The Big & Dandy Methedrone (bk-PMMA) Thread

[Vacuumhed]

I think I went through a total of 8 grams yellow cyrstalline bk-PMMA in 3 months. As dumb as I were, I am still alive at least. Maybe I should get my cardiovascular system checked out and see how it has affected my kidneys. Why would this be toxic to your body though, except for worries of SS?´

The stimulant was rather trippy and very music enhancing. First times were more euphoric than any RCs available right now, except for mephedrone. Not recommending anyone to try this though, although trippiness gives it a really distinct and nice feel. My body kinda felt like it was floating in the air.

To the guys above, are you talking about methedrone? I read it as "mephedrone".

 

[Boris Badenov]

I've read as much as I can find but I haven't found any definitive information regarding bk-PMMA's safety profile. Is it safe to assume that it carries the same health risks as PMA/PMMA (which are known to cause severe hyperthermia and even death due to concurrent MAOI and monoamine releasing action)?

According to this thread [http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=466973] there was a report of two deaths due to overdose in Sweden. Was there any follow up reports on this to determine if other drugs were involved or how much bk-PMMA was consumed?

Personally, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole but it would be nice to know for sure for the sake of clarity and harm reduction.

 

[bignbrown]

Methylone on top of methedrone's mao inhibition, very smart.

methedrone is NOT A MAO it was just assumed to be because of PMMA being the same, this was extremely popular in sweden it was mixed with EVERYTHING by many people every weekend, i know people myself here in the UK too that have mixed with Methylone, MDMA, amphetamines, Pyschs, its not a damn MAO, thats a common misconception.

Before people come in asking for a link to prove it i dont have one, theres just no way it can be a maoi after so much mixing by many many people, this was basiclly swedens version of meph like meph was in the UK, the amount of mixing with other stimulants was huge, theres just no way.

 

[Advanc3d]

What is this hype people have with it being a MAOI.
the Ketone analogue of PMMA is more than likely to have this effect not within its chemical properties.

abit off topic now,

Even if it was, i have taken 150mg to 300mg of Moclobemide (MAOI) with MDMA before without any ill effects. Rather then double dumping without it, i was resorted to single administration with the maoi. Of course if i were to take the same amount, elevation of blood pressure / heart rate would be prominent, but considering the way reversible maoi's are structured, that is for it to be unbound from the enzyme if concentration of given neurotransmitter is reacted a threshold in relation to the dosage of moclobemide used.

 

[Shambles]

i have taken 150mg to 300mg of Moclobemide (MAOI) with MDMA before without any ill effects

People jump out of planes without parachutes and survive too sometimes. Doesn't make jumping out of planes without parachutes a good idea. It's just pure luck - or perhaps a personal quirk of your body chemistry. I hope the latter if you plan to make a habit of it...

You've been a member for three years and not noticed that BL is a Harm Reduction site rather than a Bloody Stupid, Frequently Fatal Combo Dicksizing & Bad Advice site?

 

[Advanc3d]

People jump out of planes without parachutes and survive too sometimes. Doesn't make jumping out of planes without parachutes a good idea. It's just pure luck - or perhaps a personal quirk of your body chemistry. I hope the latter if you plan to make a habit of it...

You've been a member for three years and not noticed that BL is a Harm Reduction site rather than a Bloody Stupid, Frequently Fatal Combo Dicksizing & Bad Advice site?

Mate, i have made a thread which is to do with harm reduction which happens to be in the FAQ. so i dont know what you are trying to say to me. Do not bias your opinion about me with such. If anything my understanding of chemical reaction of pharmaceuticals in all nature would be in greater compared to the users of this forums, it may not mean much to some, but i have studied pharmacology, biochemistry, chemistry and now on my second degree of psychology.. now im dicksizing.


It's better to understand the pharmacology of a substance reaction rather then blatantly putting it in the bad books because of similar substances having adverse side effects.

A lot of people jump the books when it comes to MAOI's. Specially the ones i have seen with Selegiline (being a MAO-B), people seeing it and understanding it as a normal MAOI, which if anything, it would cause a reduction in pharmacokinetics as been reported by informative users (due to noradrenaline sparing and hypotensive effect)

I surely wouldnt recommend a irreversible MAO-A inhibitor to be used with any stimulant in any case.

 

[Shambles]

It's true I am a self-confessed chemistry dunce but I know the mocloblemide/MDMA combo has killed people and fucked others up in a big way. Have you had Serotonin Syndrome? It's not nice even if you don't die delirious and in agony I can assure you

i do not recommend anyone to try higher than 75mg, 300mg is known to be lethal in any serotogenic combination.
and with moclobemide, even though 75mg is a LOT lower than threshold for any decent MAOI activity, raising it to 150 would be dangerous.

i do not recommend anyone to do it if you dont have as much experience as me.

Moclobemide and MDMA - My Experience

What's changed since last summer? I don't have access to the resources you do. Some links would be nice rather than just saying 150-300mg + MDMA (any dose? suspect it makes a difference) is fine cos you say so. And have all of 4-5 years of popping pills (tested for purity and dosage I hope) now.

I probably got more flak for my TR on IV MDMA than you did for yours cos most people knew nowt about it other than it was stupid and/or fatal. So I gave a lotta warnings and details to explain why that isn't necessarily so. I still correct some mistaken beliefs when the subject comes up now too. And have all of 17-18 years of using labtested MDMA crystal mostly... and sometimes popping pills (often tested for purity and dosage) now.

I'm all for challenging outdated ideas, but suggesting taking mocloblemide with MDMA is okay cos you were okay? It's great that you study this stuff at Uni but most don't so are maybe less likely to be okay from all I've read.

In humans, co-administration of MDMA with the reversible MAO-A inhibitor moclobemide has led to increased apparent toxicity with ensuing fatalities... Both MDMA and PMA produced significant increases in extracellular 5-HT concentrations (590% and 360%, respectively, P < 0.05). Rats treated with PMA and MDMA displayed significantly increased 5-HT-related behaviors (P < 0.05). Furthermore, only MDMA was capable of producing additional significant increases in 5-HT concentrations (980%, P < 0.05) when co-administered with moclobemide. These data suggest that co-administration of MDMA with moclobemide increases extracellular 5-HT and 5-HT-mediated behaviors and may cause increased 5-HT related toxicity similar to that reported with PMA.

source

... When previous moclobemide was co-administered with previous MDMA, sustained increases in body temperature were recorded that were significantly higher than with previous MDMA alone and such increases were not observed in our previous study at normal room temperature. Our results suggest greater risk of previous MDMA-induced adverse effects on body temperature regulation, compared with PMA, when used in combination with previous moclobemide at elevated ambient temperatures.

source

If I am misreading the info or it is out of date then please educate me cos I can only go on what I've read otherwise.

 

[Advanc3d]

As with all misleading studies(in terms of toxicity incomparison to humans, proven many times over with generalised things), dosage has yet been failed to be mentioned.

I am very sure within my knowledge that a rat being injected with 10mg/kg of MDMA post moclobemide administration does not apply in human studies(since they dont exist), specially subjects of existing tolerance. When it comes to instant plasma concentration rather then dose curve concentration via oral administration greatly effects studies as such.

 

[Shambles]

I'm aware of the possible issues (or not) with animal studies but as human studies would be unethical it's all we have. Aside from a few dead folks and many horror stories of near-misses.

You kinda dodged the other questions though, no? Links? Doses you took? Why it's not a bit silly to play with MAOi and MDMA at the same time?

 

[tissenl]

methedrone or mephedrone or..?

Tonight i had 2 lines of what they called methedrone (thats how it was pronounced). now im seeing this could have been one of two different things. im wondering which because i highly enjoyed it. white very fine powder. left a cold sensation in my nose. i did one line then 20 mins later another...and thats all...that was 5 hours ago and im still awake! i dont feel bad, but i dont feel very "high" anymore, just up. i felt speedy and up like meth and thats about it. a nice clean high. i dont have any bad comedown so far. no adverse effects at all BUT...my brother did one line and about had an anxiety attack. had very bad reaction to it. made him speed too much which is odd for him. anyway...which was it? i and the others (besides the one) loved it and will do it again. it is legal anyway! i like to do my thorough research but am a little confused as to what exactly it was.

oh and i forgot....about 10 hours before i took 2 methadone pills. zipped me through the day. did the lines much later...but could that have any effect?

 

[Solipsis]

Hey welcome,

mephedrone is found significantly more often than methedrone so chances are it was mephedrone. It works for about an hour, perhaps less than that insufflated (snorted), but the stimulation kan keep working longer...

The combination with methadone is not really recommended for the pure reason that combination with anything else is not necessarily safe, but as far as combinations go opiates and stimulants are pretty popular because a synergy is felt. The downsides to it are that it is easier to overdose and that it is additionally addictive.

 

[Coolio]

After trying 100mg of bk-PMMA via the IV route, I'd like to speculate that bk-PMMA is actually a prodrug. The effect from an IV shot reminded me of an overdose on BDB, 4-fluoroamphetamine, or PMA. Hot, swampy, warm serotonergic glow but with absolutely no euphoria. Sweating buckets, cold chills, the shakes, dysphoria. This is nothing like an oral or plugged dose of bk-PMMA, which I find extremely euphoric and more fun than MDMA. After the peak wore off I started getting a little higher and started doing some spontaneous yoga and having introspective thought sequences.

 

[rollin_stoned]

would it be safe to take opiates on the comedown of this stuff, and just how bad is the comedown compared to mephedrone?


also, are the risks of overheating at a rave the same as MDMA with bk-PMMA? Just wondering because I was planning to take some at a rave this weekend.

 

[rollin_stoned]

i took 100 mg's of this shit....didn't get anything, all i got was nauseated and hot flashes which also got me cold cause i was sweating. idk wtf that means, and call me crazy, but i'm gonna try 130 mg's next time, maybe i didnt take enough so i just got the side effects? what do you guys think?

 

[MeDieViL]

i took 100 mg's of this shit....didn't get anything, all i got was nauseated and hot flashes which also got me cold cause i was sweating. idk wtf that means, and call me crazy, but i'm gonna try 130 mg's next time, maybe i didnt take enough so i just got the side effects? what do you guys think?

Serotonine syndrome?

 

[rollin_stoned]

Serotonine syndrome?

that's what my anxiety ridden mind was thinking but i took some zofran and ended up going to a party about 2 hours after dosing and felt perfectly fine once i got there, just never got a rolling feeling or anything.

 

[MeDieViL]

Cathinones only last for 2 hours, if you got serotonine syndrome it can be expected to go away after that time..

 

[MeDieViL]

What is this hype people have with it being a MAOI.
the Ketone analogue of PMMA is more than likely to have this effect not within its chemical properties.

abit off topic now,

Even if it was, i have taken 150mg to 300mg of Moclobemide (MAOI) with MDMA before without any ill effects. Rather then double dumping without it, i was resorted to single administration with the maoi. Of course if i were to take the same amount, elevation of blood pressure / heart rate would be prominent, but considering the way reversible maoi's are structured, that is for it to be unbound from the enzyme if concentration of given neurotransmitter is reacted a threshold in relation to the dosage of moclobemide used.

Yeah, seriesly dangerous advice, it is true that reverseble maoi's can be displaced from the MAO enzyme but each reverseble moai doesnt displace as easily wich can make this rather dangerous.

 

[AndroidsDreamofBTC]

Can anyone suggest a good starting dose for this compound? Would 100mg insufflated be good starting dose? It's kind of difficult to find any solid information on this compound.

 

[Solipsis]

I wouldn't even recommend eating 25-50 mg but that seems like a more appropriate approach than snorting (faster & higher blood plasma peak levels!), at least talking about a first time. 100 is too much, this stuff is especially heavy so it is very unwise to try and get a full effect right away the very first time.

I got this stuff but I will never take it. People die from PMMA, it's not a picnic. And the beta keto makes it even worse, probably - expecting beta hydroxy metabolites messing your adrenergic systems up (even more).

If you value your life and health I would not even start trying bk-PMMA. If you don't really value them, start low for a first time and if it doesnt produce a whole lot of effect remember that there is very probable DELAY and STACKING. So don't go doubling up once, twice or more - you might just have to wait a little longer to come up and find out you actually overdosed.

Frankly I don't even care about the whole truth about this, there is a certain projection of what it might be like based on the structure and it just doesn't seem worth the possibility that it is pretty much true and will completely jack your cardiovascular system, overstimulate you to the point of panic attacks, paranoia, stim psychosis or serotonin storm.

I think I've made my point by now that it's probably better left alone. How could it be worth it???

Its a combination of no-no's for me: cathinones are not really what I consider good due to their metabolism and cardiovascular effects, the p-methoxy group apparently can fuck up your PNS / body heat control etc ? Looking at PMA and PMMA.
And well N-methyl can be nice as an extra kick but not on a fucking crazy dangerous animal as far as limited info may tell us.
4-methylamphetamine, although not really that related, is also apparently pretty bad for you. There is some pattern here to avoid, I'd
say.