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Thread: Phenobarbital vs. Benzo's

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    Phenobarbital vs. Benzo's 
    #1
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    I would like to know the similarity, and differences between the two.
    I know very little about Phenobarbital but know a fair amount about benzo's.
    I want to know the pro's and con's of each different drug. Any input would be appreciated, Thank you BL in advance.
     

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    #2
    The difference is that phenobarbital sucks. I love barbs, but pheno literally has no recreational potential unless you find sleeping particularly euphoric. Secobarbital, pentobarbital, awesome drugs. But pheno will do nothing but make one drowsy, not unlike taking a couple Benadryl. There's a reason pheno's so available compared to other barbs...
     

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    #3
    Bluelighter pallidamors's Avatar
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    If you use the search engine, and maybe google "barbiturate" to get some general info on the drugs (most barbs feel pretty similar I think, at least the few I've tried, just like how most benzos have very similar effects), you could probably come up with your own list.

    The main difference that I will state is that phenobarbital is much more dangerous than any benzo. This is because it is possible to overdose on phenobarbital even if it is not combined with another drug. The LD50 for animals is given at 165-200 mg/kg^-1, which I think yields a lethal dose of 1200-1400 mg for a 150 pound (or 68 kg) individual, although my math may well be off...if someone better at numbers can correct me please feel free.

    Benzos, on the other hand, are nearly impossible to overdose on IF AND ONLY IF they are NOT combined with other drugs; mixing benzos with opiates, alcohol, and other CNS depressants make overdose an incredibly simple phenomenon.

    I think this should maybe be moved to BDD since its not exactly a specific question on a single drug, plus I am thinking this topic may have been covered in the past.
     

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    #4
    Bump! experiences anyone? ualways thought it wasnt "bad". Always just hear from people who dont take alot, how is it in much higher doses, nice sedation? whats the feeling like, idc if it isn't as good as valium, xannies , etc which i already realize. But is it alright? . I always see a few who love it
     

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    #5
    Bluelighter pr0d1gy's Avatar
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    Benzos are much better IMO, phenobarb will just knock you out completely and if it doesn't you won't remember wtf you did on it. Not you could do much but be a zombie on it though
     

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    #6
    600mg seems to be relaxing(taken over the course of 8 hours),sedating( not too tiring), Definately posses's hypnotic properties but nothing like a moderate dose of xanax,lorazepam etc. Alot m ore clear headed than benzos . always figured pheno would feel heavier . Surprising....Barbs are an interest atm.

    Would a benzo tolerance affect a barb tolerance? May seem like a stupid ? but have no idea. the ld50 is somewhere around 1300mg or something? that can't seem right? Benzos and low dose of phenobarbital taken together can definately slurr you out bad. I don't want to set myself up here , but is this barb scare a bit over rated? alone it seems it won't wreck you like bennies, maybe its deceiving the user
    Last edited by Shnargoff; 06-09-2009 at 10:21.
     

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    #7
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    What's a lethal dose of pheno? I only have like 4 68mg pills, and 1 clonazepam 1mg. If taken together will I first of all be okay, and second of all feel a buzz. Will pheno synergize well with the clonazepam?
     

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    #8
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    i agree phenobarbital is boring and even uncomfortable by itself, and it lasts a couple of days. expect to feel gloomy and dysphoria. i have mixed pheno (90mg) with tramadol (600 mg) valium, (12mg), and dozy (25 mg) (i know dangerous). i don't vouch for this, but i will share that it feels like ecstasy and like i am walking on air. i do avoid sleep though and try to stay alert fearing the synergy effect. i do have high tolerance to all three, especially trams, but not phenobarbital. i have slept and woke up. it was such a comfortable sleep like ambien but longer. but again, this is playing with fire. not much experience reports on mixing pheno and benzos. anyone experience this?
     

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    #9
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    Komatose : i believe phenobarbital lethal dose depends, but it can be fatal as low as 1 gram. the most i took with valium in my system was 240 mg. it was uncomfortable and told myself not to do a high dose like this again. yes, there is a synergetic effect when mixed with a benzo, but the lethal dose may be even lower for pheno ... so be careful. i have mixed klonopin with phenobarbital, but just found it sedating without any euphoria. i believe it was more comfortable perhaps because the dose was modest and the klonopin made it smoother. i am even paranoid taking less than 100 mg of pheno -- 60 mg or less i am very comfortable and enjoy without the lingering thought i may die. for christ sake, people use phenobarbital to commit suicide (e.g. Heaven's Gate Cult), although clearly other rare barbiturates are more dangerous or effective with suicide if desired. i believe tramadol and pheno is an unbelievable combination. its a pseudo-MDMA high (tramadol, albeit not for everyone ... but i'm lucky i never get nausea on high doses). in addition, the pheno prevents seizures. but again, this is risky business mixing. even if death isn't a strong possibility, you may be gambling with your kidneys and liver. be careful with ANY barbs, including the boring phenobarbital. be safe and happy trippin
    Last edited by jimjones; 25-09-2009 at 10:54.
     

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    #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shnargoff View Post
    600mg seems to be relaxing(taken over the course of 8 hours),sedating( not too tiring), Definately posses's hypnotic properties but nothing like a moderate dose of xanax,lorazepam etc. Alot m ore clear headed than benzos . always figured pheno would feel heavier . Surprising....Barbs are an interest atm.

    Would a benzo tolerance affect a barb tolerance? May seem like a stupid ? but have no idea. the ld50 is somewhere around 1300mg or something? that can't seem right? Benzos and low dose of phenobarbital taken together can definately slurr you out bad. I don't want to set myself up here , but is this barb scare a bit over rated? alone it seems it won't wreck you like bennies, maybe its deceiving the user
    interesting. i guess i am sensitive. my benzo tolerance is very high (e.g. 120 mg of valium, 8 mg of xanax, etc.) of course i am pretty far gone, but not like passed out the entire time. fragments are only remembered. i figure 40 mg of valium is a maximum comfortable dose where i can function practically normally, or so i think in my head. i think its tolerance independent because pheno works on different receptors on GABA. hence, tapering off benzo using phenobarbital is no longer recommended -- in fact, it is considered barbaric. i did hear barbs are cross tolerant with a benzo like midazolam. i found the pills very boring taking up to 120 mg within 30 minutes. i could swear that i'm getting difficulty breathing spells though when i mix pheno with benzos and trams, and even over-the-counter sleeping pills. it could be the profound poly effect. 600 mg of pheno is way too much for me and i wouldn't do this because i would be so uncomfortable. i can forget working or even walking or talking coherently for awhile. more like watching tv like a zombie for 5 days with major depression. yup, i get that heavy feeling too which does suck IMO. good to hear feedback on phenobarbital as i have a general fascination with barbiturates. not sure why?
     

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    #11
    Bluelighter AfterGlow's Avatar
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    As a kid, I used to take a med called Quadrinal for asthma. It contained theophylline, ephedrine, potassium iodide and phenobarital.

    The phenobarbital was part of that concoction to calm down the shakes you'd get from the combination of theophylline and ephedrine, both strong CNS stimulants.

    It felt like a screwy speedball and left you drained.
     

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    #12
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    AfterGlow : did you ever have panic attacks? did you feel heart pains? that combo (regardless of dosage) seems crazy. and this was for helping asthma? was it the spray, or was it pills? sorry, i don't know much about asthma except for some people that have the condition. interesting to hear a barbiturate is assisting with breathing, or maybe its for the "shakes" -- i can understand that
     

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    #13
    Bluelighter AfterGlow's Avatar
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    Yes, I used to suffer from awful panic attacks. I'd go into crazy temper tantrums too.

    Back then, they didn't have all of the corticosteroids for treating asthma. So strong stimulants were used for their ability to relax smooth muscle and open up airways.

    Quadrinal was a pink horrible tasting liquid. The pheno in it was not to help the asthma. It was to help with the terrible side effects of the strong stimulants.
     

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    #14
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    well glad to hear they came out with something more stable. stimulants and downers can trick your heart
     

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    #15
    Bluelighter chuchu's Avatar
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    The (shitty)thing about phenobarb is that it has a LONG half life its easy for you not to feel any effect immediately and decide to redose. Big mistake esp if you combine with other substance. IMO short acting barbs are better if not safer Oh and the above info is from personal exp a phenobarb and codeine binge that almost turned fatal.
     

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    #16
    Bluelighter mukant666's Avatar
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    I took phenobarbital for Heroin w/d's, all it helped for was shakes and sleep but other then that it's worthless.
     

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    #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuchu View Post
    The (shitty)thing about phenobarb is that it has a LONG half life its easy for you not to feel any effect immediately and decide to redose. Big mistake esp if you combine with other substance. IMO short acting barbs are better if not safer Oh and the above info is from personal exp a phenobarb and codeine binge that almost turned fatal.
    i emphatically agree. the phenobarbital half-life carries over and that can accumulate shortly to a potential overdose. knowledgeable warning!
     

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    #18
    Bluelighter matterofperception's Avatar
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    Iv'e done phenobarbitol a handful of times and benzos a crapload. I MUCH prefer just about any benzo to phenobarb. Phenobarb gets a bad name because you have to take a ton to feel anything, and then your only high is feeling medium level drunk for 10 minutes then falling asleep. IMO phenobarb is pretty worthless as far as recreation goes.
     

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    #19
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    chuchu : how much was your binge? did you take small amounts at a time? how much phenobarbital total (approx mg)?
     

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    #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by matterofperception View Post
    Iv'e done phenobarbitol a handful of times and benzos a crapload. I MUCH prefer just about any benzo to phenobarb. Phenobarb gets a bad name because you have to take a ton to feel anything, and then your only high is feeling medium level drunk for 10 minutes then falling asleep. IMO phenobarb is pretty worthless as far as recreation goes.
    yup, and dangerous too. that's why they give to dogs. it was just interesting to note that mixing pheno can produce a quality high, but the risk is probably not worth it. do you know how much pheno can accumulate in your system? ex. if you take 120 mg pheno for three days w/ other substances (benzos, opiates in fairly high doses) -- are you in serious danger?
     

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    #21
    Bluelighter Moonmixer's Avatar
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    Barbs are well known as very dangerous drugs. I'm too tired to elaborate or post links, but I'm not speaking from personal experience here. Look it up.
     

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    #22
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    yeah, i research barbs like crazy as i am just fascinated by them. maybe i have an exotic thing for rare items or things extinct. obviously, pentobarbital is used to euthanize dogs. i know the dangers and the LD50 (Median Lethal Dose) for all barbs, but i was curious if this medicine accumulates where it pick right up after you redose -- it is like continuing to add to the milligrams you took from 3 days ago. because of the long half-life, i do fear this situation versus alcohol where a person get more and more sober every passing hour. also, the LD50 drops when mixing with other CNS depressants
     

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    #23
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    I hear that pheno stops working for sleep after 2 weeks. think i read that on wiki or something. And from my experiences it did stop working after a while. It worked great for a short period, then just stopped putting me to sleep. You think i just need to take more?
     

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    #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Komatose View Post
    I hear that pheno stops working for sleep after 2 weeks. think i read that on wiki or something. And from my experiences it did stop working after a while. It worked great for a short period, then just stopped putting me to sleep. You think i just need to take more?
    I agree because I have a benzo tolerance. I really don't know your tolerance, if any. But this would solidify exactly what you pointed out. Pheno works inconsistently for me -- one night I cannot sleep and then the next day, I over sleep. But yes, after a few days tolerance sets in and one must be careful. Not just because it is a barbiturate [albeit weak recreationally], but since this stuff is hard to come by unless you order from other countries [or maybe you have dog with seizures], this is something you definitely don't want to get a habit for. I think you need to wean yourself off. If early, cut each day by 50% to be safe. If you've been taking pheno for awhile, I am not the right person to be asking. I would say withdrawal is worse than benzo and alcoholism withdrawal.
     

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    #25
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    I have a benzo habit, currently have 50 xanny bars. only a couple pheno's for when i stop the benzo's. Is it okay to mix pheno with benzo's (i would say no) but i want someone else input. I also do heroin everyday, and the days i dont do H i do suboxone. Phenobarbital is one of the craziest drugs i have come across. It's just such a mystery.
     

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