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Thread: Suboxone/Buprenorphine Megathread and FAQ v4.0

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    BL Ambassador Captain.Heroin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BollWeevil View Post
    Another thing, I thought I was being smart, digging myself out of the huge hole I created for myself by gradually tapering both drugs. How the hell are you supposed to get off Suboxone, when you're breaking the pills down as small as is feasible? I read about 6part7 using loperamide, which is probably what I'm about to try, but what is the actual medical method to get off?
    A taper schedule.

    If you keep gradually reducing your dose, you'd be surprised "how low you can go" so to speak.
     

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    ^I did taper, all the way to breaking the 8mg Suboxone down to about 20 pieces, the last ones getting gradually smaller. I estimate I was insuffulating 0.3mg by the last dose, and I still have some pretty unpleasant withdrawl symptoms. My question was, what do you do once you have gone as low as is feasible?
     

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    BL Ambassador Captain.Heroin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tihawaii808 View Post
    anyone else out there attempt smoking subs? i love smoking OC.80s and and addicted to the immediate feelings and quick come up and it seems to be a bit stronger then inter nasal, blah blah blah anyway this led me to want to try smoking my Suboxone 8mg pills the same way, after lots of research i found little on this subject so i wanted to add my experiment
    smoked 1/8 of a sub on foil
    trailed easily and simple to smoke on foil, but it tastes disgusting! nothing like oc but after holding in the smoke i feel a slight heaviness starting in my chest/arms

    anyone know/can estimate approx duration times and bio-availability? has anyone else tried this? i daily smoke anywhere from 60-150mg and up worth of babys and 80's yet i rarely exp. withdraws n such but got some subs and wanted to get high. any other information on this would be greatly appricated
    Don't smoke babies. That's supposed to be a pun on whatever you call "babies" (I haven't heard that as a slang term for drugs before).

    But, seriously, don't smoke Suboxone. I'm sure the fact that it "tastes disgusting" when you tried it isn't a good sign.

    I have no more info to share though - if I knew that this could be done safely I would surely share on how to - I have never attempted to smoke nor snort Suboxone before - I don't think it would be worth it for myself, personally speaking.


    Quote Originally Posted by BollWeevil View Post
    ^I did taper, all the way to breaking the 8mg Suboxone down to about 20 pieces, the last ones getting gradually smaller. I estimate I was insuffulating 0.3mg by the last dose, and I still have some pretty unpleasant withdrawl symptoms. My question was, what do you do once you have gone as low as is feasible?
    Go a bit lower?

    The options in the US are limited as far as tapering with opiates goes.

    You have the options of methadone and buprenorphine, legally speaking.

    You can get any other drug you want (not necessary legal in the US though) to help come off of buprenorphine. However, more buprenorphine - or methadone, are essentially it.

    There are other approaches to ORT, but not many would be better suited for the job other than buprenorphine.

    I would suggest to taper even lower - to about 0.25mg or 0.2mg per dose (0.2mg each dose which would be 40 piles from a 8mg pill) - this should help out.

    Another suggestion is to acquire any short acting opiates you can which you know you won't have a problem with taking (I don't have a problem with any other opiate other than heroin - hence I can take hydrocodone or codeine and not feel any need to repeat the experience) - this can help.

    You can also try out benzos, or weed, whatever really does it for you. However, these last 2 suggestions aren't a "legal alternative" like Suboxone or Methadone are.

    If you want to move to the UK; they have approved dihydrocodeine (DHC) for ORT either by itself or alongside MMT (methadone maintenance therapy), so that is a legal option for UK residents. From what I heard from BL'ers from the UK, it's kind of hard to get from a doctor for the purpose of tapering - but some have managed to get it.

    I'm sorry the law hasn't caught up to practicality in any sense of the word.
    Last edited by Captain.Heroin; 05-10-2009 at 16:10.
     

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    BL Ambassador Captain.Heroin's Avatar
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    -> Suboxone Mega Thread.

    Talking about coming off of Suboxone goes into the Suboxone Mega Thread too.
     

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    major bump

    i just wanted to comment that the mods on this thread r doing a great job.. n sir cap-e-ton heroin u being off h fer soo long i think ur rank should b removed lol na tho in all seriousness tho everyone knows me but i don't think we have had the pleasure of talking but ur great man keep up the good work.. n all the senior mods that kno me u already kno Watt it is

    but just a Lil side bar i'd like to kno watts good wit benzo's n sub..

    i have been on sub for over a year n sum change maybe longer n zans Lil less than that with them i was doing 2 zans a day 1 mg, in combo wit the sub ' dosed together lol ' but anywho now i do 2 mgs of blues or bars orally wit my normal dose of sub which is usually around 2 to 4 mgs sniffed/snorted..

    n my concern is the whole idea behind these 2 together i mean i kno the basics i wouldn't be combining them if i didn't..

    but i wanna kno in detail.. plus Watt would it b like wit the withdraws cuz i kno benzo withdraw is bad alone.. i wanna kno Watt im doin to myself or can do..

    plus these aren't really my drug of choice i kinda got caught up in it wit my wife who which everyone knows was in a bad car incident with metal rods n screws in her back broke ribs broke t2 thru t10 large scars permit damage the list goes on so she's on these meds for pain self medicaided n prescribed.. lol

    but to Da other question i love psyc's n they love me so these combo's that i use daily combined witt ecstasy/mushrooms/nos/bzp [ witt the occasional dirty e ]/special k/2-cb sum other rc's n other psyc's that may happen to pop up not all at the same time of course. Watt would these substances combined do to the psyc's?? as much info as u can tell me cuz that is a wide array of substances..

    plus if ms. mod lacey k.. my home girl katy if u look at this thread call me!!! when u gonna visit again?? or if anyone talks to her tell her to hit me
     

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    Bluelighter StaffWriter's Avatar
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    I would have to say anyone would be hard pressed to find a doc in the US who would willingly give you a script for any opiates to help get off Bupe because most of us got addicted to those very opiates that would help and they would not encourage us to ever use again under any circumstances. They would consider that a failure, even if you voluntarily went on bupe. Now once I had to have surgery after being on 16mg a day of bupe for about six weeks. My doc told me to stop and gave me 30 Perc 10s for the day before surgery (to keep the sick away) and for pain management after surgery (I got 5mg Vics and then 28 dilaudids from the surgeon and ER). Because I was going to jump back on bupe, he had no problems holding me over. But I just don't see him giving me even Ultram to help get off the bupe because there have been reports that even something like Ultram has caused some people to relapse.
     

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    What's the best way to take suboxone? i mean snorting it, crushing it up then put it under the tongue or put it under the tongue? also I want to start tapering off, I've been prescribed this stuff for a really long time and i think i want to stop taking it but i've read the wd's can be pretty bad if you just stop taking it so I'm wondering if I should come up with a schedule to start tapering off
     

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    ^Yes, taper, read some above posts. I'm having trouble coming off 0.3mg snorted per day. (snorting is a good bit stronger than under the tongue, maybe 2x as strong, give or take... If you're gonna put under your tongue, don't crush it first because you will swallow much more.)
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Heroin View Post
    Go a bit lower?

    The options in the US are limited as far as tapering with opiates goes.

    You have the options of methadone and buprenorphine, legally speaking.

    You can get any other drug you want (not necessary legal in the US though) to help come off of buprenorphine. However, more buprenorphine - or methadone, are essentially it.

    There are other approaches to ORT, but not many would be better suited for the job other than buprenorphine.

    I would suggest to taper even lower - to about 0.25mg or 0.2mg per dose (0.2mg each dose which would be 40 piles from a 8mg pill) - this should help out.

    Another suggestion is to acquire any short acting opiates you can which you know you won't have a problem with taking (I don't have a problem with any other opiate other than heroin - hence I can take hydrocodone or codeine and not feel any need to repeat the experience) - this can help.

    You can also try out benzos, or weed, whatever really does it for you. However, these last 2 suggestions aren't a "legal alternative" like Suboxone or Methadone are.

    If you want to move to the UK; they have approved dihydrocodeine (DHC) for ORT either by itself or alongside MMT (methadone maintenance therapy), so that is a legal option for UK residents. From what I heard from BL'ers from the UK, it's kind of hard to get from a doctor for the purpose of tapering - but some have managed to get it.

    I'm sorry the law hasn't caught up to practicality in any sense of the word.
    Yeah, unfortunately for me, I just moved and don't have access to the street drugs I did a month ago, and my supply only allowed to taper down to the ~0.3mg... I was buying the bupe off the street because of the ridiculous price of the doctors, and the fact that I had originally switched to methadone to taper, which I hated. (And $11 per day at the clinic!?! My ass!)

    I really wish I could drive back to my hometown and buy some damn hydrocodone, taper from there, and then smoke a joint... Oh well, hopefully a bit of loperamide, some extra clonazepam (on top of what I'm already addicted to ), and some Tylenol will suffice.
     

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    Well BollWeevil, I just hope you keep me and everyone else updated through this whole process, especially in terms of how long your w/d is lasting and such. I'm going to be jumping off Suboxone after 13 months on after tapering to 0.5mg - 1mg a day. I'm scared. lol
     

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    Bluelighter
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    does bupe actually stop all OXY w/d? I want stop the 2 week binge im on... i have plenty of subs..

    but im hoping i will be able to go to work and act normal.. and not look ridiculous or feel like shit at work...

    only been taking like 60-90mgs of oxy a day



    oh and i dose every day at around 5pm and dont even start really feeling w/d until 5pm the next day 24hrs later
    Last edited by cire113; 06-10-2009 at 01:56.
     

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    ^the subs are only going to alleviate the wd symptons from the oxy until you're ready to then come off the buprenorphine. to get completely clean you're going to have the face the wd's sooner or later, whether they're related to the bupe or oxy. the bupe taper gives you the advantage of being able to taper down your dose to avoid as much of the discomfort as you can.
     

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    Bluelighter
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    ^^ thanks but does the BUPE eliminate all OXY w/d and make me appear "normal"???

    Im just worried about the work thing... i cannot appear dopesick or acting not normal at work il bbe fucked for alot of reasons
     

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    of course, it's an opiate. with the kind of tolerance you have around 1-2mg should hold you more than sufficiently. bupe is a lot more potent than oxy so you dont want to go taking over the top doses of the bupe to hold you because you'll only end up raising your tolerance overall
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by drewbocop View Post
    Well BollWeevil, I just hope you keep me and everyone else updated through this whole process, especially in terms of how long your w/d is lasting and such. I'm going to be jumping off Suboxone after 13 months on after tapering to 0.5mg - 1mg a day. I'm scared. lol
    Sure thing! I'm hoping for the same thing you are... not too long or difficult of w/d.

    I can't believe the potency of 0.3mg bupe! I thought that would be a fine place to stop at, but apparently, you're supposed to go lower.
     

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    Bluelighter bang that shit's Avatar
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    Bah might get my sub script taken away, my parents found out I used twice while on it, and they dont wanna pay for it just so i dont get sick. In case I do lose the script I know a guy with 2mg subs....

    this thread is for information on the different formulations of buprenorphine and not to help you find a good deal. if you're after what people pay for their subs then check out the price thread after reading the rules and guidelines to familiarise yourself with how things are ran in OD. - leftwing
    Last edited by leftwing; 07-10-2009 at 03:02.
     

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    well.. i guess i'll wait for da mods or maybe sum1 wit sum knowledge will answer my questions..

    thanx in advanced
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilczey View Post
    well.. i guess i'll wait for da mods or maybe sum1 wit sum knowledge will answer my questions..

    thanx in advanced
    If you read some of my recent posts, I'm going through the exact same thing you are (bupe and benzo dual addiction... I started at 3mg Suboxone snorted daily, and 3mg Xanax daily). The biggest problem I had when tapering down initially was the fact that the drugs potentiate each other so much that even the smallest decrease in either drug is pretty dramatic. What I eventually did was gradually switch from Xanax to Klonopin because it lasts longer and makes tapering easier (note that Klonopin isn't the most ideal benzo to switch to; Valium is. The equivalency between these benzos is 0.5mg Xanax = 0.5mg Klonopin = 10mg Valium. When you're switching from one benzo to another, gradually work in about 0.5mg of Klonopin or 10mg Valium approximately every week (take more time if needed), replacing 0.5mg of the Xanax. You'll have to switch from Xanax because it is way too short lasting, and when you get to lower doses you will w/d between doses)

    Now, let me explain how I got to where I am now. First, I concentrated on dropping from 3mg Suboxone up the nose to 0.3mg also up the nose, over the course of a few months, all the while tapering down my benzo dosage, which, as I said earlier, I had switched from Xanax to Klonopin (through these months, I only dropped about half of the total benzo dose). I did this very gradually, and focused on the Suboxone first because of a few reasons, one being the fact that benzo tapers take an incredible amount of time, and the other reason, as I explain a bit more later, makes it easy to get a doctor to help you get off benzos (they know how dangerous benzo w/d is...). I'm now w/ding a bit from completely stopping the Suboxone A) because it's so damn strong, and B) because the mixture of the drugs makes for both drugs acting stronger than either drug on it's own. I will be able to deal with the w/ds, but I'd recommend getting a few weaker opiates to to the last part of the Suboxone taper with, after you get down to, say, about 0.5mg or maybe even a little less. Then you have the Klonopin taper to worry about, but any doctor will understand that you can die from w/ding from benzos, and you should be able to get a legitimate script to go nice and slow off of them.

    Anyways, that's my plan, and it seems to be working pretty well for me. Like I said, I went from 3mg snorted Suboxone and 3mg Xanax per day to no Suboxone and about 0.75mg Klonopin in a matter of about 3 months(give or take a few weeks). It's not going to be easy to do, but it shouldn't be too painful either if you go slow!

    If you want to know everything there is to know about benzo w/d, I reccomend reading the Ashton Manual, so you know exactly what you're in for and how to prepare for it. Good luck!
    Last edited by Pegasus; 06-10-2009 at 04:59. Reason: Patchwork
     

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    Greenlighter
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    Quote Originally Posted by hovadagod View Post
    How ouwld anyone suffer zero WD's when jumping from 2mg of bupe. The only people who believe that you don't have WD at 2mg are the suboxone doctors.
    heh. I actually did come off 8 CT but only after about 1 month of use. But yeah, good point, bupe docs are morons who get all of their info about bupe from the inserts in the box and from drug company reps. If Rickett and Benckiser actually wanted anyone to ever taper off using bupe in a realistic fashion, they would have produced a 100 microgram tablet as well as the 2 mg and 8 mg tabs. This would allow Johnny End User to really do a refined taper and jump clear from a very low dose. Fact is, however, the company only wants a maintenance drug, not a taper/WD medication because maintenance means lots more $$$.
     

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    I think that one thing to remember about suboxone is the very long half life and that when tapering time between doses is an important factor. When I was first rx'd subs I was on 24mg/day and after 2 months I was on 16mg/day, and then 12mg/day, and now 8mg/day. I plan to start getting rx'd the 2mg so I can go down to 6/mg, then 4mg, then 2mg/day, then 1mg/day, then .5mg/day over the next 4-5 months. If all goes to plan I will have been on sub maint for 14 months or so and I am hoping that I am able to live my life normally without suboxone.

    But, if I can't I know that I can always go back to suboxone which for me is much better than my daily heroin habit of 5 years was.
     

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    Well I guess since this still keeps getting responses I'll finish it up and respond. As you can see I posted this on Sept 17th and its now October 6th so its pretty outdated.

    To everyone who thought i was bullshitting or what not, no I didn't have a WDs. I haven't taken sub since. It could have been my free ticket who knows. I was on a small amount as I posted in the beginning and only for a month.

    So yeah.... Never got WDs. So yeah I think we can settle this now. Everyone's bio and chem makeup is different. Granted people have withdrawn off of less, I don't know what to say other than this time it didn't happen. Not that I think I can get away with this all the time.....
     

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    Bluelighter
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    Quote Originally Posted by passtheflask View Post
    Well, I've been taking it daily for about a week. I didn't take any yesterday, but tonight I didn't take any more or less than my dosing the previous few days but had a sip of promethazine and I feel great. No headache, and no nausea.
    Tried this again today, and the bupe is SO much better with promethazine. Way more noticeable effects. And as a side note, when I used promethazine with hydro/oxy I couldn't tell the difference.
     

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    lilczey you might want to keep out all the social banter in your post and keep to the topic and you'll probably find more people reading and answering your questions.
     

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    Bluelighter
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    Quote Originally Posted by tihawaii808 View Post
    anyone else out there attempt smoking subs? i love smoking OC.80s and and addicted to the immediate feelings and quick come up and it seems to be a bit stronger then inter nasal,<snip>
    What happens to the subs/OC when you start smoking them?

    Its not something I have ever, or will try - I'm just curious.

    Does it "run" on the foil like smack, or does it just turn black and burn? Do you have to add anything to the sub before you start?

    808
     

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    BL Ambassador Captain.Heroin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilczey View Post
    major bump

    i just wanted to comment that the mods on this thread r doing a great job.. n sir cap-e-ton heroin u being off h fer soo long i think ur rank should b removed lol na tho in all seriousness tho everyone knows me but i don't think we have had the pleasure of talking but ur great man keep up the good work.. n all the senior mods that kno me u already kno Watt it is

    but just a Lil side bar i'd like to kno watts good wit benzo's n sub..
    Haha, thanks for the compliment. I try really hard for this thread so that people have another outlet of support when using Suboxone, which has been helpful for many people (myself included) when it comes to quitting and tapering.

    As for the side bar: benzos and Suboxone can be a really nice combination. However, too much benzos can really be bad with Suboxone - you won't be breathing too quickly, you'll be nodding out too hard, and you'll regress to the age of a child and start making no sense/making a fool out of yourself.

    How I like to combine benzos with Suboxone is through low doses of benzos - so the synergy is still "really good" and not "too much". I.E. with my Suboxone dose, 0.5mg of alprazolam or 1mg of lorazepam work really well for me.

    i have been on sub for over a year n sum change maybe longer n zans Lil less than that with them i was doing 2 zans a day 1 mg, in combo wit the sub ' dosed together lol ' but anywho now i do 2 mgs of blues or bars orally wit my normal dose of sub which is usually around 2 to 4 mgs sniffed/snorted..

    n my concern is the whole idea behind these 2 together i mean i kno the basics i wouldn't be combining them if i didn't..

    but i wanna kno in detail.. plus Watt would it b like wit the withdraws cuz i kno benzo withdraw is bad alone.. i wanna kno Watt im doin to myself or can do..

    plus these aren't really my drug of choice i kinda got caught up in it wit my wife who which everyone knows was in a bad car incident with metal rods n screws in her back broke ribs broke t2 thru t10 large scars permit damage the list goes on so she's on these meds for pain self medicaided n prescribed.. lol
    Well, 2mg of alprazolam is quite high - what I would do is slowly reduce your dose of alprazolam to 1.5mg/day, then 1mg/day, then 0.5mg/day. Then, you can jump off completely or stay at 0.5mg/day for a while.

    Overall, taking a benzo with Suboxone on a daily basis would be undesirable for me, personally. I think taking benzos every day for quite a while reduces their medicinal efficacy, and keeping Xanax as a once-a-week or less frequent thing is a lot better than taking it every day.

    I am really sorry to hear about the bad car accident and the pain.

    Cessate the Xanax first - then you won't have as bad "wd's" (if you have them at all).

    but to Da other question i love psyc's n they love me so these combo's that i use daily combined witt ecstasy/mushrooms/nos/bzp [ witt the occasional dirty e ]/special k/2-cb sum other rc's n other psyc's that may happen to pop up not all at the same time of course. Watt would these substances combined do to the psyc's?? as much info as u can tell me cuz that is a wide array of substances..

    plus if ms. mod lacey k.. my home girl katy if u look at this thread call me!!! when u gonna visit again?? or if anyone talks to her tell her to hit me
    Psychedelics + buprenorphine is a really lovely combination. On the days you use psychedelics, I would forget about Xanax (or take 0.25mg or 0.5mg - a low dose) so the benzo doesn't take away from the trip at all.

    Mushrooms, MDMA, LSD, Ketamine = all great with buprenorphine.
     

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