Stimulants Amphetamine - The Drug You Learn to Hate

[Kewell35]

I have the same problem, I can go two or three days without adderall and then I'm back on it. I no longer do productive things on it, it sucks. I feel a nice rush for about 45 mins and then poof, im back to just reading forums.

I used to study and do all sorts of shit on this stuff, now I just read articles and post on forums.

Fuck this sounds like what happened to me. How long you been on it for and what dose have you been taking?

 

[Ignot]

Fuck this sounds like what happened to me. How long you been on it for and what dose have you been taking?

I been taking it for 6 months. 40mg a day. The most I have EVER taken is 80mg. I NEVER binge dose either. I was getting shit done for the first two months and then BAM, That whole motivation/accomplishing goals feeling went away. The longest I have been able to stay clean is 11 days. I take for example 10-20mg for like three or four days and then I hop back on 40mg everyday.

I'm not going to tell people "I feel nothing" it's just the whole "Let's do math problems" feeling is long since gone =(

 

[Kewell35]

I been taking it for 6 months. 40mg a day. The most I have EVER taken is 80mg. I NEVER binge dose either. I was getting shit done for the first two months and then BAM, That whole motivation/accomplishing goals feeling went away. The longest I have been able to stay clean is 11 days. I take for example 10-20mg for like three or four days and then I hop back on 40mg everyday.

I'm not going to tell people "I feel nothing" it's just the whole "Let's do math problems" feeling is long since gone =(

It's similar to what I'm going through. The motivational effects are gone and I just feel to lie down and go on the web and read stuff. I have been taking 20mg/day for about a year now. I did take a break for like 1-2 weeks and I got back the euphoria/motivation for a couple days though. I'm thinking about just coming off of it for a couple months.

If I go higher than the 20mg/day I get paranoid/anxious/high so it seems like coming off might be the only option.

 

[crOOk]

What I meant is, can you get to Step 7 taking just 20mg/day for a year? Is it the frequency of the dosage or the amount of the dosage that influences the development of the negative features? If it is both, which one accounts for it the most?

It's the frequency. In my experience stimulant side effects don't scale all that much with the dosage. I was on 10-30mg or so per day for 18 months and you could just see my life crumble down bit by bit during that time until finally constant hypomania turned into a full-blown manic shitstorm. Now large doses of stimulants for (taken for a couple of consecutive days) merely extend the duration. It doesn't seem to affect me as much personality wise. I can still cry tears of joy just looking at that beautiful angel of a daughter of mine, opposed to being dominated by cold logic and enthusiasm for cognitive tasks. I will be more impatient and moody for a few days and - surprise surprise - I lose weight due to that non-sustainably low caloric intake, but that is about it.

On the other hand... People who have a prescription can last decades without it having any significant negative impact on their somatic or psychological health. A psychiatrist would argue that is because in the case of legit use opposed to abuse the amphetamine fills a void not apparent in the SUD patients. Still, when if you asked me I'd say frequency and duration matter a whole lot. Daily use is pretty standard for most stimulant users, so best make sure not to go on with it forever. I eventually had to quit because it was systematically ruining both my health, social life and bringing my academic progress to a halt. Let's just hope you are like me and recognize the warning signs (e.g. a lot more interpersonal conflicts, weight loss, ideas your environment looks at with great scepticism, inability to reflect on flaws in your behaviour to the point where you are blaming everyone but you for the shit youre into and tell yourself you need the speed because it makes you whole...). But hey, on the plus I acquired some MAD low level coding skills during these past years due to the cognitive enhancement. I suppose a lot of us experience comparable benefits, however miniscule they may be compared to the negs.

Oh god, I am ranting. That's what stimulants will do to you, see? See what a monster they have me turn into ? :D Not kidding. The worst part is that I like many others I become less and less able to focus my energy until the concept of free will seems like a mere trick of the brain, eventually becoming less real than the randomly ensueing flares of stimulant-imposed delusion. Only then seems the transformative loss of my personality whole, leaving me locked into a dirty sweaty stinking muddle-brained epitome of obsessive-compulsive procrastination spiked by episodes of enormous self harm (think 1000pokes with 70 in 2 nights and cleaning blood off the entire place for 12h straight).

Yeah, that's about what I am now, marking time by just wasting my life, struggling to stand my social ground against the personality mauling hail, made rather difficult due to what feels like blinding blizzard of anxious thoughts and ephemeral dreams I cling onto only to realize redemption was yet another illusion, still far from seizable however straining the latest endeavours I assigned myself to may have been, I am trying to move forward against this raging storm, now left a helpless captive in the cold grips of addiction, now engrossed in the bewildering delight, never hesitating to trade fleeting moments of sensual pleasure for the joy that life was meant to be, giving way to the stormy sea that life has come to drown me in, the chaos and confusion only eased by the brief relief of scarce encounters with but a few seconds of oblivion. Oblivious like parents who have turned away from those uncountable orphans whose sprouting youth, once an epitomy of coruscating life force promising a sanguine future as

comforting as warmth radiating from a bon fire when camping in Northern European on a windy rainy night, it is no more as of today, has faded into memory that feels as dim as the shadowy apparitions of erstwhile sharp minds belonging to the hopelessly insane they once seemed inseparably fused with, a memory now overcast by wailing lamentations of those whose deliverence to a fate of rejection has been reverbing as a haunting anguish of a unforgiven crime against an intense pain that since has grown to take on a gore-spitting vividness powerful enough to render vain every attempt of relief from the burden of regret from being those very special moments in time that nullify all other joy. Not only for a moment will the neglected grant relief, not only a singular unburdened aspiration may they take in however deep yearning for absconding into the serenity of life, the fate though once written for them yet lying occult to the faces of all creatures who are to cross time's path, concealed by dark stains of decisions long past and sealed by a mind since hypnotized into indulgence, by it's once unquenchable thirst for life, not hindered by a second thought soon afraid of his every move, bound to that illusion of freedom to fill his cup and shaken to the bone at the thought of resigning the safe-haven where his soul now lies chained as it vainly looks to cool it's burning desire, but instead is now an observer alien to himself, a stranger to life, not more than a torpid witness losing trust in his own senses at the unanticipated yet feared reality of grotesque imagery depicting the demise he is said to have brought onto himself, all the while aware of the complete lack of understanding the world would show for this most lonely end of his, trying to make sense of a world in which great ailing is met with great contempt, but more than anything he is wondering:

"My memory can impossibly play such tricks on me. I have long been very optimistic to live long and prosper and express be able to express all the love I have, I was certain to thrive on the beauty around me, willing to work towards finding a home where people could trust me with their life. But how then, looking at how things have turned out, could a person accuse my will of being free?"

And one last time he finds himself preparing for what had once made him so ecstatic that it gave off the illusion of changing his destiny, but has since long stopped haunting the what has become a barely

perceptible tingle from the

And one last time he finds himself preparing to blend out the long drawm out incomprehensible utterings of lingering spirits both from the presence as well as originating in days long past, the spirits that have throughout the decades grown to be strangers, when once we formed an inseparable unit that defined who I was. And then he wonders what things may be like if he hadn't been such a curious child, if he had not tried to find security inside the loving embrace of these few seconds, if he could look at the clock and attribute the same sense of meaning to it as my dog attributes meaning to a mirror. "Maybe that would've meant freedom?"

When he closed his eyes and saw his life flashing by, he came to a profound realization:

"The worst part was waking up to that god awful vague idea that I might have reason to actually have brought some shame onto myself. I knew feeling ashame the moment i open my eyes in the morning, for the variance in my moral standards (highly likely), having possibly put strain on friendships, most certainly on my health and i feel awfully weak for eliciting such the lack of control that could have held me back. But most of all, what I am really ashamed of is the beast that my

paroxysmal poetocarminolalia has turned into, leaving me unable to resist the untamable urge of haveing a regular chat or a forum post turn into an aimless endeavour during which direction is impossibloe to determine for myselfforget which sentence I am currently writing, often breaking off on the middle or not forming sentences at all writeup of some of the most try-hard yet laughingly bad pseudopoetically spiked stories the world has ever seen since self loathing tenth grade ghemo girls' self-pity laden diarrheous release of an entire week's emotional congestive emoccumulation.

I remember writing a 20 page letter to this completely drug and booze naive guy from Uni who I was gonna let in on my plan to bring a USB stick the next day for some filecopies, during another episode of verbal diarrhea I wrote one of my psychology teacher 4 pages... the list goes on and on. I might be bipolar but mania and stimulant psychosis can not be discriminated ver easily. Just saying, this is where you could end up or worse: pass by on the way to being an even more successful winner type of guy like me.

 

[Ignot]

It's the frequency. In my experience stimulant side effects don't scale all that much with the dosage. I was on 10-30mg or so per day for 18 months and you could just see my life crumble down bit by bit during that time until finally constant hypomania turned into a full-blown manic shitstorm. Now large doses of stimulants for (taken for a couple of consecutive days) merely extend the duration. It doesn't seem to affect me as much personality wise. I can still cry tears of joy just looking at that beautiful angel of a daughter of mine, opposed to being dominated by cold logic and enthusiasm for cognitive tasks. I will be more impatient and moody for a few days and - surprise surprise - I lose weight due to that non-sustainably low caloric intake, but that is about it.

On the other hand... People who have a prescription can last decades without it having any significant negative impact on their somatic or psychological health. A psychiatrist would argue that is because in the case of legit use opposed to abuse the amphetamine fills a void not apparent in the SUD patients. Still, when if you asked me I'd say frequency and duration matter a whole lot. Daily use is pretty standard for most stimulant users, so best make sure not to go on with it forever. I eventually had to quit because it was systematically ruining both my health, social life and bringing my academic progress to a halt. Let's just hope you are like me and recognize the warning signs (e.g. a lot more interpersonal conflicts, weight loss, ideas your environment looks at with great scepticism, inability to reflect on flaws in your behaviour to the point where you are blaming everyone but you for the shit youre into and tell yourself you need the speed because it makes you whole...). But hey, on the plus I acquired some MAD low level coding skills during these past years due to the cognitive enhancement. I suppose a lot of us experience comparable benefits, however miniscule they may be compared to the negs.

Oh god, I am ranting. That's what stimulants will do to you, see? See what a monster they have me turn into ? :D Not kidding. The worst part is that I like many others I become less and less able to focus my energy until the concept of free will seems like a mere trick of the brain, eventually becoming less real than the randomly ensueing flares of stimulant-imposed delusion. Only then seems the transformative loss of my personality whole, leaving me locked into a dirty sweaty stinking muddle-brained epitome of obsessive-compulsive procrastination spiked by episodes of enormous self harm (think 1000pokes with 70 in 2 nights and cleaning blood off the entire place for 12h straight).

Yeah, that's about what I am now, marking time by just wasting my life, struggling to stand my social ground against the personality mauling hail, made rather difficult due to what feels like blinding blizzard of anxious thoughts and ephemeral dreams I cling onto only to realize redemption was yet another illusion, still far from seizable however straining the latest endeavours I assigned myself to may have been, I am trying to move forward against this raging storm, now left a helpless captive in the cold grips of addiction, now engrossed in the bewildering delight, never hesitating to trade fleeting moments of sensual pleasure for the joy that life was meant to be, giving way to the stormy sea that life has come to drown me in, the chaos and confusion only eased by the brief relief of scarce encounters with but a few seconds of oblivion. Oblivious like parents who have turned away from those uncountable orphans whose sprouting youth, once an epitomy of coruscating life force promising a sanguine future as

comforting as warmth radiating from a bon fire when camping in Northern European on a windy rainy night, it is no more as of today, has faded into memory that feels as dim as the shadowy apparitions of erstwhile sharp minds belonging to the hopelessly insane they once seemed inseparably fused with, a memory now overcast by wailing lamentations of those whose deliverence to a fate of rejection has been reverbing as a haunting anguish of a unforgiven crime against an intense pain that since has grown to take on a gore-spitting vividness powerful enough to render vain every attempt of relief from the burden of regret from being those very special moments in time that nullify all other joy. Not only for a moment will the neglected grant relief, not only a singular unburdened aspiration may they take in however deep yearning for absconding into the serenity of life, the fate though once written for them yet lying occult to the faces of all creatures who are to cross time's path, concealed by dark stains of decisions long past and sealed by a mind since hypnotized into indulgence, by it's once unquenchable thirst for life, not hindered by a second thought soon afraid of his every move, bound to that illusion of freedom to fill his cup and shaken to the bone at the thought of resigning the safe-haven where his soul now lies chained as it vainly looks to cool it's burning desire, but instead is now an observer alien to himself, a stranger to life, not more than a torpid witness losing trust in his own senses at the unanticipated yet feared reality of grotesque imagery depicting the demise he is said to have brought onto himself, all the while aware of the complete lack of understanding the world would show for this most lonely end of his, trying to make sense of a world in which great ailing is met with great contempt, but more than anything he is wondering:

"My memory can impossibly play such tricks on me. I have long been very optimistic to live long and prosper and express be able to express all the love I have, I was certain to thrive on the beauty around me, willing to work towards finding a home where people could trust me with their life. But how then, looking at how things have turned out, could a person accuse my will of being free?"

And one last time he finds himself preparing for what had once made him so ecstatic that it gave off the illusion of changing his destiny, but has since long stopped haunting the what has become a barely

perceptible tingle from the

And one last time he finds himself preparing to blend out the long drawm out incomprehensible utterings of lingering spirits both from the presence as well as originating in days long past, the spirits that have throughout the decades grown to be strangers, when once we formed an inseparable unit that defined who I was. And then he wonders what things may be like if he hadn't been such a curious child, if he had not tried to find security inside the loving embrace of these few seconds, if he could look at the clock and attribute the same sense of meaning to it as my dog attributes meaning to a mirror. "Maybe that would've meant freedom?"

When he closed his eyes and saw his life flashing by, he came to a profound realization:

"The worst part was waking up to that god awful vague idea that I might have reason to actually have brought some shame onto myself. I knew feeling ashame the moment i open my eyes in the morning, for the variance in my moral standards (highly likely), having possibly put strain on friendships, most certainly on my health and i feel awfully weak for eliciting such the lack of control that could have held me back. But most of all, what I am really ashamed of is the beast that my

paroxysmal poetocarminolalia has turned into, leaving me unable to resist the untamable urge of haveing a regular chat or a forum post turn into an aimless endeavour during which direction is impossibloe to determine for myselfforget which sentence I am currently writing, often breaking off on the middle or not forming sentences at all writeup of some of the most try-hard yet laughingly bad pseudopoetically spiked stories the world has ever seen since self loathing tenth grade ghemo girls' self-pity laden diarrheous release of an entire week's emotional congestive emoccumulation.

I remember writing a 20 page letter to this completely drug and booze naive guy from Uni who I was gonna let in on my plan to bring a USB stick the next day for some filecopies, during another episode of verbal diarrhea I wrote one of my psychology teacher 4 pages... the list goes on and on. I might be bipolar but mania and stimulant psychosis can not be discriminated ver easily. Just saying, this is where you could end up or worse: pass by on the way to being an even more successful winner type of guy like me.

That was really hard to read, and barely made any sense lol, speeed post.
Edit: Lot of speed in germany.

 

[crOOk]

Yeah that was the idea, showing how scattered one's thoughts can become (mind u i have a bipolar 1 diagnosis). i made some contradictory statements and would say i evaluated it adequately after reading that little the excursion. It was unbelievably bad, much worse than expected during the ramble.

That shame has actually been a very common theme for me, but I suppose it's more due to the affective fluctuations than due to the stimulants. Excessive doses are highly likely to make me say things that I often worry about the next day. It's an awful feeling since I usually lose some of my ability to judge what is socially acceptable. It's a lot like drinking too much really which is actually worse, but with speed it had during those 1.5 years daily use turned to a chronic phenomenom. A bit like reverse paranoia with my brain being a threat instead of sensing in from environment.

EDIT: Dirt cheap, yeah. But in the NL or Poland it's even cheaper. like... A kg goes for 1.50-4.50 as far as I could gather. The variance in price is due to massive variance in purity. Speed ends up being just as expensive as cocaine for consumers who don't mind depending on those parasitic dope slinging greedy-ass niggers.

 

[AA357]

When used responsibly and in therapeutic doses, amphetamine is a very safe and effective stimulant. For performance enhancement and everyday purposes, I find it to be a hell of a lot easier on the heart than ephedrine. It feels a lot smoother and more pleasant than ephedrine... this does give it a higher abuse potential but also makes it a much better athletic PED and focus drug.
Like ephedrine and ritalin, regular amphetamine (not meth) is something I can use 2-3 times per week in sensible amounts without noticing any health problems or tolerance.

People seem to forget that amphetamine was once an everyday OTC stimulant that was used for the same purposes lesser stimulants such as ephedrine, phentermine and DMAA are used today. Nowadays, pharmaceutical amphetamines are marketed almost exclusively as psychiatric drugs.
Ritalin is also a very nice stimulant. It's neither as smooth nor as powerful as amphetamine, but it blows ephedrine out of the water. It's highly underrated.

 

[crOOk]

Definitely a lot safer than 3-F-Phenmetrazine. You are perfectly right. I was really rambling and saying a lot of stupid shit lol. The thing about amphetamine and all other 'drugs of abuse' (in my case that's all of them) that it is not an easy task to find a dosage they can stick to. Tolerance never was that bad for me, some low dosed acetylcysteine, magnesium and took care of it

This has been established already, but neither amphetamine and methylphenidate can should not go down the road of qualitatively face offs since they work through different mechanisms. Some react better to amphetamine and end up considering it stronger, for me and some others it's the opposite. I can inject 250mg rather pure amphetamine phosphate and have never ever felt a rush off it. Now when I only use 50mg rectally thgodawfule effects will blow my fucking socks off. Methylphenidate compares pretty well to cocaine in my experience and afaik they elicit very similar CNS effects (please confirm or not, im dead tired). I also experience such a godawful acute crash that almost outweighs the desired pleasurable effects. You can cross out the almost, I never cared for either and that says a lot lol. They aren't as good at straightening out my 'tree' of thought into something closer to a 'train/thread' to the same degree as amphetamine.

The cuts on German streets suck, but I used to extract it to yield phosphate salt.


EDIT:
-This might be the right place to briefly mention it despite being OT. I am showing rather strong signs of peripheral nerve damage, growing in intensity with each 3F-Phenmetrazine dose, being worst during the tail end, but lasting at least a week (haven't paused longer until now).
-Severe Amnesia seems to be a common side effect after days of consecutive use
-I also got my 4th Herpes zoster outbreak ever on it. The virus resides in nervous ganglia which is why it wouldn't seem irrational to make a run for it when toxic nervous damage occurs... And may or may not eventhough a thrombosis and today felt dirt sick off it for hours which has never happened.


-I rapidly developed a tolerance going from 150mg or so to 600mg max in single intravenous injections. This is about as high as doses of bluelighters go as of now which is why we probably haven't heard anymore reports other than the ones mentioning amnesia
-I am prone to very light inflammations of the locomotor system including all peripheral nerves of the upper extremeties. It is very typical for toxic paresthesia to hit those with an underlying disorder the hardest. Another reason for the lack of reports
-Especially the distal ends of peripheral nerve fibers are very sensitive to rapid changes in the dynamics of blood flow, which would sort of give us an idea what might be happening, despite it's parent compound seemingly having a wider safety margin

I for my part am convinved of it's neurotoxicity. This might not ring true for everyone, but it is more than obvious to me. Typical emphasis on unilateral symptomatic of one body part (left arm), numbness (negative symptom -> less transmission); occasionally I experience a rather painful pins and needles phenomenom; last but not least there have been very sharp pain attacks of rapid onset that only last an instant (altogether this crap has me take 3g Ibuprofen and 20-40mg Loperamid per day plus I cried like a little girl when I decompensated neither of which have I ever used for more than a couple of days before). I don't want to seem anxious, hypochondric or whatever, but I've had a chance to look for triggers for weeks and the only one I found were the IV doses of this substance. Still has me on thwe brink of vomiting, very nasty shit if one does it for the intense rush at doses over 250mg, not considering accumulation when redosing

Stay safe

 

[Ignot]

So today I only took 15mg of Amphetamine salts, instead of my usual 40mg. I have been taking 40mg everyday for 6 months.

This is what happens when I take 15mg or less

symptoms:

- Intense lethargy and wanting to lay down in bed
- body temperature going up
- felt very uncomfortable in my skin
- very lazy


I resisted and put the pill bottle away...I have about 16 pills left for the month...It was easier than I thought to not take more, but keeping this up for more than three or four days is VERY HARD.

It sucks because if someone with no tolerance takes 15mg amphetamine, they will be TWEAKED. I am embarrassed for taking so much everyday, and that's why I want to slow down on the dose.

It's not helping me study anymore...


Edit: I wish I can say something Crook, but I have never done any RC stim. They scare me TOO much. I wonder, if I feel lethargic on a therapeutic dose of Adderall, I can only imagine the pain of being on High doses of RC stims and street paste. That shit must be HORRIBLE.


edit: I hate whining, but ever since I started Amphetamine use, I have become a heavy hefeweizen drinker...I drink beer every night, even though I don't have a hard 'crash'.
And it also let's me drink twice as much as I normally can. Fuck. Another victim of neurotoxicity here

 

[AA357]

Definitely a lot safer than 3-F-Phenmetrazine. You are perfectly right. I was really rambling and saying a lot of stupid shit lol. The thing about amphetamine and all other 'drugs of abuse' (in my case that's all of them) that it is not an easy task to find a dosage they can stick to.

I think this depends on how euphoric you find it. Amphetamine and MPH feel nice but I hate being too wired up on stims so I never have problems sticking to therapeutic doses. Even d-meth (which is way more euphoric than d,l-amphetamine) isn't something I could enjoy in typical recreational doses... that's my idea of torture.

The most abusable drug I have ever tried - the one that tests my self-control more than any other - is Soma. Valium also requires a lot of discipline. I'm prone to stress and anger so I have a natural preference for downers over stimulants.

This has been established already, but neither amphetamine and methylphenidate can should not go down the road of qualitatively face offs since they work through different mechanisms.

I wouldn't say they are different enough not to warrant a comparison. Amphetamine's main mode of action is as a DA/NE releaser and methylphenidate's is as a DA/NE reuptake inhibitor... that right there actually sounds like a very interesting thing to compare.
Here's a hypothetical I sometimes wonder about: say you had 2 stimulants - X and Y. X works purely as a DA/NE releasing agent. Y works purely as DA/NE reuptake inhibitor. They both increase levels of DA+NE in the brain and body to exactly the same extent. Would the fact that they do this though different mechanisms cause them to feel different?

Methylphenidate compares pretty well to cocaine in my experience and afaik they elicit very similar CNS effects (please confirm or not, im dead tired).

Both are powerful reuptake inhibitors of dopamine and norepinephrine but don't forget that cocaine is also a powerful reuptake inhibitor of serotonin. Ritalin doesn't have this property... it does feel similar to cocaine but with something missing. Ritalin is sometimes called 'poor man's coke', but I think that label suits methamphetamine better.
D-meth feels more similar to cocaine than does ritalin IMO, but it's much stronger and longer lasting than either. It works as a releasing agent and reuptake inhibitor of all 3 monoamines.

It's a shame that amphetamine has caused you so many problems but it is well-known that neurotoxicity becomes a problem when you dose too high. Amphetamine is widely considered to be non-neurotoxic at therapeutic levels (unlike meth, which is notably neurotoxic at all doses). Stimulants are very useful drugs but they are extremely hard on the body when you take things too far.

 

[crOOk]

I wouldn't say they are different enough not to warrant a comparison. Amphetamine's main mode of action is as a DA/NE releaser and methylphenidate's is as a DA/NE reuptake inhibitor.

Not much time because I have to take my daughter to bed, but I want to throw this out there real quick. Not sure how familiar you are with amphetamine's dynamics, but it's a lot more complex. Reuptake inhibition, release, trace amine r's, mMat2... Tons of binding sites. I only said "qualitative differences" for lack of a better term, I just meant to say none is objectively better or more intense than the other. Hopefully I remember to reply tomorrow. I love pretty much any substance, as long as I cam take it to extremes. Dissociatives, opiates and stimulants though... Shit.

 

[PsychedelicWizard]

This whole thread is nonsense. Been using amphetamines for years and still have pleasurable effects and get calmed down. Just shows the power of the mind though, and how you can re-wire your neurological chemistry just with belief, even with a drug in your system, the belief can be more powerful.

 

[crOOk]

This whole thread is nonsense. Been using amphetamines for years and still have pleasurable effects and get calmed down. Just shows the power of the mind though, and how you can re-wire your neurological chemistry just with belief, even with a drug in your system, the belief can be more powerful.

Yes, the power of the mind, true that. Like you managed to tell yourself you're not an arrogant condescending asshole there. I applaud you!

In case you did not read the thread, this is about problems resulting from abusing amphetamine, right? It has been said numerous times that most people are just fine using amphetamine at therapeutical doses for decades. It's also makes a huge difference whether you have been diagnosed with ADHD or (like me) with Bipolar Disorder Type 1. For the former the it's use has been deemed beneficial by the medical community, while the latter will become psychotic on it. You are saying it calms you down, it makes me batshit. Or should I say: I imagine to become delusional, just like I imagined amphetamine to have wreaked havoc on my family life and academic progress?

But who am I telling this, Grandmaster Speed has apparently seen it all. If you are still able to reflect, think long and hard about the irony in your statement about the power of belief. Ignorance is just so much less fragile than belief.

 

[swisscurrie]

It is excellent that this post emphasizes the dangers of amphetamine use but there is one important thing that I think is missing.

The length of time you manage to stay in the first few stages before moving to the nastier later stages is largely depdendent on your dosing patterns. Basically this comes done to sensible use vs careless misuse. There is strong animal and human evidence that if you start off your use at high doses you will very quickly fry your brains dopaminergic neurons. So the worst possible way to use amphetamine is to start off at a high dose for euphoric effects. If you during your first times of use you take a ridiculous amount like 50 or 70mg of adderall or dexedrine you will basically fry your brains dopamine neurons and pass through all of those stages pretty quickly. You will inflict permanent brain damage. If you gradually increase your dose at weekly intervals up to a maximum of around 30mg a day and then stay on that dose you will not face issues related to neurotoxicity. So if for the first week you start at 5 to 10mg a day, and then increase by 5mg each week up to a maxiumum of 30mg a day you wont get any brain damaging or pass through the nasty later stages. You will pass through the first stages mentioned but will l probably not pass further than the third stage.

Increasing your dose of dexedrine beyond around 20 to 30mg a day isnt productive as you will build tolerance to that dose eventually aswell and in the end it will work no better than 20 or 30mg did. If you were to take a single 5mg dexedrine tablet just when you need a subtle boost, so no more than twice a week, you willl likely be able to experience the pro social and mild euphoria inducing effects over a long period of time (even for years on end).

Even if you graudally escalate your dose, you still may experience effects from the changes in your brain that occur as a results of amphetamine sensitization. In animals (primates and rats) behavioural sensitization to amphetamine is used to create schizophrenic like changes in behaviour and brain function. Amphetamine sensization has also been shown to produce profound cognitive impairment in primates. So it may be better to use alternative stimulants which do not have any of these risks, such as ritalin and Focalin, Methylphenidate does not really cause a tolerance in the same way high doses of amphetamine do so could be considered a better long term option. Even if you overdose on Ritalin or Focalin you will not suffer any neurotoxicity. I feel Focalin is the best option of all major ADHD stimlants because it has equal effectiveness to adderall for ADHD and permanent neurotoxicity and tolerance does not result from its use. Another issue is that many people have difficulty switchting from amphetamine to methlylphenidate use. It has been proven in studies in humans that amphetamine abusers have an almost completely blunted response to ritalin. As they get either no effect or only side effects and no stimulation from the ritalin they tend to switch back to amphetamine which only worsens their problems.

I feel that amphetamines are probably the single most dangerous class of drugs to abuse. They can fry your brain in a short amount of time if used unwisely. So if you are going to use amphetamines, do not dose in a way that induces euphoria. The best way is to use them in low dosages as a tool. If you want to experience euphoria avoid amphetamines and stick to other classes of drugs that lack neurotoxic potential.

 

[Ozle]

I never experienced phases 1 or 2, and I never felt it motivated me to do things or helped me learn anything; rather it amplified my anxiety, made me over-focus on things the were worrying me, and made me lose interest in anything else, including what I was supposed to be learning (I also got the feeling it messed with my memory and made it more difficult for me to retain anything). :/

 

[doppelgänger1]

Anybody got experience often can you use amphetamine in small doses (25-50mg insufflated) without developing massive tolerance?
Daily apparently doesn't seem to work.

 

[swisscurrie]

No more than once every two weeks and you shouldnt build up much of a tolerance. Thats for 25mg, 50mg is too much IMO. Also taking it orally would probably be healthier.

 

[MocCozmiK]

I am prescribed 30mg adderall IR X 3 daily. I only take 60mg tho. I actually take the 60 in the morning and don't take anymore thru out the day. I take many multivitamins and a few neuroprotective drugs. I have been on adderal now for 10 years. I take drug holidays (breaks) every 4 months or so. It doesn't do anything to Lower tolerance.
I haven't noticed any permanent brain damage I am sure there is some tho. I function fine. I started playing tennis about 5 years ago and got super into it. And try to play at least 5 times a week. So maybe the exercise helps. Seems like since I started playing serious tennis, my body started to become more balanced and feel more healthy.
When I have taken breaks from the adderall, I do it on the weekend and make sure I have nothing else to do, because I literally will sleep for 3 days straight, I am lethargic and have no coordination when I do get up to get something to eat or go to the bathroom. It's really crazy. After the break is over, it takes about 12 hours to feel 'right' again. I hate the adderall. But to afraid to switch to anything that is less toxic like methylphenidate.

 

[Ignot]

I am prescribed 30mg adderall IR X 3 daily. I only take 60mg tho. I actually take the 60 in the morning and don't take anymore thru out the day. I take many multivitamins and a few neuroprotective drugs. I have been on adderal now for 10 years. I take drug holidays (breaks) every 4 months or so. It doesn't do anything to Lower tolerance.
I haven't noticed any permanent brain damage I am sure there is some tho. I function fine. I started playing tennis about 5 years ago and got super into it. And try to play at least 5 times a week. So maybe the exercise helps. Seems like since I started playing serious tennis, my body started to become more balanced and feel more healthy.
When I have taken breaks from the adderall, I do it on the weekend and make sure I have nothing else to do, because I literally will sleep for 3 days straight, I am lethargic and have no coordination when I do get up to get something to eat or go to the bathroom. It's really crazy. After the break is over, it takes about 12 hours to feel 'right' again. I hate the adderall. But to afraid to switch to anything that is less toxic like methylphenidate.

So you have been taking 60mg doses in the morning for years? Interesting. I noticed that amphetamines are better in one dose, than spaced out, something about taking the second IR hours later after the initial dose, causes weird effects.

 

[OneEyedRonnie]

Excellent post! I abused d-amp for about 5 or 6 years and I can definitely relate to these stages. I knew it was time to quit when I started thinking in a Russian accent.