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☛ Official ☚ Adding Tryptamines into Mushroom Substrate

F

FireNexus

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Joined
Feb 21, 2004
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13
Mushroom Substrate Potentiation

Welcome to the main thread for tryptamine doping of mushroom substrates

research doc: Biotransformation of tryptamine derivatives in mycelial cultures of Psilocybe

Relevant Shroomery Threads: 1 2 3 4 5 (5 has an awful lot of amazing links)

Trip Report of DiPT-doped mushrooms




"Some fascinating studies have been done in Germany where the metabolically active mycelium of some Psilocybe species have been administered diethyltryptamine as a potential diet component. Normally, this mushroom species dutifully converts N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) to psilocin, by introducing a 4-hydroxyl group into the molecule by something that is probably called an indole 4-hydroxylase by the biochemists. You put DMT in, and you get 4-hydroxy-DMT out, and this is psilocin. Maybe if you put Mickey Mouse in, you would get 4-hydroxy-Mickey Mouse out. It is as if the mushroom psyche didn't really care what it was working with, it was simply compelled to do its sacred duty to 4-hydroxylate any tryptamine it came across. It was observed that if you put N,N-diethyltryptamine (DET, not a material found in nature) into the growing process, the dutiful and ignorant enzymes would hydroxylate it to 4-hydroxy-N,N-diethyltryptamine (4-HO-DET) a potent drug also not known in nature. This is the title drug of this commentary. What a beautiful burr to thrust into the natural versus synthetic controversy. If a plant (a mushroom mycelium in this case) is given a man-made chemical, and this plant converts it, using its natural capabilities, into a product that had never before been known in nature, is that product natural? What is natural? This is the stuff of many long and pointless essays."
Click to expand...
(http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal16.shtml)


[original post:]

Let's say I were to put DiPT in with spores of mushrooms. Would the products be both Psiloc(yb)in and Iproc(yb)in?(Would that be iprocybin or something else, anyway?) Or just Iproc(yb)in?

Just wondering. Also, would the potency be effected if DMT were added in the same way?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
From http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal16.shtml


Some fascinating studies have been done in Germany where the metabolically active mycelium of some Psilocybe species have been administered diethyltryptamine as a potential diet component. Normally, this mushroom species dutifully converts N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) to psilocin, by introducing a 4-hydroxyl group into the molecule by something that is probably called an indole 4-hydroxylase by the biochemists. You put DMT in, and you get 4-hydroxy-DMT out, and this is psilocin. Maybe if you put Mickey Mouse in, you would get 4-hydroxy-Mickey Mouse out. It is as if the mushroom psyche didn't really care what it was working with, it was simply compelled to do its sacred duty to 4-hydroxylate any tryptamine it came across. It was observed that if you put N,N-diethyltryptamine (DET, not a material found in nature) into the growing process, the dutiful and ignorant enzymes would hydroxylate it to 4-hydroxy-N,N-diethyltryptamine (4-HO-DET) a potent drug also not known in nature.
Click to expand...

So it works for det. In theory if you doped it with dipt you'd get 4-ho-dipt and if you doped it with mipt you'd get 4-ho-mipt, etc. etc. But I don't know if anyone has tested this out and reported any results.
 
Doping your dope with dope to get the dopest dope

It wouldn't work with spores, cause the genetic information for producing that certain chemical doesn't exist in the shroom DNA in the first place. If you would be to inject the substance into the mycelium (fungal biomass) then you might get the effect quoted by ^^^. Erowid has articles on doping cacti to produce more mescaline for further reading on the topic.
 
I meant if you put the DiPT into a canister for mushroom growth with the spores.
 
Oh, I understand now.. my bad. Well, considering the evidence, it would be cool to give it a shot and experiment if you can. Maybe discover something worthy. No guarentees though.
 
this has been done with tryptamine fed to the fungus with success in producing more psilocin. apparently adding tryptamine and phosphoric acid leads to production of more psilocybin.

but yeah, one makes the tryptamine (or dipt in this case) part of the diet of the fungus, and one can add some phosphoric acid (this must be calculated, or things will get screwed up beyond repair quickly) to get the more stable phosphorylated tryptamine, although phosphorylation may be of no concern in this matter...
 
Just make sure you don't compromise your sterility or degrade your tryptamine. If you put the dipt in your growing medium before your pressure cook it you will likely decompose it from the heat. So instead you will have to inject it into your sterilized growing media in a sterile way. You could dissolve it in distilled water and then use a syringe filter like the one's used to keep microbes out of IM injections. You don't want to add too much moisture to the growing media either. It might actually be better to inject it when your mycelium is fully developed but has not pinned yet.
 
i dont really understand this.

you're saying that you put something like DiPT into the mycelium when they fruited, the mushrooms would have 4-HO-DiPT in them as well as psilocybin?
 
would adding a 5-methoxy tryptamine produce a 5-meo,4-ho hybrid tryptamine?



5-meo-4-ho-amt;)
 
Adding L-Tryptophan to Mushrooms Substrate

I read on shroomery that adding tryptamine HCL to mushroom substrate will boost the psilocybin/psilocin content in mushrooms. Some forum posts also claim that L-Tryptophan will work.

Has anybody here had any sucess in boosting psilocybin/psilocin content by adding a tryptamine or any other substance to substrate?

http://www.shroomery.org/index/ord/dat/way/des/par/7953
 
I've heard about people doing it. The same people tend to thing giving tyrosine to cactii boosts their hallucinogenic effects.

I'm personally very very skeptical, but if you can do it without getting to aseptic, whats the harm?
 
psilocybes CAN decarboxylate tryptophan to form tryptamine but tryptamine inhibits the enzyme that does this - you should theoratically get a higher psilocin content in the mushroom, but youd get much better results using tryptamine
 
Well, they have to get tryptamine from somewhere, and its almost certainly from tryptophan in their substrate. Where else would it be coming from? (not a hostile comment... curious)

I think your problem would be in getting some L-tryptophan to try this. I don't think you can just go buy it due to health concerns.

Extract it form a turkey.

Just kidding. Don't try that.
 
tryptamine comes from tryptophan, which comes from indole which comes from <insert long metabolic pathway here> which comes from glucose
 
sorceror said:
psilocybes CAN decarboxylate tryptophan to form tryptamine but tryptamine inhibits the enzyme that does this - you should theoratically get a higher psilocin content in the mushroom, but youd get much better results using tryptamine
Click to expand...

Wouldn't that mean you would get better results from tryptophan, since pure tryptamine will inhibit an enzyme? Or did I read that wrong.
 
In that case, you would get better results from tryptamine, all other things aside.
 
S1ngularity said:
Wouldn't that mean you would get better results from tryptophan, since pure tryptamine will inhibit an enzyme? Or did I read that wrong.
Click to expand...

the enzyme that tryptamine inhibits is tryptophan decarboxylase (which converts tryptophan to tryptamine) - this reaction doesnt really need to happen if youve added alot of tryptamine
 
I have added tryptophan to my mushroom medium. But haven't tested the mushrooms for activity. Scientific papers describe it as potentiating psilocybin content of mushrooms. I think there are other websites where you will find more info.
this might be what you are looking for. I don't have the full text, but remember that only triptophan and triptamine came out as usefull precursors. Triptamine being more potent.

AGURELL S; NILSSON LG
Biosynthesis of Psilocybin II. Incorporation of labelled tryptamine derivatives.
Acta.Chem.Scand. 22:1210-8 (1968) QD1.A325
The biosynthesis of psilocybin has been investigated by feeding labelled precursors to Psilocybe cubensis. The following specifically labelled compounds were synthesized: psilocin-3H, 4-hydroxytryptamine-14C, N,N-dimethyltryptamine-14C and -14C-3H, N-methyltryptamine-14C=3H and DL-Tryptophan-3H. A number of other indoles were labelled by acid catalyzed exchange in tritiated water. The experimental data suggest a sequence: tryptophan -> tryptamine -> N-methyltryptamine -> N,N-dimethyltryptamine -> psilocin -> psilocybin. The fungus can also by an alternative route convert 4-hydroxytryptamine to psilocybin. Large differences in the rate of absorption of different closely related precursors has been observed.
 
>>I think your problem would be in getting some L-tryptophan to try this. I don't think you can just go buy it due to health concerns.>>

you woulda been able to if it weren't for a contaminated batch sold in the US several years back.

ebola
 
its not a problem, i can get it.


I also read about adding phalaris grass and other dmt containing plants to substrate to increase potency. Has anyone seen this work?
 
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