"Legal" RC synthetic opiods?

[daddysgone]

I pretty much agree but kratom, tramadol and poppy pods are all available on-line already. There was a poppy pod tea death of a young man just in the last few days.

True, but all 3 substances you mentioned, are very difficult to fatally OD on.
Kratom is, for all intents and purposes, impossible to OD on.
Tramadol- will cause seizures at high doses, but in terms of an actual opiate OD, this too would prove difficult.
Poppy pods- Of the 3 you mention, I think this one poses the most serious thread of OD. Even with poppy pods, I'd argue you'd have to try pretty hard to fatally overdose. Im aware of the recent pod tea overdose you mention, but if you recall, this death was almost certainly due to several CNS depressants taken concurrently. I suppose this detail isn't a great argument, because I believe that MOST opiate overdoses are also due to polydrug interaction.

 

[fastandbulbous]

^ That wouldn't be the case if ultra potent opioid drugs started to appear on the RC market - it'd be more like what happened with the fentanyl derivatives started to appear as designer smack

 

[MurphyClox]

Has etonitazene been called the most euphoric/addictive by users? The only report I know of is the guy who synthed some himself and used a spray bottle, then committed suicide.

I heared something similar. Could somebody please provide a link to the mentioned report or whatever it is. Would love to read about this strange case in further detail.

Thx!

- Murphy

 

[Quanta]

True, but all 3 substances you mentioned, are very difficult to fatally OD on.
Kratom is, for all intents and purposes, impossible to OD on.
Tramadol- will cause seizures at high doses, but in terms of an actual opiate OD, this too would prove difficult.
Poppy pods- Of the 3 you mention, I think this one poses the most serious thread of OD. Even with poppy pods, I'd argue you'd have to try pretty hard to fatally overdose. Im aware of the recent pod tea overdose you mention, but if you recall, this death was almost certainly due to several CNS depressants taken concurrently. I suppose this detail isn't a great argument, because I believe that MOST opiate overdoses are also due to polydrug interaction.

True, point taken. It is more the appearance of ultra-potent opiods on the RC market that likely spells disaster.

 

[Tchort]

I heared something similar. Could somebody please provide a link to the mentioned report or whatever it is. Would love to read about this strange case in further detail.

Thx!

- Murphy

I'd love to see this too.

Individual variance is huge. James Ellroy blew his sanity compulsively eating Propylhexedrine in the early '70s. This doesn't make Propylhexedrine an extremely addictive compound.

although etonitazene is the most potent and apparently the most euphoric/addictive opioid yet discovered according to those who've tried it),

I find this highly suspect. The same has been said of Ketobemidone, Dextromoramide, Meperidine (no joke, I have a textbook on my shelf that lists Demerol as the most euphoric opioid).

There are a lot of reasons that Diamorphine is the main illicit opioid of choice around the world. It would be much, much more cost effective to simply extract and mildly purify Morphine and sell it as Heroin. Or use designer Fentanyls, or Etorphines, or any number of other chemical families of opioids to replace Diamorphine.

The unique profile of the Heroin class (Nicomorphine, etc) makes it, I think, without a doubt the most euphoric and pleasurable opioids ever created. The few minor studies done on 'Likability' among addicts seems to bear this out.

Pockets of users became obsessed with particular semi and full synthetics (case in point: the Piritramide addicts who use nothing else).

 

[amanitadine]

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20030603/ai_n11394964/ ........pretty generic but gives you some names, places to find more....

 

[daddysgone]

Im always shocked at studies that seem to indicate that even the most experienced of opioid users, are unable to distinguish the difference between something like an IV administration of heroin, and an IV administration of buprenorphine (I have actually seen a study that makes this claim regarding these 2 substances). I have to wonder how these researchers are getting this information, because clearly, NO ONE would confuse a shot of bupe for a shot of heroin.

 

[StaffWriter]

Damn, I thought all opioid RC analogues were considered illegal in the US.

 

[evolutionofthemind]

I suppose this detail isn't a great argument, because I believe that MOST opiate overdoses are also due to polydrug interaction.

I concur..

 

[Tchort]

Im always shocked at studies that seem to indicate that even the most experienced of opioid users, are unable to distinguish the difference between something like an IV administration of heroin, and an IV administration of buprenorphine (I have actually seen a study that makes this claim regarding these 2 substances). I have to wonder how these researchers are getting this information, because clearly, NO ONE would confuse a shot of bupe for a shot of heroin.

I think a blind taste test/Pepsi challenge would be pretty difficult. Especially if you are not factoring in duration of effects, severity of side effects over all, etc. and only by how you feel within the first several minutes after an IV injection.

Most opioids provide analagous euphoria and side effects. I mean, these studies are with former addicts who are currently clean (at least the one involving the IV Bupe being confused with IV Heroin, and the one I'm thinking of about which drugs addicts prefer and Morphine & Heroin beat a half dozen semi and full synthetics).

I think it's entirely plausible that a non-dependant, former addict could confuse any opioid given to them for any other.

Before becoming addicted and dependant, I found Buprenorphine to feel almost identical to Oxycodone (mildly stimulating, etc). Bupe also has a very large Bupe-only addict base in many parts of Europe and Asia, to the point where Heroin has been completely pushed out of the market by Subutex.

 

[daddysgone]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I see your point, and agree for the most part.

BUT- when it comes to the bupe/heroin "pepsi challenge", I am truly baffled. For anyone that has IV'd bupe, you are aware that there is absolutely no rush, and you don't feel any sort of opioid effect for at LEAST several minutes. Compare this to the instantaneous, full body handjob sensation, that results from IV heroin.... How could anyone possibly confuse the two?

 

[fastandbulbous]

There are a lot of reasons that Diamorphine is the main illicit opioid of choice around the world.

Because you can get very close to it by letting a plant do the hard work (and historical considerations seeing synthetic organic chemistry is a young'in compared with agriculture) - that's it I'm afraid

 

[amanitadine]

^ +1. exactly. and because there is always an impoverished war torn country of desperates willing to do the ridiculous amount of manual labor involved due to SOME countries foreign policies for the last 50 years, whilst simultaneously providing said countries necessary "enemies"... i am sure many have realized the profit potential of say, ohmfentanyl etc, but there are deeper footholds at play. But before I digress into some paranoid rant and push this thread further from ADD appropriate discussion i will hold my tongue..

 

[Lost and Confused]

I think a blind taste test/Pepsi challenge would be pretty difficult. Especially if you are not factoring in duration of effects, severity of side effects over all, etc. and only by how you feel within the first several minutes after an IV injection.

Most opioids provide analagous euphoria and side effects. I mean, these studies are with former addicts who are currently clean (at least the one involving the IV Bupe being confused with IV Heroin, and the one I'm thinking of about which drugs addicts prefer and Morphine & Heroin beat a half dozen semi and full synthetics).

I think it's entirely plausible that a non-dependant, former addict could confuse any opioid given to them for any other.

Before becoming addicted and dependant, I found Buprenorphine to feel almost identical to Oxycodone (mildly stimulating, etc). Bupe also has a very large Bupe-only addict base in many parts of Europe and Asia, to the point where Heroin has been completely pushed out of the market by Subutex.

Are you sure it was IV bupe vs IV heroin?


I've only heard of studies of IV hydromorphone vs IV heroin.

 

[hugo24]

Okay didn't know that but its interesting from a scientific point of view (only).

"The 4"-fluoro analogue of the 3R,4S,βS isomer of ohmefentanyl is the most potent opioid yet discovered, possessing an analgesic potency approximately 18,000-fold greater than morphine.[3]

3) Yong, Z; Hao; Weifang; Qiyuan; Xinjian; Wenqiao; Youcheng (2003). "Synthesis and analgesic activity of stereoisomers of cis-fluoro-ohmefentanyl". Die Pharmazie 58 (5): 300–2. PMID 12779044. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohmefentanyl

 

[Hammilton]

Not exactly a legal synthetic. I'm gonna give para-nitro-methopholine a go again soon. looking forward. I tried it a while ago, but didn't commit it to paper.

 

[MurphyClox]

I'm gonna give para-nitro-methopholine a go again soon. looking forward.

Plz be careful Hammilton! Nitroaromatics aren't exactly what I would call 'healthy'. No need to cite the usual counter-examples (nitrazepam etc.) because those can be cosidered as exceptions.

Take care Hammi!

- Murphy

 

[negrogesic]

I remember seeing Faxeladol available from some RC vendor a long time ago. Not sure about potency or even if it is a pure agonist. It looks like tramadol, and most likely has some affinity for the NET as well...

Also, 3-allylfentanyl was supposedly briefly available from some vendor, this is unconfirmed though...

 

[Hammilton]

Plz be careful Hammilton! Nitroaromatics aren't exactly what I would call 'healthy'. No need to cite the usual counter-examples (nitrazepam etc.) because those can be cosidered as exceptions.

Take care Hammi!

- Murphy

You're thinking about aromatic amines, which are quite toxic. nitro aromatics don't have these issues. I'm having trouble finding any connection between toxicity and the latter.

 

[Jamshyd]

After that little mess with a certain egyptian-themed opiate (which killed a friend of mine - "staypuft" on bl), I'd be more than happy to never see opiates as "RCs" ever.