Stimulants Amphetamine - The Drug You Learn to Hate

[Captain.Heroin]

I still get great effects with dextroamphetamine. I haven't used meth recently but it didn't become any less enjoyable for me as I kept using it for a while.

I have a high level of self-control when it comes to dosing amphetamines, and I also have ADHD so I am rather sensitive to them as is.

 

[Juice.]

In stage 1, when people first begin using amphetamine, they tend to believe it's a wonder drug which is enormously improving their lives. They believe they're smarter, funnier, and sexier. Their social lives have improved, their existing relationships with family members and friends have improved, they're better drivers, better dancers, better students, better workers, etc. If you're in that stage, you should know that most of your perceived improvement is merely the result of all the dopamine in your brain, and you're probably not (in reality) doing considerably better than you would if you consumed caffeine. Amphetamine only improves performance in tasks that require long periods of sustained will power and motivation, like a motherfucking staring contest. The rest is really in your head. After abusing both methamphetamine and dextroamphetamine extensively for over a year, I definitely agree, amphetamine is the drug you learn to hate.

 

[woamotive]

Holy sh*t - I'm at 7a. *the whole not being able to say things correctly/properly or over-explaining and therefore complicating everything (thing).... (ha!) is completely note-able in my day to day life + everything else listed.

I'm f*cked.

 

[DoctorNinja]

"been using for 5 years, no tolerance here"

maybe, but i guarantee you the high is nowhere remotely close to what it was like in your first 6 months of using. that's the thing with meth (or whatever), you can still get spun up on a half gram, but that high is a measly imitation of what it once was. at that point, using seems to be driven by the compulsion of addiction more so than by the pleasurable reward, cause the reward shrinks a little bit with each use cumulatively - in my experience anyway.

That's because you burnt your brains out by hitting 500mg the first time...you have to taper in. Try 20mg today, try 40 in a week, take a week break go for 50...if you do 200mg the first day 220 second, 350 third, it's called not knowing how to get high and also a pretty destructive approach.

If you cold turkey 500mg oxycodone daily dose you'll go to hell...it's not any different for the start. If you do nothing-500mg you burn your brains out and it's probably why you can't get the high back because that high was some single serving synapse destruction feast.

The only way you can get that high back is to get a brain transplant and burn it again...there has to be a limit to the pleasure or else we get into self mutilation. If I told you that burning your right hand to the bone would get you a high 10x better then heroin for a 10 hour duration, would you do it? There has to be a limit...

 

[Tech Kinetics]

I hate it because it makes me more productive at work.
More productivity = more money
Don't you hate being rich? :D

 

[arrix_is_alive]

Let me just say, in reference to the permanence of these effects we will eventually suffer, if we dont already: I was born with a congenital neural tube defect of my spinal cord. After multiple surgeries throughout my childhood, they finally got the tether under control, but most of my lwer body muscles were severaly affected, and for most of 2nd and 3rd grade, I was wheelchair bound. I was told I would be in that chair indefiitely, that my condition would deterioate until i could no longer walk and became a paraplegic. Well, fast forward over 10 years later, and I'm not only walking, I'm actively pursuing PT to further improve my muscular fucntion. In a part of my leg that had long been assumed totally nerve-dead, we recently discovered a tendon that can still be moved voluntarily. There is no limit for me in this. It will take lots of time and work, but as time goes on, medical science improves, and more hopes appear. The point of this is: In medicine, look at nothing as permanent except death. The human spirit is an incredible force, and we are proving doctors wrong about what we "cant ever do again", and what "can never heal or be fixed". Dont give up hope! There is ALWAYS a chance. We can prove doctors wrong and do amazing things we never thought we'd be able to. I'm living proof.

 

[girlygrrl]

Interesting read, thank you

I don't know if the same stages apply to cathinones, but I've had stages 1-3 in my year or so of usage. Stage 3 only generally happens if I overdo it, and it seems like if I take a week off from stage 2 and have a 5-htp or two in-between then my tolerance resets.

 

[drzoidbergphd]

i believe i'm nearing the end of 3, and have been taking adderall less and less, especially after finding about the neurotoxicity of it.

 

[halfoz]

I don't know if the same stages apply to cathinones, but I've had stages 1-3 in my year or so of usage.

You've used methcathinone for 1-3yrs?? how can you stand it? that for me combines all the negatives with more powerful stimulants, with none of the rewards (mega orgasms, euphoria, etc).

i'd rather pop too many caffeine pills and diphenhydramine than voluntarily take cat.

 

[girlygrrl]

You've used methcathinone for 1-3yrs?? how can you stand it? that for me combines all the negatives with more powerful stimulants, with none of the rewards (mega orgasms, euphoria, etc).

i'd rather pop too many caffeine pills and diphenhydramine than voluntarily take cat.

I've used it for one year now, for me it combines all the positives of other stimulants and none of the side effects. Caffeine is horrible and my least favorite stimulant.

I have binged on mephedrone on 2 or 3 occasions and I regretted it, but then took a break for a month or more and took some 5htp in between and it went back from stage 3 to stage 1.

My opinion on mephedrone is that either people do wayyyy too much of it to have a good experience (trying to "roll" on it), or they're getting crap (or mislabeled) product. It's a great drug but if you binge or keep pushing for rushing euphoria it is gonna get old fast. Some of the mephedrone powder that used to go around in the heyday was often cut with mdpv which I won't touch.

I just really prefer using stims at low doses rather than trying to chase a euphoria high. I have access to pure mdma so I don't feel the need to try to use other drugs to re-create the mdma-like feeling.

That being said I think mephedrone is a better "party" drug to go out dancing on than mdma. I prefer rolling in the comfort of home rather than being lovey-dovey with random strangers.

 

[Dysphoric]

It's depressing really. I started taking Amphetamine Salts (Adderall) back in February of 2009. I got for me ADHD, and I was blown away by Stage 1. Although, your durations are off, at least in my experience. Stage 1 lasted me easily 3 or so months taking it 3 times a week, 20mg's. Stage 2 lasted me 6 or so months, so on and so forth.

I eventually quit taking them due to random anxiety attacks and sleepless nights. I took about a 7 month break, and just 5 days ago returned hoping for stage 1 or at least stage 2. I took 40mg's and To my disappointment I got very little Euphoria, I wouldn't even consider it a Euphoria, it was just a a lifted mood, and no motivation. Like WTF?! After reading this I realize I'm finally done with them, there's no hope of getting the first 2 stages back. I was looking forward to this summer of awesomeness, trying to recreate 2009. But I guess not...

How would one go about getting stage 1 back? I know it seems hopeless, but any theories? If we understand how it works, then why can't we figure out how to reverse it? I fucking miss the Empathetic effects, and the Philosophical thinking, talking hours on end with people about life and what not.

The last thing I don't get is how when you're new to Amphetamines you don't crash, but when you start using it more you start crashing. Even after a 7 month break I still crashed from 40mg's.

Side note: I never binged. I took it 3 times a week at 20mg's for about 3 months, then reverted to 2 times a week at around 30-40mg's, and somehow I ended up as far as the beginning of stage 5?! DAMMIT I WANT THE MAGIC BACK!

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Let me just say, in reference to the permanence of these effects we will eventually suffer, if we dont already: I was born with a congenital neural tube defect of my spinal cord. After multiple surgeries throughout my childhood, they finally got the tether under control, but most of my lwer body muscles were severaly affected, and for most of 2nd and 3rd grade, I was wheelchair bound. I was told I would be in that chair indefiitely, that my condition would deterioate until i could no longer walk and became a paraplegic. Well, fast forward over 10 years later, and I'm not only walking, I'm actively pursuing PT to further improve my muscular fucntion. In a part of my leg that had long been assumed totally nerve-dead, we recently discovered a tendon that can still be moved voluntarily. There is no limit for me in this. It will take lots of time and work, but as time goes on, medical science improves, and more hopes appear. The point of this is: In medicine, look at nothing as permanent except death. The human spirit is an incredible force, and we are proving doctors wrong about what we "cant ever do again", and what "can never heal or be fixed". Dont give up hope! There is ALWAYS a chance. We can prove doctors wrong and do amazing things we never thought we'd be able to. I'm living proof.

Some things in medicine are permanent though; look at the neurotoxicity of some drugs (not recreational drugs - strictly neurotoxins that no one would willingly take) - and the permanent effects they can have.

You are correct in the sense that we don't know what is going to change for the better, but there are things in medicine, other than death, that are permanent.

The problem with doctors is that by the time someone has gone through medical school, and started practicing medicine, unless they are someone who should be a doctor, they likely will not actively seek out new information, and what they know only declines with their own age.

The problem with medicine is that doctors have to go through so many years of education in the first place. Most doctors eventually get totally apathetic about learning anything else since once you go through 8+ years of school, you get an attitude about it which is like "I'm DONE with that" because of how much work you have to put in just to start your career.

I haven't to this day met one doctor who contradicts what I just said. No doctors I have ever met have ever shown the level of appreciation of learning new things that someone like I do. That's why I know I will never be a doctor in this country.

 

[robotchef]

My experience has been similar to those of many posters here (thanks for the thread, Skunk!), although weed saw me through my entire amphetamine experience, from early use to severe dependence and finally withdrawal and recovery, which I think somewhat changed things. It really seems to have offered padding during the worst of it and unhinged my thoughts during the best of it, which itself was a little good a little bad.

I used 60-80mg/day of Adderall for about 5 months. I slept very little, I read a lot of books, but I fucked up my classes because I felt too smart for them. I had a lot of sex, I didn't eat and I lost a ton of weight. Every day a few people would compliment me on how I was looking and a few others would look at me with deep concern. It was very confusing. My heart often pained me, but I was usually compelled to push my body in spite of this. I decided I needed to stop after I scared myself into thinking I had taken a lethal dose of acetaminophen when I drank a lot of Nyquil. It was all I had around and I wasn't thinking clearly. In the morning I was terrified and confused; I dreamed of jumping off of a building and I wondered if I had already killed myself and was just remembering doing it. When my brain pulled itself back together I did some math to figure out whether I had suffered likely lethal liver damage. I was OK.

Anyway, I don't want to tell a horror story. I've been very lucky; I don't feel like I've suffered any permanent damage, and in spite of the pain, I don't regret my experience. I often have a strong sense of having gained a lot from amphetamine use; while I allowed my life and body to fall apart, I was reading constantly, exploring my own mind in higher resolution than would usually be possible, and branching out socially more than I ever had in my life, forming more and deeper relationships than before, and some of those friendships have persisted, surviving this period of heavy amphetamine use. Now when I ask my mind a question it is full of answers that I didn't have before. I lost a ton of weight and I love how my body looks and feels now.

But I also don't forget the days I spent lying on my bed, starving and confused and desperate for a moment's rest from my own thoughts. I am unsure how to respond to others who are curious about amphetamine. I don't feel responsible for their safety exactly, but I don't want to encourage someone to do something hurtful, nor dissuade someone from a drug that might help them. I think it made me stronger, but I might be wrong, and there are definitely people who have been irrevocably damaged by it. I know I thought for a while that I had disconnected permanently from reality, and I'm not sure my heart will ever be in really good condition again, so maybe it was not worth it. Hard to tell.

I also worry a little about something in particular. I'm going to ask my new psychiatrist when I have my first visit in a few days, but until then, I hope some bluelighters can give me their thoughts. I can only describe it as some very minor sort of epilepsy. Flashing lights when I'm out at a club (or anywhere) trigger slight muscle spasms and seem to send part of my brain off into dreamland. If I close my eyes, I will feel my eyes racing around behind my lids, holding themselves in tension, and I have vague impressions of images and memories, almost hallucinations but not real enough. Before I go to sleep, also, I feel my body tense and convulse slightly. This has been pointed out to me by others before I started adderall, but I think it became much more dramatic, and it worries me because it was worst during withdrawal. Have any of you experienced this? Did it become anything really serious? Should I worry that I am going to experience a seizure sometime when I am out at a club or walking home at night?

 

[Urgez]

I eventually quit taking them due to random anxiety attacks and sleepless nights. I took about a 7 month break, and just 5 days ago returned hoping for stage 1 or at least stage 2. I took 40mg's and To my disappointment I got very little Euphoria, I wouldn't even consider it a Euphoria, it was just a a lifted mood, and no motivation. Like WTF?! After reading this I realize I'm finally done with them, there's no hope of getting the first 2 stages back. I was looking forward to this summer of awesomeness, trying to recreate 2009. But I guess not...

well, you took a 7 month break... maybe you should try lowering your dose significantly, maybe 10-20mg and see if does anything for you. before i started abusing, i didn't understand that "less is more" with this stuff when you first start. i'd take a 30 and just feel like garbage, but the 15 was magical. ::

im nearing the end of my school semester and frankly im looking forward to a solid two week break from this stuff. back in feb, i remember 10mg would give me a decent rush. now, i need to redose a 20 every few hours to keep me motivated to get through school. i hope the vacation will do SOMETHING. ANYTHING.

 

[ziggo]

Very sweet post man, If we can do what you just did and write about all drugs with our wisdom of experience. This will show people the meaning they need to beat their addiction and we can all become free from cravings and addictions eventually. I've used amp and shot meth a good enough amount to now know almost the same as you, I've learned everything/almost everything I can from them and now additional use will just cause immense pleasure & pain sensations without much benefit, like jerking myself with the temptation.

 

[rakketakke]

This makes me really sad... I can see how I progressed through these stages indefinitely cycling between trying to get some use out of amphetamines, and being completely dependent on them. It really did drive me insane in the end and changed me permanently. At this point I don't know if I'll ever be the same, the massive amount of sleep deprivation with amphetamines has caused a strange blur in my vision. My thoughts are scattered, almost as much as my emotions. One minute I can't even imagine leaving my apartments because I hate everyone I know, then I'm in a group of people overjoyed and sociable. I have no idea what's going on with my life, I just keep obsessing over amphetamines because "they will solve ALL my problems".

People who are in this cycle need help... Serious, professional, comprehensive help. Someone like myself needs to learn how to live again, without amphetamines. Normal motivation has completely evaporated, leaving me with an emptiness I didn't know existed. This shit sucks.

Just a warning to anyone in this cycle, it will get worse. You may be permanently addicted, even when not taking the drug, constantly contemplating picking up again. I wish I had never been introduced to these robotizing phenylamines..

I binged last night on a gram of dexamphetamine sulphate, since my last use it has been a rough six months and either the purity was very low (which I doubt) or my tolerance has survived thusfar... Or maybe i'm just too much cognitively aware; i'm too much of an euphoria chaser...

Anyway no matter how much time I leave between usage (even a halfyear) amphetamines still fall on my mind week after week -> they will solve ALL my problems... I know that emptiness all too well same as not wanting to go on the streets and meet people and then suddenly I find myself partying my ass off with my friends.

Very strange, quite depressing but I can't seem to put a solid reason on it but to just solely blame the amphetamines, no can do! I take other drugs aswell and XI intelligence already leaves me feeling not right... Amphetamine binges completely reset me though AND I don't have ADHD yet I have adverse reactions; they calm me indefinitely and leave a strong feeling of mind over matter behind, I have no problems whatsoever with going to sleep and eating either ... I did abuse them briefly last summer so I suddenly do recognize a lot of things in this thread that affect me.

Yet I don't take any supplements to prevent neurotoxicity but i'd expect a healthy bookreading habit, intensive working out and a variated diet to definetly overcome most of the negatives; heck I survived brain zaps from abusing too much mdma.citrate daily and I could pretty much relativize most of those negative mood effects.

I should get my hands on some racemic amphetamine again; it always left me more euphoric, makes sense (to me) because apparently the isomer does potentiate the other one.

jaguraguguru...

9) Leyton M, aan het Rot M, Booij L, Baker GB, Young SN, Benkelfat C
Mood-elevating effects of d-amphetamine and incentive salience: the effect of acute dopamine precursor depletion.
J Psychiatry Neurosci. 2007 Mar;32(2):129-36.
OBJECTIVE: Midbrain dopamine transmission is thought to regulate responses to rewarding drugs and drug-paired stimuli; however, the exact contribution, particularly in humans, remains unclear. In the present study, we tested whether decreasing dopamine synthesis, as produced by acute phenylalanine/tyrosine depletion (APTD), would alter responses to the stimulant drug, d-amphetamine. METHODS: On 3 separate days, 14 healthy men received d-amphetamine (0.3 mg/kg, given orally) plus a nutritionally balanced amino acid mixture, the phenylalanine/tyrosine-deficient mixture or the phenylalanine/tyrosine-deficient mixture followed by the immediate dopamine precursor, L-DOPA (Sinemet, 2 x 100 mg/25 mg). Responses to these treatments were assessed with visual analog scales, the Profile of Mood States, and a computerized Go/No-Go task. RESULTS: d-Amphetamine elicited its prototypical subjective effects, but these were not altered by APTD. In comparison, APTD significantly increased commission errors on the Go/No-Go task and did so uniquely in conditions where subjects were rewarded for making correct responses; this effect of APTD was prevented by L-DOPA. CONCLUSIONS: Together these results support the hypothesis that, in healthy men, dopamine is not closely linked to euphorogenic effects of abused substances but does affect the salience of reward-related cues and the ability to respond to them preferentially.

Alas I am (not yet) no chemist/pharmacologist/doctor but if I interpret this right, dopamine in the end has nothing to do with it's euphoric effects... Anyone can shed some light on this?

 

[xbloodwhipx]

This is why i have never, or never will, take meth. Idk about adderall though its doesn't really seem that bad. I think you forgot to mention Formication? Any way nice post, could you do one on opiates?
EDIT: I mean like worse opiates like heroin and morphine, maybe include heroin addiction stages?

 

[spaceyourbass]

Sounds like any addiction.

I disagree; severe addiction to amphetamine leads to some very specific problems you won't get from other drugs. This is a wonderful and well-written thread that should be of use to many many people. A friend of the past recently blew his brains out with a shotgun and was without a doubt in Stage 8 as defined here.

 

[Korn3x]

man this thread is a wake up call to me. i started adderall for the treatment of ADD about 7 months ago. during the first stage it helped me out a lot and i was getting more organized and finally able to do my schoolwork on time instead of at the last minute. for my entire college and high school experience, i've never been able to study more than a day before the test. it just wouldn't happen no matter how much i tried. it's a miracle how i survived really, as i'd pull all-nighters for every exam, drinking pots of coffee to stay awake through the night. my brain would be put me in that "fear" mode since the exam would be so close, and it is what allowed me to finally focus on the material. those nights were definitely the worst nights of my life though, as sometimes i would even be puking the next morning before the exam due to how much coffee i would drink.

here i am about 7 months later, and i've started to notice a slight decrease in the medication's effectiveness. i take 15mg 2x a day, and sometimes it doesn't work for me, while other times it does. i think subconsciously i may have started to become slightly dependent on the medication, as my room started to return to its messy state, and i wasn't as organized as i once was when first starting the medication. i took it every day though for about 5-6 months (10mg 2x a day), and didn't notice any decrease in its efficacy. recently though, sometimes i noticed that when i take the medication, it's like i do everything but study. there have been times when i just spent all day posting on forums, or taking care of other less important tasks around my apartment, and then next thing you know its like 10pm at night and i haven't accomplished any work. when i first started amphetamines, my brain wouldn't allow me to waste any time and it was like i had this drive to finish my school work instead. i hardly ever abuse the medication. it's too important for school for me. it definitely is a life saver for textbook readings, as before i used to not understand what i read, and i'd have to reread the same thing lots of times before it finally sank in.

i recently was confronted with a hell week though regarding school, and i had 2 very HUGE exams that i had to study for. I did a big no-no, and over the course of 6 days i only slept less than 15 hours, which is something i've never done in my life. this was by far the biggest "binge" i've been on, and i was taking my prescribed dose every 4 hours or so to stay awake through the nights. i took as many precautions as i could though, and took like 2 or more servings of DXM several times a day, as well as taking lots of vitamins and magnesium. by my last exams, i wasn't getting much effects from the medication since i had most likely depleted a good majority of my serotonin, and i actually ended up taking too much during the test and had a very intense panic attack. i couldn't read any of the questions, my heart was racing, and i felt like i was going to lose consciousness. never again will i do that, or take them in such an irresponsible way.

as far as comedowns go, i don't really get them very bad at all. they're very mild for me, although sometimes i can notice it start to kick in slightly. as far as bitterness or other side effects, i haven't really noticed any. i make an effort to eat the right amount each day, and i also eat lots of fruits and vegetables almost every day (always raw of course), and make sure to take my vitamins and drink plenty of water.

i believe with this medication, it's very important to take days off. i have 2 big tests coming up again, and am going to try very hard to do my best with caffeine for the days that i decide to take off. the long term effects the OP talks about though scare me, and I feel like if i'm really going to function to the best of my ability, ima have to learn to get by without it more frequently in order to continue seeing positive results. i've already been making progress though, as during my 6 day break after my last binge i made some good efforts at cleaning up my place a little.

the negative effects on memory are what scare me the most. i remember the most detailed pieces of information just from everyday life experiences ever since i was young. i have memories that date back farther in my childhood than anyone i know, and there's not really much of my life that i have trouble recalling. some of my friends can't even remember much of elementary school, whereas for me i remember things in their entirety from even before pre-k. i like to think of myself as a genius, but my motivational problems and ADD prevent me from excelling to my fullest potential (sounds silly, i know). i've been trying to change my view on things though and "trick" myself into better habits and organizational skills. hopefully with more practice i can master my mind one day, and accomplish the things i know i can.

/amphetamine rant lol

 

[Rio Fantastic]

So you really can't stay at stage 1 no matter how sparsely you use amphetamine??