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    Kratom Withdrawals 
    #1
    Greenlighter synthetikal's Avatar
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    Hey all i kinda need some help from you guys.

    I used to be addicted to codeine but decided it was time to quit as i was spending all my money. Anyway i decided to use kratom to help kick my codeine habit. Unfortunately i liked it alot and kept using for longer than i initially planned, so now i'm addicted to kratom. I plan on quitting in the next couple of days but want to know what i could use to help ease withdrawals. I have some Syndol which contain doxylamine which sorta helps with the akathisia and some valerian to help with anxiety but find it doesnt work very well.

    Would the Lexapro i have help at all?? Also would it be a bad idea to take any of the MDPV i have?
    Last edited by synthetikal; 27-08-2009 at 15:36.
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    #2
    MDPV is horrible on the body, it might give you a short rush which'll take your mind of the WDs but I really wouldn't.

    Kratom and codeine aren't terrible to withdraw from. You could use some anti-histamines to ease the WDs - if you've made your mind up to quit the opiods just stop them and make your life easy.
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    #3
    Greenlighter synthetikal's Avatar
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    ^What anti-histamines would you recommend?? Would the Lexapro help?
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    #4
    Forget the lexapro. Withdrawing from all opiods is basically the same so please UTFSE and stop wasting peoples time. There are dozens of OTC guides to withdrawals.
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    #5
    Bluelighter x7Mx's Avatar
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    Try some diphenhydramine (benedryl), perhaps some loperamide (immodium). benzos or Z drugs if ya got em.
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    #6
    How much Kratom are you taking? The w/d's shouldn't be too bad.

    I wouldn't suggest any of the medicines you have - try benzos (IMO Clonazepam is best for w/ds), Clonodine, Cimetidine, and Loperamide.
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    #7
    your addicted to kratom???

    I did kratom for 4+ months when i had access to it...., smoked it, popped it, snorted it....loved it pretty much! But...I didnt get any withdrawl from it as you seem to be stating....

    Also, where im from, the codeine I get is wayyy cheaper then buying kratom, and codeine dosent help at all for my anxiety because of the fuckin caffeine in it....I havent had any access to the kratom since I moved and I dont really care to have it...did it help you alot??? why do you need this substance??

    I wouldnt take anything else to 'mask' the feeling you get from kratom, wherre you taking it to get high, or get through the day being a normal person? kratom is an awesome herb IMO for the fact its nothing like benzos, and works as a great SSRI, TALK ABOUT EMPATHY!!!!!

    but i mean, ive done alot of drugs seen alot of shit, maybe i just dont have it in me to get addicted to this herb...i vouche for it being awesome tho
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    #8
    I did not know you could snort or smoke kratom.

    EDIT- Actually you can't snort kratom unless maybe the isolated mitargriyne and hydroxy chemicals and smoking am not sure.
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    #9
    sorry i shouldve been a bit more bluelight about this

    the kratom i was getting was in capsuls, and it was a light brown powder in the capsuls, alot like echincia..it ws not the leaf, it seemed as it had been dried leaf grinded into a apowder, and the guy i got it from actually mixed different species in the capsuls (the mixture he liked the best, because theres so many different i guess)...it ws easily smokable and snortable (and of course you ccould pop them) and i got different effects from all the ways, no withdrawl however...and yes you can smoke, snort, chew, or swallow kratom
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    #10
    Benadryl, doxylamine succinate, valerian root, and kava are good for anxiety/insomnia. Ginger or peppermint tea and Dramamine help with nausea, and Imodium is a must-have for opiate withdrawals. Low dose DXM or benzodiazepines can also be helpful.
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    #11
    Greenlighter synthetikal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heroin Girl View Post
    How much Kratom are you taking? The w/d's shouldn't be too bad.

    I wouldn't suggest any of the medicines you have - try benzos (IMO Clonazepam is best for w/ds), Clonodine, Cimetidine, and Loperamide.
    Taking around 75g in the morning and then again in the evening. The w/d's arent that bad, its the akathisia i cant deal with. have some immodium but find it doesnt work very well.

    Smokealot: Kratom can be quite addictive. i started using it instead of codeine as it lasts longer and as you mentioned its a great SSRI, so helps with my depression. But at this stage i'm only taking it everyday to feel normal.
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    #12
    to be honest, the kratom helped me most with anxiety, while i was on it i had a feeling of caring about other people and I always made sure people who I was in contact with felt comfortable with me..maybe thats just my anxiety
    I wouldnt take anything else to 'mask' the feeling of kratom because it is one of a kind!
    if anything, I would taper off the dose slowly....im not sure of the weight because I was taking different kratom, but I would taper off it....don't take any other drugs to get the same feeling...it wont work like that....you know your addicted, now its time to slowly taper off...ive never heard of methadone for kratom withdrawl...yet
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    #13
    Bluelighter drunken_etard's Avatar
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    I know from experiance that taking anti-histamines such as diphenhydramine/dimenhydranate will increase RLS like 20x dude. Fuck it made my w/ds worse and I had no idea that it was. Untill after a read a study about how it can increase RLS in people who are W/Ding opiates. And I have quit other times now without it and noticed now that it deff maybe it much worse.
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    #14
    Bluelighter snaggletooth's Avatar
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    I have around about 3 kilos of kratom at home here, and to be honest, the only bad effect its ever had on me is constipation. I take a lot of fruit juice (mostly prune) now to counteract that. Ive taken it at least 4 times a week, with around a 7grm dose, since Feb this year, and I enjoy the absense of my depression, my new raised sociability, and the good nights sleep I get with it. Before this I was on 20mg of a drug called cipralex prescribed by my doc for my low points. But I have taken one or two breaks from it and the main symptoms are irritability, loss of sleep, sweats, and minor panic attacks. These subsided with me in 3 days or less however, so I wouldnt really say it was a bad problem. To cope, its just something to take the edge off until those days are over. I see its been mentioned here to try anti-histamines. Before finding Kratom, I would chill myself sometimes with hayfever tabs too. I notice youre from Ireland (like myself), and I was taking maybe 3 or 4 hayfever tablets containing Ceterazine. In Ireland there appear to be only two kinds - the other will contain Loratadine (its useless). You can buy a pack of 14 Ceterazine containing tabs (read the box) in the likes of Tescos for just £1.50 so theyre really cheap. If you really want to dump Kratom totally (personally Im fine with it) then by day 4-5 max it will be gone. But as a "drug" I love it. It doesnt show up on drug tests (of this I am 100% sure as I bought a 5 pack of 7 bar tests and did them all with various strains to a negative result). And it has so many benefits. If everyone only had Kratom to worry about, then we'd all have very little to worry about IMO.
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by synthetikal View Post
    Taking around 75g in the morning and then again in the evening. The w/d's arent that bad, its the akathisia i cant deal with.
    So that's 150 grams kratom a day? That's the highest I've ever heard of. I was up to 25 gr twice a day at one point.

    The best way to stop is taper. A few less grams every few days. Then going longer periods between doses. Then going a day or two and take small amounts to stay ok. Honestly, kratom does have a wd, but it's not as bad as true opiates. It's different. I get real lethargic and cranky but I don't get the deep down bone crushing spirit pain that opiates give. It's psychologically as bad as cigarettes though. The wd is like a mix of caffeine, tobacco, and a very minor codeine wd. Tapering can be painless if done right though and I have never been able to taper anything.
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    #16
    I have been addicted (and am once again) to Kratom, people who have a past of addiction to opiates seem to have very bad WD's as opposed to ppl who have not they seem to experience minimal WD's. Kratom addiction is sneaky, and before long you can find yourself dosing 3-4 times a day to not get sick, and you always wake up feeling shitty. The worst part is unlike other opiates Imodium, Benzo's and other things that ease opiate WD's don't work on Kratom. I belive this is due to the SSRI effect that Kratom has, I have however found the perfect WD substance for Kratom. Tramadol works wonders it has a SSRI effect that stops the psycosis that can be accompanied with Kratom WD, it also has a low risk for abuse. I have been able to take Tramadol for 1 week and then go completley cold turkey with no side effects.
    I hope this helps
    Peace, love and Surf
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    #17
    Bluelighter
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    isn't tramadol a prescription? he probably only has access to over the counter drugs.
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    Pretty Easy 
    #18
    Kratom is tricky to come off of cold turkey but I have found an ironically easy way to do so,
    I have taken it for a few years straight, an ounce a day.
    When I tried to stop I would get anxious for the first 24 hours and some body effects (restlessness mainly) similar to quitting smoking, like on edge, not sleepy, crabby and depressed. The worst is the depression after the first two days for me. On the contrary my friend (used nightly for a year)stopped taking it and had the opposite effect, he was extremely tired and slept for two days. The withdrawal from person to person is so different which leads me to believe its a total mental tug of war (lacking true physical addiction).
    I found that taking retalin/adderall made it very easy, just a few days of taking the Ritalin gave me the ability to get through the withdrawal . It was the easiest thing (ironically). I also took a benzo and ristoril for sleep. I had no cravings at all! It was crazy!
    I guess my main point is kratom is a mental addiction seeing how different people withdrawl differently from it.
    I think kratom should not be compared to opiates since they have a much more extreme W/D with body effects.
    Bottom line, to stop taking kratom - basically try to cut your dose in half over a week, after that time (depending on the person you are) try a benzo, bendrly or even Ritalin (like me) for the mental W/D. I have done it myself a few times. I end up returning to kratom because it really relaxes me like nothing else- its a trully organic feeling(which is my real problem).
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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by synthetikal View Post
    Taking around 75g in the morning and then again in the evening. The w/d's arent that bad, its the akathisia i cant deal with. have some immodium but find it doesnt work very well.

    Smokealot: Kratom can be quite addictive. i started using it instead of codeine as it lasts longer and as you mentioned its a great SSRI, so helps with my depression. But at this stage i'm only taking it everyday to feel normal.
    75 GRAMS????? GOOD GOD that's a LOT of Kratom. Even with 00 caps that would be about 75-100 caps. I used Kratom to get off of a 150-200mg./day oxy/hydro habit. I started with 15 00caps a day then gradually tapered down to "as needed" over about 3 weeks. Like others have said, tapering is your best bet. I had a few minor WD's after stopping Kratom but NOTHING compared to pills.

    Good luck.
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    #20
    Greenlighter msFancyPants's Avatar
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    Peace
    A quick note to those who claim that kratom is not addictive: First, let me say that I am an enormous fan of kratom (have been using it in place of a methadone maintenance for a while now with good results) so I am being completely objective when I say: YES KRATOM IS AN ADDICTIVE PSYCHOACTIVE SUBSTANCE that CAN and WILL result in very unpleasant withdrawal if used in higher amounts and for extended periods of time. I realize people are trying to preserve its legality and reputation, but this is a harm reduction site. So keep it real on here, peeps.

    Second: As drunken_etard wrote, anti-histamines such as benadryl can make RLS much worse (as well as symptoms of ataxia and akasthisia in some people) and does me personally, but doesn't in all people. These drugs ARE good for nausea, insomnia, and anxiety in some, but personally I would rather be puking that have serious RLS. Just me. I would prefer GABA drugs (though some of these aren't that helpful for n/v). Neurontin, Lyrica, Keppra (the prescription version of piracetam) can all be helpful if you have them around, and if not, phenibut is in many countries available as a supplement, and as long as its not used in very high doses, where paradoxical reactions are more likely to occur, can be great for a number or psychiatric and physical symptoms popular with opioid w/d.

    As far as tapering off of kratom: in many non-native countries of kratom, the plant, when you buy it, as long as its not an extract which, BTW, is much more risky for a tolerance and habit, contain the STEMS and VEIN, and isn't just the leaf. The stem and vein of the leaf actually contains opioid antagonists (a couple oxindole alkaloids) that work just like naloxone in buprenorphine or something would. (Thus the "less is more" saying about this drug.) So if you were using extracts or plain leaf, make an order of the crushed leaf or powdered stem and vein and taper with that. Your tolerance will go down, and therefore the w/d's won't be quite as terrible.
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    #21
    Bluelighter JiminiPimini's Avatar
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    krattom withdraw is a bitch, but its nothing compared to methadone or other opiates. id suggest what everyone else has, either ween the dose or supplement with anti-histamines and benzoes.

    there is always the route of getting plastered on booze with and marijuana. anything that gives you some dopamine should lessen the bad feelings.
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    #22
    I posted about this somewhere else but I was using high powered kratom extracts (FST) daily for about 2-3 years. I just quit 4 days ago. Before quitting, I switched to plain bali leaf and weaned myself down to about 3grams per dose, a few times a day. When I quit, it was still really bad w/ds but I was also using oxy and fent on occasion this past year. I can say that most of my w/d symptoms are gone but I'm still craving it badly.

    For me, the things that help ease w/d the most are benzos, especially xanax. Also, loperamide can help in large doses but you can get dependent on that believe it or not so don't overdo it. Also, cannabis. And diphenhydramine.

    The best thing about kratom is that its short acting so the true sickness w/ds do not last more than a couple days.
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    withdraws, no not from kratom 
    #23
    Kratom works great for kicking a opiate addiction due to its own ability to attach itself to the opiate receptors in your brain, while blocking actual opiates from attaching.

    I have NEVER heard of someone havig any withdraws from even after 60 days of use. I have seen many peoples lives returned to them thanks to the help of this super botanical and I have seen people avoid far more dangerous drugs etc, by using Kratom for energy - the killing of pain - the assisting with withdraws and blocking opiates during this withdraw.

    If Big Pharma could Patent this AMAZING botanical they would in a second (So you would not have access to it). But be warned Indiana and Iowa have been sneaky by banning Kratom under SYNTHETIC ANALOG CHEMICAL Bans.. Huh, last I checked Kratom is 100% natural and has nothing to do with synthetic chemistry.
    Last edited by novedd; 07-04-2012 at 14:50. Reason: almost blind..
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    #24
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    ^ I herd about that, and honestly thats bullshit. If they ban kratom where i live ill be doin opiates in no time. It helps me in a lot of ways i dont know what i would do. Its also crazy they put it in with the synthetics when its 100% natural, people need to challenge this law
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    #25
    I've been doing the Kratom dance for several years now, ranging from using occasionally up to binges lasting several months to a year or more. I unfortunately have had my fair share of withdrawals from harder opiates as well and some of this is gleaned from those experiences as well. Using Kratom for long enough periods of time in high enough doses will give you withdrawal very reminiscent to that of the hardest opiates, despite peoples tendency to downplay Kratom withdrawal or scoff at it saying it doesn’t even compare to such and such opiate withdrawal… well, everyone is different, but for me personally it certainly ranks up there with the best of opiates. The good news is, the duration of withdrawal symptoms and PAWS is usually far less. 3-5 days for withdrawal on average and about 2 weeks after that for PAWS is usually what I experience.

    The (UC) following a listed item will indicate to use sparingly, or to use with caution as they have their own addictive qualities and possibility for withdrawal as well. After going through Kratom withdrawals the last thing you want to have to do is withdraw from something else, so please be careful with these ones. I only list them because they are, unfortunately, some of the most helpful.

    Anyway, that being said, this following regimen is one I have tinkered with for years and seems to work pretty effectively, for me at least. You may need to play with the dosage or avoid certain substances as everyone reacts and metabolizes differently. As always, use extreme caution and start at the lowest dosage indicated for these products if you have never used them, or used them in combination. Be careful.

    Taper
    Taper off. Reduce your dosage as much as you can while feeling comfortable, over the period a week or two. You will feel some discomfort – but the goal here isn’t to get high keep that in mind - It’s to take as little as you can, but still be able to function. As you taper you can start to introduce the items listed below as needed, based on symptoms, to ease any discomfort. Psychologically, it seems to reduce some of my anxiety if I have a small supply left when I stop dosing. For some reason knowing it’s there if I need it makes it easier for me. But to do the above you need to exercise a lot of self-control. If you don’t think you can, taper off to the best of your ability and use up or throw out what you have left - or just dump it and go cold turkey.

    I’ll start with the ones that actually don’t involve taking more substances, but doing something. There is science behind all of these, but this is already getting too lengthy. If you don’t believe me, do the research!

    Excersize.
    I know this is the last thing you’ll want to do, with little no energy and feeling like overall hell… but force yourself to do it. The benefits will be obvious. Don’t under estimate the power of this one. Usually with the regimen I will list below, I feel good enough at least to get a little in. Push yourself to do this.

    Cold Showers – At least twice a day
    I know this is another hard one when your temperature feels as out of whack as it will when in withdrawal but again, don’t underestimate this. Try it for at least one day, no matter how uncomfortable, this always improves my mood and actually helps with the cold sweats/feverish feelings quite a lot. It seems to actually help my body regulate temperature or the perception of temperature more effectively.

    Nutrition
    Eat balanced and healthy (small) meals as often as you can. I know your appetite will be close to nothing and whatever you eat might come out one end or the other pretty soon, but it’s important to try to force some food down. Avoid greasy foods – they will just add to the inability to keep food IN your stomach. The substances I’m going to list below might also help recover your appetite and keep some of the food down, it does for me at least.

    Here comes the list of what to take, I don’t usually take all of these at once – I address the symptoms as they come and go and treat as needed. It’s also impossible to really prescribe a regimen that works for everyone as we all react so differently, and have different symptoms during withdrawal.

    Phenibut 2-3g (UC)
    This helps the body and mind. It improves your mood and seriously helps with the restlessness, sleep, anxiety and depression. Helps with body aches and pains. Also seems to help with my appetite, I’m not sure why I can’t really find any science to back that up. This is probably one of the most helpful ones for me. Don’t overdo it though.

    Xanax - as needed, I usually take .5 at a time (UC)
    Helps with getting to sleep and also with any anxiety the Phenibut doesn’t eliminate or in rotation with the Phenibut in order to avoid tolerance/withdrawals to either substance.

    Lyrica -75-150mg (UC)
    Helps with sleep, anxiety and body aches and pains – pretty significantly for aches and pains. Take in conjunction with Naproxen or Ibuprofen and it usually almost completely eliminates those symptoms.

    Kava – 250-500mg (UC) – Tolerance builds up EXTREMELY fast
    It’s very helpful for sleep and anxiety, and restlessness.

    Note: Rotate with all of the above, they all treat similar symptoms but have tolerance build up, addiction potential and/or withdrawal symptoms of their own, so use these in rotation as needed. The Phenibut seems to be the most helpful but try not to take any of these for more than 3 days in a row.

    Loperamide – about 50mg is the sweet spot for me
    Helps with many of the body symptoms, most importantly the diarrhea and upset stomach. Usually when I take 50+mg I’ll even get some of my appetite back. It doesn’t cross the blood-brain barrier so it won’t help with any of the mental symptoms but this one is very effective for the body related symptoms.

    Inositol/Choline 500-1000mg
    Seems to give me a bit of energy and helps with the mental fog. Clears up the cobwebs a little.

    Noopept 10-30mg
    Same as above. Gives you back a little mental clarity and some energy. Also makes it a bit easier to get some exercise in.

    Multivitamin
    Anything you can do to help your body, will help you.

    Vitamin B Complex
    Helps with energy and depression.

    5-HTP – Anywhere from 1-300mg
    Helps significantly with depression, but be careful with the dosage because it can cause nausea with is the last thing you want to give yourself more of.

    L-Theanine
    Helps with anxiety and seems to make it a little easier to relax.

    L-Tyrosine and Mucuna Pruriens
    Helps produce some much-needed dopamine. Will help with the feelings of boredom and depression.

    Omega -3 fatty acids
    Helps regain some focus and concentration.

    Several of these supplements and vitamins I already take on a daily basis but it’s extra important during withdrawals.

    Anyway, this helps me significantly. It usually eliminates many of the symptoms and makes it much more bearable. If done right, I’m fully functional. Not at my best, but I can still go to work and handle day-to-day life. I sincerely hope this helps you get through your withdrawals – This has been years of experimentation and I hope that my experience can help you get through yours. Always remember to keep in mind the reason you wanted to quit in the first place and that the state you are in is only temporary. It will get better day-by-day. Try not to think too far ahead as in “ugh I have another week of this shite to go through”. Take it one day at a time.

    Good luck to all of you going through this. I hope this helps you achieve your goals.
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