Morphine vs. Oxycodone (tolerance?)

[kokaino]

This guy doesnt quit,he must not understand b/a...he thinks the b/a has to do with the power of the drug.or he has a genetic mutation of some sort that causes his body to destroy all morphine that enters his body.

I would take an IV shot of 100 milligrams of morphine over an IV shot of 200 mg's of oxy anyday.
He just doesnt understand,when its all metabolized,and b/a is no longer a part of anything,the morphine is stronger.whether it be oral,rectal etc...

He's a hopeless cause. The above post was my very last to him.
Let him drown in the excrement of his own idiocy.

 

[j2op]

This is my first post so excuse me if I don't come over well...
What I can remember is that morphine's bioavailablity taken orally is just 1/6 of that IV.
The reason for that is that morphine is a polar molecule harder to be absorbed, and very easy to eliminate.
Heroin (3,6-diacetylmorphine) is a very lipofilic molecule but still hard to be absorbed, while IV passes immediately in the brain and metabolized to 3-acetylmorphine
Oxy is much stronger orally but weaker IV because the A ring is masked by the Oxygen and doesn't interact that good with the mu receptor. Oxy takes also longer to be eliminated by the liver so lasts longer.
And besides, wikipedia is often right, especially when talking about drugs, but I won't always trust ONLY wikipedia.

 

[Supeudol]

This is my first post so excuse me if I don't come over well...
What I can remember is that morphine's bioavailablity taken orally is just 1/6 of that IV.
The reason for that is that morphine is a polar molecule harder to be absorbed, and very easy to eliminate.
Heroin (3,6-diacetylmorphine) is a very lipofilic molecule but still hard to be absorbed, while IV passes immediately in the brain and metabolized to 3-acetylmorphine
Oxy is much stronger orally but weaker IV because the A ring is masked by the Oxygen and doesn't interact that good with the mu receptor. Oxy takes also longer to be eliminated by the liver so lasts longer.
And besides, wikipedia is often right, especially when talking about drugs, but I won't always trust ONLY wikipedia.

Excellent post. Finally somebody that knows what they are talking about.
Great post j2! :D

Proove to these fuckheads that they have no clue what they are talking about. 8)

 

[kokaino]

Excellent post. Finally somebody that knows what they are talking about.
Great post j2! :D

Proove to these fuckheads that they have no clue what they are talking about. 8)

You are an absolute idiot. He basically said what I and Ontarioguy have been saying all along - that morphine is the more potent drug, but oxycodone is more readily absorbed through the gut and thus has a higher BA when taken orally.

Your claim that somehow oxycodone is more potent than morphine is mistaken at best or deliberately deceptive at worst. Either way, it's still utterly ridiculous and nonfactual.

Have a nice day! :D

 

[Supeudol]

kokaino the fago Post's a .gov source that says nothin about morphine being euphoric

According to whom, you?

A clinical research paper doesn't agree with you:



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13767429

I know why I prefer morphine over oxycodone. :D

Thats your source? .gov ? hahahaha you are fucking hilarious. So in other words, you go by what the US government says. The U.S. government is the worst in the entire world. Why do you think everybody hates Americans? And your dollar value is dropping like crazy, the Euro & The Pound are WAY ahead of you.

Haha you post a U.S. government source. I'm having the biggest laugh ever right now. That source also says nothing about Morphine being stronger than Oxycodone, or Morphine being euphoric.

The OP posted a question NOT about IV use you retard. So don't encourage it on here. This is a harm reduction site and the mods don't seem to be watching very well.

 

[kokaino]

Thats your source? .gov ? hahahaha you are fucking hilarious. So in other words, you go by what the US government says. The U.S. government is the worst in the entire world. Why do you think everybody hates Americans? And your dollar value is dropping like crazy, the Euro & The Pound are WAY ahead of you.

Haha you post a U.S. government source. I'm having the biggest laugh ever right now. That source also says nothing about Morphine being stronger than Oxycodone, or Morphine being euphoric.

The OP posted a question NOT about IV use you retard. So don't encourage it on here. This is a harm reduction site and the mods don't seem to be watching very well.

Are you that retarded? 8)

The study was conducted by MEDICAL RESEARCHERS - MARTIN WR, FRASER HF et el. The study was published in a MEDICAL JOURNAL called the Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics.

American government what?

 

[Supeudol]

Are you that retarded? 8)

The study was conducted by MEDICAL RESEARCHERS - MARTIN WR, FRASER HF et el. The study was published in a MEDICAL JOURNAL called the Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics.

American government what?

Do you know what .gov means, or do you not have any knowledge in Internet networking? .gov means the United States government. SO what if it was conducted by Medical Researchers - IT WAS STILL AN AMERICAN BULLSHIT STUDY. Anything from the government is full of shit, just like the media. Jesus christ you are dumb, you should at least know that by now?

And in that link, it said absolutely nothing about Morphine being more euphoric than Oxycodone.

 

[Heighton720]

LOL, morphine is complete shit. If you are taking 60mg of oxycodone/daily. Those 30mg mscontin WILL NOT even touch you. Morphine is complete shit, unless you IV it. Otherwise, there is no point to morphine. Oxycodone is already 1.5x stronger than Morphine. There is no comparison, Oxycodone is WAY stronger. Yeah those 30mg mscontin pills might make you sick if you are allergic to codeine and get sick from codeine. If I was you, I would sell those 30mg mscontin pills and get some Oxycodone.

You are correct! before i was using oxycodone BIG TIME i did about 2-3 30's a day..and one time I got a morphine 60 and I felt NOTHING from it..I was PISSED!!

 

[OntarioGuy]

^lol...you base this on some guy who snorted one 60(time release,which gels,stopping morphine from being absorbed.)
and was on 2-3 80's a day.he probably wouldn't have got very high from 60 milligrams of oxy either.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Some people are going to prefer oxy over morphine, or vice versa. People are different, that is all.

I personally prefer morphine and diacetylmorphine over oxycodone any day. However, I've been off of opiates for 11 and a half months, so I wouldn't use either to be honest.

 

[OntarioGuy]

Yeah I too prefer morphine,Im going to be off soon though,Im getting knocked down probably 10 milligrams or so tomorrow.Im at 200 milligrams per day right now (woot!Almost done Started at 600 milligrams per day!)

 

[raver2008]

I'd also like to see some proof of this. No one listen to this bullshit unless he can give a credible source of where his info came from.

Its very common knowledge morphine has a really shitty oral BA, its like 25-30 % varying slighty depending on the source.

This thread is definatly out of hand, if your talking oral, oxy is a better drug, if your talking iv, morphine is. Its rather simple

 

[CoMpMsTa]

Its very common knowledge morphine has a really shitty oral BA, its like 25-30 % varying slighty depending on the source.

This thread is definatly out of hand, if your talking oral, oxy is a better drug, if your talking iv, morphine is. Its rather simple

Very simple indeed.

 

[tdawe1]

Funny argument, everyone was right and kept on arguing that when no one even disagreed.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I don't know why you would be so concerned over defending a drug you can't even do anymore because you're on maintenance therapy.

"oxy > morphine" or "oxy < morphine" arguments are retarded. You can get high on either, and there are clearly better opiates out there than oxycodone or morphine.

This thread is not about BA's, and it's not about which one is better. It's about tolerance between morphine and oxycodone. That's all.

 

[elucidate]

I believe the confusion here is over the definition of the "strength" of a drug.

If I am correct, the actual strength of a drug is described by its "pharmacodynamics" - that is, the effect of the drug at its target site (relative to blood concentration).

The bioavailability etc. is described instead by its "pharmacokinetics" - the absorption, distribution, metabolism, and excretion of the drug. This describes only the movement of the drug around the system, not its actual power.

Morphine has different kinetics to oxycodone - it is less active orally (due to first pass metabolism). But its strength, by definition, is greater than oxy's.

Saying that morphine is complete shit and that oxy is much stronger, without qualification (or even with), is not correct.

I'm no expert and I might be mistaken in this, but I think that in general terms it is correct. Maybe someone who knows more can chip in?

P.S. Supeudol, you need to sort out your attitude mate.


EDIT: Now I'm just waiting for DJsim to come along and tell me I'm talking shit... lol

 

[brutus]

Its very common knowledge morphine has a really shitty oral BA, its like 25-30 % varying slighty depending on the source.

This thread is definatly out of hand, if your talking oral, oxy is a better drug, if your talking iv, morphine is. Its rather simple

You're right. I completely read his post wrong.

 

[suninthenight]

sorry I got back to this so late. Yeah my question was that I've been using 20 mgs of Oxy to get high, 3x a day. I came into two 30mg MS Contins, didn't know whether having 60 mg of that would be too strong and make me sick.

but from all the discussions I saw..because I take everything orally..the MS Contin won't have much of an euphoric effect. which sucks.

but thank you guys for helping me out.

 

[Nagelfar]

...Also MSContin is the worst form of morphine to come in.

M-Eslon, or Kadians are stronger because you get some more bioavailability from it, probably close to 50%.

^ do you have any sources to back up that some preparations of morphine have a higher bioavailabilty? cause im pretty sure that is BS....

This is a matter no one has brought up yet from browsing through the whole thread so far to my eyes, but I may easily have overlooked it being brought up...

This has to do with the type of morphine (or oxycodone) in its potency of its base as a medium. Morphine sulfate used to be the DoC of opiate abusers for a time, but now we are talking about Morphine HCl (hydrocloride) as the most readily available type am I correct?

So the bioavailability and lipid solubility to pass the blood-brain barrier is different. Morphine freebase or Oxycodone freebase will do very little, in the same kind of qualification that changes when one considers route. The acid attached makes me big difference. From Wikipedia:

....hydrochloride, sulphate, tartrate, acetate, citrate; less commonly methobromide, hydrobromide, hydroiodide, lactate, chloride, and bitartrate and the others listed below. Morphine meconate is a major form of the alkaloid in the poppy, as is morphine pectinate, nitrate and some others. Like codeine, dihydrocodeine and other, especially older, opiates, morphine has been used as the salicylate salt by some suppliers and can be easily compounded, imparting the therapeutic advantage of both the opioid and the NSAID....

So are we discussing Morphine Hydrochloride? I assume so, but it seems no one as to yet has said such. Morphine Sulfate is a slightly different matter, etc. And Morphine truly unqualified; Morphine Freebase; is an entirely different matter.

sorry I got back to this so late. Yeah my question was that I've been using 20 mgs of Oxy to get high, 3x a day. I came into two 30mg MS Contins, didn't know whether having 60 mg of that would be too strong and make me sick.

but from all the discussions I saw..because I take everything orally..the MS Contin won't have much of an euphoric effect. which sucks.

but thank you guys for helping me out.

Yes worry not. From personal experience if you are experienced with oral tablets of a certain milligram (20 to 30mg) of say Oxycodone, you could do upwards of double the oral amount of morphine, especially in extended release format, and barely get any more of an effect....

However one must note that the metabolic path of Morphine is much different than that of Oxycodone, and I think Oxycodone directly works as the strongest ligand of its metabolites, whereas the metabolites of Morphine are actually more powerful; Morphine-6-glucuronide (but not Morphine-3-glucuronide, note difference, 6 position covered is active, 3 position is not, this is universal in the morphine esthers/etc) ... Morphine is also a trace neuroblastoma created endogenous molecule created in small amounts in the human brain; and solely AFAIK among the opioids is one to additional effect the Mu 3 opioid receptor: no other known opiate effects this variant of the mu receptor other than morphine (or its metabolites).

Oxycodone also has more affinity for delta opioid receptors if I'm not mistaken....

In my opinion, tolerences considered, oxycodone is more mentally euphoric that is, in sense of well being, but only when IR railed or ER taken orally.... morphine and its pro-drug precursors have a better, more physically pleasureable body high when higher bioavailability is reached... I do not know how much of this is the mu3 versus delta agonism or histamine release versus the clean clear headed feel. Though morphine is a more intoxicating, fuzzy headed high, and the body high that is oxycodone is cleaner than, morphine is fuzzy in that way like: like being hit in the head and the warm dizziness that comes over you sans-all the pain; oxycodone is like sitting on top of a running washing machine for too long so that your body is vibrated into a fuzzy like, type of fuzzy feeling. In my opinion.... The mental wellbeing is more immediately noticeable with oxycodone. Whether this is due to it being cleaner in effect or more immediate because it's metabolites are not stronger than it is, I do not know.... I prefer IV morphine to IV oxycodone, because the fuzziness is better that way, and oxycodone's extra fuzziness is just like a drill press and not enjoyable in that it doesn't feel soft in its own way as morphine does and is a harsh fuzziness IV'd.

....but my most euphoric opiate experience ever in my life was plugging two 30 mg instant release (so called "roxicodone", but I do not think it was that so called brand name), smaller than usual round white pills with a line through one side and numbers or letters that I am forgetting, when my tolerance was low. Now I can shoot (at this moment, I am to detox in a day or so I very much hope) 2 to 3 balloons of heroin (depending on quality) at once and just get well and feel a quick warming sensation, nod more than actually feel euphoria, and wake up normal without chills and simply resilient to the conditions rather than "high"

 

[Drench]

Orally I'd take OC every time over Morphine due to the BA. IV would be a different matter.