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Thread: Modafinil vs Armodafinil

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    Modafinil vs Armodafinil 
    #1
    Sorry this is kind of long, but I could really use the help so please bear with me.
    I'm new to the forum, this is my first thread. Ok, i have been prescribed Adderall (30mg xr) for about the past 7 months. I have talked to people that take it everyday and i've heard that you build a tolerance to it, almost to the point where it's like not even taking it. To try to prevent this, i only take it 3 days a week ,MAYBE 4 but not usually. My problem is, the in between days i am extremely tired, absolutely NOT motivated to get up and do anything, and i have an insane appetite. This isn't because of the drug, I've always been that way, for instance, i used to only drink coffee 3 days a week before my big workouts, and i experienced the same thing on my off days. So i have been working with my doc to try to find something to take on the alternate days that will work as close to the adderall without working the same way (i.e. the same systems in the brain) so i won't build any kind of tolerance. We've tried wellbutrin, as well as a few other anti-depressants and it did absolutely nothing. SO, doing research i found modafinil and i mentioned it to her. She knew of it and said it might do the trick so she wrote me a script, but she actually wrote me one for armodafinil. I have found that it is a enantiomer of modafinil, but haven't read about any specific differences. I've been taking it for a week, first 2 days i stuck to the 150mg dose then started taking one and a half tablets (225mg) and i still find myself fatigued, unmotivated, and still very hungry. So finally, my question is: does anybody have any advise or perspective on how, if at all, these two are different? Or does anyone have any suggestions on another stimulant type drug that would work as similarly to the adderall without contributing to a tolerance? Any advise would be greatly appreciated. Feel free to email me as well. Thank you.
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    #2
    I'm almost certain the drug known as "Modafinil" (Provigil, Modalert, etc.) is a racemic micture of the two enantiomers (i.e. 1/2 of each mirror molecule, including the pure armodafinil). Just saying so you're aware.

    From experience, I can say there isn't much of a difference between the two insofar as promoting wakefulness and its (limited) usefulness as a raw stimulant (in the gold-standard amphetamine sense).


    You can also use magnesium/memantine (the latter being purchasable online) to help reverse amphetamine tolerance. Make sure not to get magnesium oxide due to pathetic bioavailability.
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    #3
    I've actually heard about supplementing magnesium to prevent/reduce amphetamine tolerance. I actually started taking it daily but stopped because i didn't think it was working. Although, i never read specifically about the magnesium oxide being what you DON'T want, and reading your reply, i looked at what i had and sure enough, that's what it was. So, do you have any experience/know anyone who has experience taking adderall (or any amphetamine) while supplementing magnesium?
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    #4
    NMDA antagonism has been shown to be a means of amphetamine tolerance reduction. Magnesium definitely has NMDA antagonist properties, but the extent to which this reverses tolerance is hard to determine. Think about it: anyone who tests this can only assess the efficacy subjectively. You can't quantify tolerance. And even to assess it subjectively, one would have to use amphetamines multiple times, therefore there are other tolerance variables compounding.

    To make a long story short: I don't know, but it's definitely worth a shot.
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    #5
    Bluelighter xxl's Avatar
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    As pointed out above, Armodafinil is only an isomer. You can regard it as a "purified" Modafinil. Whenever the inactive isomer is harmless (which should be the case in Modafinil), there's no medical advantage in swallowing the isolated active isomer. The advantage is a commercial one for pharm companies who can get a patent + FDA approval for the purified isomer, in a way passing a know drug as a new drug.

    There's also Armodafinil. This one is a precursor of Modafinil, so its difference with respect to Modafinil is real. It takes longer to act and its interaction with other drugs may differ.

    If these drugs don't work for you you might want to try DHEA. Check what people have to say about DHEA first.
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    #6
    So you think if i did get the actual modafinil instead of armodafinil it might work better? I don't know much about DHEA but i've heard about it and i haven't heard anything about it that sounds like it's what i'm looking for.
    And also Moredopamine, i would love if that worked but i am nervous that it wouldn't and then i'd have a tolerance. And also it's weird, today i took the armodafinil (one and a half tablets=225mg) and i feel like it's working now. I actually feel motivated, not tired, and i'm not hungry. It's really weird because the last time i took it was saturday and it didnt seem to work at all. And i'm 99% sure it's not a coincidence because i never feel like this on my own. Anyone have any ideas about any other drugs that would give me what i'm looking for?
    Last edited by DJCRLS; 01-09-2009 at 01:15.
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    #7
    Bluelighter xxl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJCRLS View Post
    today i took the armodafinil (one and a half tablets=225mg) and i feel like it's working now. I actually feel motivated, not tired, and i'm not hungry. It's really weird because the last time i took it was saturday and it didnt seem to work at all.
    225 mg of armodafinil is the same as 450 mg Modafinil since Armodafinil is the "active hafl" of Modafinil. That's a lot of "Modafinil". I feel the effect of 100 mg Modafinil. Of course it depends what you expect. If you expect a real buzz, you won't get one from these drugs.
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    #8
    Right, well I already knew that. I wasn't expecting a lot of the euphoric, INSANE energy that adderall gives. But from the little effectiveness i have felt i really think the 250mg of the armodafinil would be better, but since the modafinil is the active one, sounds like that would be better.
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    #9
    Bluelighter xxl's Avatar
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    And yes, if you want this drug to work for you a long time, start low, don't increase the dose uneccessarily and don't use it too often. I took 100mg Modafinil 3x a week and after three months the effect was already dwindling.
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    #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJCRLS View Post
    So you think if i did get the actual modafinil instead of armodafinil it might work better?
    No the armodafinil is more potent on a mg basis but same effect.
    I think armodafinil/modafinil is your best shot.
    Some people find armodafinil/modafinil works better after taking it for a few days....

    I would suggest you try alternating the mod with the adderall by taking each one for a period of say two weeks or more and see how that works.....

    As you switch from the adderall to the mod you may feel less energetic for a couple of days but i suspect your energy may improve after that.

    Also how are you taking your dose, as for me i take 100mg (modafinil) mornings and then 50 mg at lunch as it seems to maintain the inital dose (even though modafinil is suppose to have a half life of 12 hours).

    Modafinil is a great drug i like it over amphetamines as it is alot easier on your system and doesn't raise the heart rate to the same extent as amphetamines.

    I dont know why dhea is mentioned here and although nmda antagonists do reduce tolerance to a lot of drugs i would not recommend using them as they could cause hallucinations and memory impairment in rare cases and their effect might only be minimal in regards to tolerance.
    Last edited by daveblacktown; 04-09-2009 at 14:45. Reason: i wanted to say more
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    #11
    Well what I've been doing is taking the adderall (30mg xr) 3 times a week and taking the armodafinil the 4 in between days, so it's usually wednesday friday sunday on the adderall and then monday tuesday thursday saturday on the armodafinil. I was given the 150mg and i stuck to that for a few days, now i've been taking one and a half and i just take it in the morning. I also found that w/ the adderall, it is best effective on an empty stomach and i think it works the same w/ the armodafinil so i've been doing that. Usually i wait 2 hours ormore to eat after i take it. Like i said, i'd like to get the 250mg armodafinil OR switch to the modafinil. whichever would be best. But i'm weary of taking the addy for a week or 2 strait then the modafinil for the same time strait.

    Also, I know armodafinil/modafinil work at least similarly to adderall (amphetamines) and i just wanted to know, if anyone knows, whether or not alternating these two every other day, taking one or the other EVERY day would end up building a tolerance? I don't know the specifics but i'm thinking if both drugs work on the same things in the brain that taking one or another every day will build a tolerance to both of them. Obviously as stated before this is what i'm trying to avoid at all costs
    Last edited by DJCRLS; 05-09-2009 at 01:11.
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    #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJCRLS View Post
    Obviously as stated before this is what i'm trying to avoid at all costs
    Sorry but some tolerance is inevitable.

    Because receptors take awhile to readjust, a longer time off each drug may help as it does with tolerance to the anorexic effect of amphetamines.
    Signs of tolerance were present at 16 but not 20 days after withdrawal. http://www.springerlink.com/content/jx671878066g4m21/

    The appetite reducing effects of amphetamines build rapidly, but less to the cns stimulation, infact you can become sensitized.
    http://www.springerlink.com/content/k662818326278273/

    As said before nmda antagonists reverse tolerance to amphetamine (mk-801 used in this one).
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2671566

    Difference modafinil/amphetamine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil
    Modafinil also elevates hypothalamic histamine levels, leading some researchers to consider modafinil a "wakefulness promoting agent" rather than a classic amphetamine-like stimulant.
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    #13
    I found this thread looking up the differences between Modafinil and Armodafinil. I don't think it should be deleted.
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    #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    As pointed out above, Armodafinil is only an isomer. You can regard it as a "purified" Modafinil. Whenever the inactive isomer is harmless (which should be the case in Modafinil), there's no medical advantage in swallowing the isolated active isomer. The advantage is a commercial one for pharm companies who can get a patent + FDA approval for the purified isomer, in a way passing a know drug as a new drug.

    There's also Armodafinil. This one is a precursor of Modafinil, so its difference with respect to Modafinil is real. It takes longer to act and its interaction with other drugs may differ.

    If these drugs don't work for you you might want to try DHEA. Check what people have to say about DHEA first.
    I hope you are referring to adrafinil (commonly available online) as the precursor to modafinil and you don't mean that armodafinil is the precursor to modafinil and "it takes longer to act..."

    From first-hand experience with adrafinil, the experience is completely different when compared with modafinil and/or armodafinil. It's not that adrafinil takes longer necessarily (although it does by a little bit), it is harder to notice until you notice it. Adding caffeine to the mixture (about 30-45 minutes after ingestion) takes the experience in the right direction and really amplifies the effects of adrafinil. Adrafinil is a non-prescription drug, commonly sold as "Olmifon" 300mg tablets. the addition of other nootropics/cognitive enhancers also really adds to the effects. pretty much same side effect profile as modafinil/armodafinil, maybe makes you pee smell weird sooner than with modafinil (waste products of converting adrafinil to modafinil)

    No script necessary, legal in the US, much cheaper for more or less the same effect. You just need to take 2 or 3 a day, so maybe costs even out, I'm not sure. And none of them come close to even matching adderall or other amphetamines for concentration and such.
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