St johns wort to bring the magic back

[MeDieViL]

Seems to be pretty effective

Experiment is al follow:
Take 6000 mg st johns worth for 2 weeks.
Wait 10 days
Take MDMA wich will be a blunted roll, and a week later take mdma again with the magic back.

Most recent update on the hypercium.

To my surprise it works, SWIF followed a 10 day intensive hypercium diet at 6000mg of st johns wort a day. 10 tablets in the morning and 10 tablets in the evening. Waited 2 weeks and then rolled on the saturday. The effects were extremely profound, the rushes were there and the extreme euphoria only generally associated with a users first couple of experience. The whole roll lasted for 5-6 hoursish with a 2 hour peak effects. SWIF found it extremely enjoyable. That said the 2 weeks prior to MDMA use after hypercium therapy were very strange SWIF felt somewhat depressed and down, all in all it wasnt a very enjoyable 2 weeks. From what SWIF understands this will rectify itself again as the serotonin receptors downregulate back to normal levels again.

IN summary does it work? Yes, is it worth it? Not really. for SWIF.

SWIF completed the experiment, taking 100mg of 5HTP for 2 weeks and then taking 500mg for 1 week and on the day of MDMA use taking 250mg every 4 hours upon waking from sleep. The roll was significantly stronger than without and also lasting for a longer duration. THat said something was still missing, it is interesting however that with the ST johns wort experiment i felt the other side of the roll. In other words SJW is increasing receptor availablity and 5htp making more serotonin available but one without the other provides an incomplete roll, while both were euphoric in differant ways, somehow one would have to harness both sides in order to get the "perfect roll".

Aside from this SWIF is taking some time off from drugs, time to give his body a break, at least till the summer festivals in a good few months.

Hope the info helped guys

SWIM has repeated the experiment multipulte times now. He has added a regimen of licorice root powder and panax ginseng to it, as well as piracetam. The St. John's Wort must be discontinued a minimum 7 days prior to MDMA, but as long as other supplements are continued, there should be no depression. They can be continued because they won't interfere with the MDMA experience. The combined experiment works about twice as well as just SJW alone and everytime SWIM has taken MDMA, he has rolled about twice as hard as the previous session. He is rapidly returning to his former ability to roll. It seems each time the experiment is done, it works much better. There must be a few month abstinence from MDMA after 2 sessions with it each time. The reason for 2 sessions is that the greatest benefits from these experiments is not seen until the second time one takes MDMA after attempting it. SWIM does not know why, that's just how it is. These experiments really might be the answer if done correctly.

just thought i'd share swiC's recent experience. swiC was out on the weekend and was offered a pill. he thought he'd give it and shot and this time it did work! not to the full extent with euphoric head rushes but the loved up feelings and body feelings were there which was much much more than he has got since his magic loss. also others that had the same pills also didn't get head rushes so its likely that was just the strength of the pills. swiC has not had any SJW in between MDMA trials but did change from aniracetam to piracetam. also since swiC's last experiment (the unsucessful one) he has found out that the people that were strongly effected by the pills that night had actually double dropped! so there's a fair chance they weren't not the best of pills to start with.

swiC plans to acquire known strong pills or MDMA powder and try this again some time soon and also plans to try the SJW thing again sometime after new years most likely for a full 8 weeks this time.

SWIM has done this experiment over several times now. He has preloaded numerous times with 5-HTP and has determined that this actually allows for a less speedy roll. SWIM has done both with and without 5-HTP and has always used the same exact amount of mdma and only pure mollies. So after several rolls, he noticed that if he preloaded on 5-HTP he was able to re-dose hours later and still have the "magic". However when he didn't preload with 5-HTP the re-dose would only cause a "speedy" roll. Because of this SWIM is guessing that low serotonin is definitely not the cause of losing the magic, but it is due to down regulation and/or lack of novelty.

Also SWIM used a blind test, which means he didn't know which pills contained a placebo or 5-htp. He tried his best to make a controlled roll. So swim is saying, 5-htp does not regain the magic, but only allows for more re-dosing.

OK! SWIM has to say, the SJW therapy worked like a charm! Three weeks ago, SWIM took 3 pills and felt little effects, now SWIM just took 1 of the same pills and rolled for roughly six hours! He took 4500mg SJW for 10 days, then one week before rolling he took 50mg of mdma which had no effect, but SWIM is pretty sure this potentiated his actual roll. Don't know the science behind it, but SWIM is positive taking the 50mg helped. SWIM would easily say this roll was much better than even his first. Thanks SWIYs

Yes, SWIM is aware of the depression, however SWIM is already undergoing the second treatment and doesn't want to waste it. He has already felt the effects of stopping SJW after 2 weeks of heavy dosage and to tell SWIY the truth, he didn't feel any bit depressed for some reason. SWIM took 4500mg of SJW daily for 10 days and stopped a week before rolling. That week he wasn't any bit depressed, anxious, or different from usual.

Ok, SWIM has been off the SJW therapy for a few days now, but he is very confused. For these past few days, he is much happier. SWIM is usually happy already, but since he stopped the SJW he feels much more alive and less static-y. He thinks this is odd, since most people say they are depressed after excess doses of SJW.

Experiences from this thread:
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47972

 

[matt2012]

So you are going to take suplaments for a month and then roll to see if you have an effect on getting the magic back. I would say that you can take your suplaments until you are blue in the face and they will do far less good than just the time away from the drug.

There really is no magic cure to allow you to regain the magic of MDMA. Time and healthy living will do more than any snake oil can.

 

[MeDieViL]

So you are going to take suplaments for a month and then roll to see if you have an effect on getting the magic back. I would say that you can take your suplaments until you are blue in the face and they will do far less good than just the time away from the drug.

There really is no magic cure to allow you to regain the magic of MDMA. Time and healthy living will do more than any snake oil can.

Taking breaks is no magic cure for MDMA, but taking breaks in combination with st johns worth seems to be very effective according to our swimmers.

 

[Shambles]

Wait 10 days

Just to emphasise this part for anyone thinking of trying this. St John's Wort has MAOI properties which makes for possible Seratonin Syndrome in conjunction with MDMA and a number of other drugs (and also some foods) so you really would need to make sure it's well clear of your system before taking MDMA again.

I have no idea whether this theory holds water as I personally don't believe in "losing the magic" but I appear to be very much in the minority on that one. Anyone trying this would be wise to be aware that high doses of MAOIs - even a mild one like St John's Wort - carries some risk of dangerous interactions with various foods and drugs. I'd approach this with some caution if I were to do it cos it seems kinda risky. I'd wait for someone who knows more about MAOI interactions to check this out cos it sounds dodgy as hell to me.

 

[MeDieViL]

Just to emphasise this part for anyone thinking of trying this. St John's Wort has MAOI properties which makes for possible Seratonin Syndrome in conjunction with MDMA and a number of other drugs (and also some foods) so you really would need to make sure it's well clear of your system before taking MDMA again.

I have no idea whether this theory holds water as I personally don't believe in "losing the magic" but I appear to be very much in the minority on that one. Anyone trying this would be wise to be aware that high doses of MAOIs - even a mild one like St John's Wort - carries some risk of dangerous interactions with various foods and drugs. I'd approach this with some caution if I were to do it cos it seems kinda risky. I'd wait for someone who knows more about MAOI interactions to check this out cos it sounds dodgy as hell to me.

I agree
On the part on whether it will work, we've only got a few anecdotal reports but they seem to be very promosing. So its more then just a theory.

 

[iNOVA]

st johns worth is apprently the way to get the magic back, far more effective then taking breaks.

Taking breaks is no magic cure for MDMA, but taking breaks in combination with st johns worth seems to be very effective.

You seem to have a disillusioned theory on what a long break is. A month with all your major supplements is NOT a break. And your talking about Rolling with muted effects and then a week again after that?

That just doesn't seem very intelligent. I have heard piracetam can help, but its certainly no magic cure either.

Suppliments are an important part of the MDMA recovery, but they are not wonder drugs that can just bring back the magic over night.

MeDieViL You need to seriously re-evaluate the reason you are using MDMA. It would seem that you have learned nothing other than trying to come up with new methods to chase the High.

Diagnosis for you - 5 Month Break.

 

[MeDieViL]

You seem to have a disillusioned theory on what a long break is. A month with all your major supplements is NOT a break. And your talking about Rolling with muted effects and then a week again after that?

That just doesn't seem very intelligent. I have heard piracetam can help, but its certainly no magic cure either.

Suppliments are an important part of the MDMA recovery, but they are not wonder drugs that can just bring back the magic over night.

MeDieViL You need to seriously re-evaluate the reason you are using MDMA. It would seem that you have learned nothing other than trying to come up with new methods to chase the High.

Diagnosis for you - 5 Month Break.

I'm talking about breaks that can last a year, they dont seem to be the magic cure for mdma tolerance, i havent taken mdma since a year now.

 

[Xevro]

forgot that mdma exist, how bout that, for like over a year, then take it, erase from ur memory. im sure its better then taking em shitty supplements witch arent supose to be taken for that purpose alone.

 

[pyrodemon915]

I think the magic is psychological more then anything, like xevro said just take a long break so you forget it.

 

[theonex]

since people seem to be taking SJW to "gain the magic back" , does this mean it helps to naturally increases seratonin production or something?

I went on a semi-binge back in november, rolled once a week for four weeks straight. i think a total of 9 pills (all high quality pills)

after my binge i had really severe side effects (depression, severe loss of memory, couldnt think/use imagination as well, etc.) that lasted for about a month or two. I'm finally starting to feel almost back to the way I was pre-MDMA abuse.

Will SJW + 5htp help me get my natural state back? Or will it just fuck with seratonin even more and set me back?

 

[MasterSplinter]

Medevil we have been through this before...

You are too fried son.

Your magic ain't never comin bak. Move on

 

[RGB]

This thread covers almost exactly the same topic: St. John's Wort and the Return of the Magic - Reloaded

Stepping back from the exact mechanism of serotonin up-regulation a bit, I think it's good to keep in mind that "the magic" is not a direct result of the sensitivity of your 5-HT receptors. If you're chasing after the diaphanous high of your first time, you've already irreparably lost "the magic" in my opinion -- the drug has become a chore rather than a pleasant and innocent experience.

 

[avcpl]

"the magic" is not a direct result of the sensitivity of your 5-HT receptors..

RGB, could you please explain this a little more or site where you got this from?

I thought that the receptors down regulated in the presence of the mdma induced serotonin "flood" and that with enough time the receptors would eventually up-regulate.

I believe the SJW theory is that although the receptors do up-regulate, they do not at absolutely 100%, "mdma naive" levels, thus leading to still a "magical roll" but not quite the "MAGICAL roll" of that first time. (Others attribute this difference to loss of novelty).

It seems that those that have not used heavily and waited extended periods (a year or more)--long enough for serotonin replenishment, receptor up-regulation, and for the experience to be novel again, still did not quite get to the "first time" level. Yet after the short and intense SJW trials they have reported as good as if not better than the first time and hypothesize the receptor up-regulation to be the mechanism.

Of course there are so many variables, including expectations, placebo effects, etc. but I would like to hear your thoughts of the roll of receptor down-regulation in the effects of the mdma experience.

Thanks!!!

 

[roller11dude]

^^ i think expectation is the biggest factor for the first roll being the best. Because for me it was my third roll that I find myself always chasing, first ones i took one MDMA cap while i was drunk so i barely felt it, then when i took 2 while sober is when i had such a magical night. I don' think the HT-receptors actually permenantly down regulate after the first time. More that most people have no idea what their in for when they take MDMA, i thought i was just gonna be a more happy drunk feeling... boy was i wrong

 

[avcpl]

. I don' think the HT-receptors actually permenantly down regulate after the first time.

Well, there are others that do think that. How are we really to know?! Maybe it's just 1% and that makes a perceptual difference; who knows?

It just seems there is so much focus on serotonin on this forum, when that is only part of the equation.

From what I understand, we have plenty of serotonin for a roll and only a small amount is actually released with mdma (but more than is ever "naturally' released). It is only over frequent, heavy usage that you get in danger of it "running out".

I wonder, (RBG again your input is needed!), when mdma releases the serotonin, wouldn't there always be more serotonin available that there are receptors for it to attach to? or not?

 

[rickolasnice]

He has preloaded numerous times with 5-HTP and has determined that this actually allows for a less speedy roll. SWIM has done both with and without 5-HTP and has always used the same exact amount of mdma and only pure mollies. So after several rolls, he noticed that if he preloaded on 5-HTP he was able to re-dose hours later and still have the "magic". However when he didn't preload with 5-HTP the re-dose would only cause a "speedy" roll. Because of this SWIM is guessing that low serotonin is definitely not the cause of losing the magic, but it is due to down regulation and/or lack of novelty.

Doesn't make sense?

 

[LonE1]

Sometimes their is things in life you just need to let go.

just let it go man....the magic is gone....just let it go....

 

[LonE1]

my magic died a long time ago. I dont even enjoy the feeling of rolling like i used 2 and the comedown isnt worth the weak roll (even on pokeballs and molly) anymore. Sometimes things just go away and magic is one of them. Be grateful of the good times and move on.

 

[RGB]

avcpl: my apologies for taking so long to respond. To be honest, that was kind of a flippant comment on my part, arising mostly because I feel like people pay far too much attention to the role of serotonin in the MDMA experience. Specific 5-HT releasing agents like MDAI don't give the same effect as MDMA, and it's because rolling involves specific "windows" of dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine, and oxytocin release which intersect to form the experience. MDMA is better termed an SNDRA (serotonin-dopamine-noradrenaline releasing agent), because it has action at all the major reuptake sites (even though its most prevalent action is at SERT).

With that in mind, I truly believe that the "magic" of MDMA goes beyond even having your brain in an MDMA-naive state. Novelty plays a huge role, and so does fear, the fear of losing the "magic" of the experience. Shulgin's original comments on the topic arose from users complaining about a drop in the quality of their experiences, not because he discovered a pharmacological principle underpinning this "loss of magic". The question of the "loss of magic" has to be approached from the perspective of a user's mindset rather than a strictly physiological effect, because those are still free variables in the problem. If MDMA no longer caused the pure physical effects (i.e. neurotransmitter release, elevated heart rate, mydriasis, etc.) and we called that "loss of magic", then I think it would be prudent to approach it as a physiological problem.

Anyway, I'm starting to ramble here. If St. John's Wort works to enhance the experience, then I'm by all means for it, and I think there are good pharmacological reasons for why it would. Nevertheless, it shouldn't be the horse on which we hang all our hopes for enjoying MDMA again. That's basically what I was trying to get across.

 

[avcpl]

No need for an apology. I completely understand what you are saying now; thank you for the reply. And in fact, I completely agree with what you are saying!

I'm going to continue with my trials and errors, mostly because it is just my nature to do such things. I'll be sure to report anything of interest.

Cheers!