitor: IC50=7.0µM [1]
PGP/CYP4A3 Inhibtor [2]
Raise in piperidine levels of blood and brain [3]

High level effects:
CNS depressant effects for electroshock seizures[4, 5, and many other]
Lowering of NA in brain/raise of DOP in some parts/raise of 5-HT in some parts[5]
Antidepressant activity for chronic mild stress[6]

Facts and thoughts:
Piperine is metabolized pretty quickly into piperidine and other obvious metabolites (half life in human ~2h). Piperidine is likely to play a major role in it's effect, though it has stimulant-like effects.
It also enhances the bioavailability of various drugs, but this effect is not that interesting for me.

My experiences:
In combination with Methylphenidate it seemed to exhibit some stimulating effects, which were overall significantly stronger than the ones of MPH itself, but again somehow weird. On it's own (due to extensive use of multiple drugs at this time has just a limited meaning - but most other drugs should have had just a minor effect) it had some weird effects which were somehow sedating. I tried it in very different settings again, but the effects seemed to vary greatly and most likely depend strongly on the different plasma levels of other substances.
But anyway i wasn't able to assign a well defined profile to it. This sounds strange, but it's not difficult for me to do with other substances even in combination.
The doses i used ranged from ~100mg to 500mg. At first it was used pure, then just in form of pepper of which the piperine-content was known.

My questions:
In theory it looks like an interesting addon for multiple drugs - am i right?
Has anyone experience with it and combinations with other drugs?
More pharmacokinetic data on it?
What effects and half life has piperidine?
Do the other metabolites significantly contribute to it's action?
What do you think about this in general?


References:
1. Seon A LEE,a Seong Su HONG,a Xiang Hua HAN,a Ji Sang HWANG,a Gab Jin OH,b Kyong Soon LEE,a
Myung Koo LEE,a, c Bang Yeon HWANG,a and Jai Seup RO*,a
"Piperine from the Fruits of Piper longum with Inhibitory Effect on Monoamine Oxidase and Antidepressant-Like Activity"
Chem. Pharm. Bull. 53(7) 832—835 (2005)
2. Bhardwaj RK, Glaeser H, Becquemont L, Klotz U, Gupta SK, Fromm MF
"Piperine, a major constituent of black pepper, inhibits human P-glycoprotein and CYP3A4"
J. Pharmacol. Exp. Ther. 302 (2): 645–50
3. B. GANESH BHAT and N. CHANDRASEKHARA*
"METABOLIC DISPOSITION OF PIPERINE IN THE RAT"
Toxicology, 44 (1987) 99--106
4. Eun Bang Lee, K u k H y u n Shin and W o n Sick W o o
"Pharmacological Study on Piperine"
Arch. Pharm. Res. 7(2), 127'--132 (1984)
5. A K I T A N E M O R I 1, H I D E A K I K A B U T O 1, AND Y I N - Q U A N P E I 2
"EFFECTS OF PIPERINE ON C O N V U L S I O N S
A N D ON BRAIN SEROTONIN A N D
C A T E C H O L A M I N E L E V E L S IN E1 MICE"
Neurochemical Research, Vol. 10, No. 9, 1985, pp. 1269-1275
6. Song Li a,c,⁎, Che Wang b , Minwei Wang c , Wei Li d , Kinzo Matsumoto e , Yiyuan Tang a
"Antidepressant like effects of piperine in chronic mild stress
treated mice and its possible mechanisms"
Life Sciences 80 (2007) 1373 – 1381
Seems interesting to me.
 
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It's been a long time since i started this thread...
But eventually i tried Piperine in the unisolated form of white pepper (~500mg Piperine content; in capsules).
I experienced no effect but a feeling of slight 'strangeness' and spicy/strange odor of my urine (probably due to the piperidine as a breakdown product).
Still, although no (interesting) direct effect effect could be observed (for only piperine), it might be of use in combinations with other drugs to enhance their uptake and prevent their breakdown in the stomach (it's still a MOAB-I; but has a short half life).
To verfify that it has no interesting effect on it's own i ask for your assistence in experimenting with it.
 
White pepper is intense, ill tell my boyfriend who cooks with it.
 
wouldn't some hot kmno4 break the molecule at the benzylic position? or ozonolysis?
 
Hot KMnO4 or ozone would drive it to a mess of piperonylic acid & others. Useless for MDxx synthesis.

But we don't discuss synthesis here.
 
Here's where my interest is:

Piperine increases bio-availability of curcumin. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9619120

Curcumin is an MAO-B (selective?) inhibitor. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18408903

In theory (guessing here) it looks like it could be useful in a few areas, one being a home made Parkinson's treatment. I'd call that interesting :).

MAO-B Inhibition and Parkinson's

edit: argh... other information says curcumin inhibits MAO-A selectively, yet others say non-selective. This stuff is never easy :-/
 
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I can't find hard numbers, but I bet curcumin is no more effective as a MAO-I than e.g. Rhodiola (i.e. it's not active at normal dose levels) due to nobody ever getting "cheese syndrome" from eating tumeric.
 
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