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Withdrawal FAQ

^^^Please keep in mind, however, my experience w/ withdrawal is mainly limited to CNS depressants (although I have experienced withdrawal from amphetamine YEARS ago, probably more than 10 years ago, & granted, I’m 27.. heh)- but my experiences are limited to mainly opioids (of ALL flavors & duration of action) & GABAergics of nearly every category & duration, except for ultra-short acting barbiturates, Z-drugs, & selective GABAb drugs (i.e., GHB, baclofen). So any sort of compositions I were to contribute on these substances would be derived from second-hand resources, experiences, & medical literature, rather than from personal experience. Although, w/ my prose-writing background, I think I'd be able to significantly contribute to this project--if allowed to do so!

I’ll definitely get my compositions to you VAYA. But, I put a lot of work into them; so I’d rather them at least be referenced to me and/or preferably somehow being recognizing here on BL, i'd be more than happy to take upon the responsibility of "WIKI moderator"--or a similar position granting me the ability to write/edit on BL's wiki. (I was a former moderator of the Health Q & A forum—way back when, when it still existed that is—if that is of any relevancy? Also, I was VERY active in TDS forum back when B9 & Ishtar_Isis were moderators & regulator contributors over there (i'd say I was mostly active between 2006-2009). In fact, I think there is still a compiled sticky-thread that contains information I posted on opiate withdrawal; containing information on drugs & "dietary supplements" (as they're called here in the US) to help w/ symptomatic relief; symptoms of opiate-withdrawal syndrome; supportive recovery/abstinence resources (Narcotics Anonymous, best therapy resources, etc); and information on common drug-replace-therapies--along w/ their pharmacology & efficacy in acute withdrawal & longer term recovery. & OHHH how I miss midget port central, if that still exists as well that is! ha). Although, if this not possible, I’ll still contribute in any reasonable fashion possible! :)
 
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AlphaOdure said:
i'd be more than happy to take upon the responsibility of "WIKI moderator"--or a similar position...

The offer to moderate the Wiki is always appreciated AlphaOdure - this website could use a thousand with your enthusiasm (althoughI think we do pretty well ;)=) ).
At this time we are fully staffed for the Bluelight Wiki Forum. If you are interested in getting involved with the site as a moderator again, however, I suggest subscribing to the following thread to be kept most up-to-date with which forums may be seeking new staff members as the positions come up:

Bluelight Moderator Positions Currently Available

AlphaOdure said:
So any sort of compositions I were to contribute on these substances would be derived from second-hand resources, experiences, & medical literature, rather than from personal experience. Although, w/ my prose-writing background, I think I'd be able to significantly contribute to this project--if allowed to do so!

Not only are you allowed, you are encouraged!! The Wiki Project is not intended to exclude any well-meaning member of Bluelight with a passion for factual knowledge and an appreciation for harm reduction. It appears that you meet both those criteria. I openly invite you to begin constructing this Wiki.

(As an aside, to create a multi-scope Withdrawal Wiki page alone would be a really, really rude awakening in overextending oneself; I'll see what I can do to recruit some others if they are interested in contributing, but you have full license to take the reigns on this one since you have information compiled and have a sense of direction you'd like to take it all in.)

As for my own involvement, I have extensive experience with all these classes of drugs, but we're not really looking for "first-hand" experiences here. Such material is more well-suited to Trip Reports. Therefore, the types of sources you listed (and especially sources such as peer-reviewed journals, reputable books or websites, online databases, news reports, etc.) are ideal sources of information. I'd like to request that any and all verifiable information you choose to include be cited so as to provide users with further reading sources, as well as proof that what we are writing is, in fact, substantiated by reality. If you'd like, take a look at this References Section for context on what would be good sourcing material. The more sources we can find to back our writing, the more sound and trustworthy a document will be produced!

In addition to experience, however, I also have a solid level of skill with particular respect to the pharmacodynamics/pharmacokinetics, metabolism, protein binding, half-lives, post-acute withdrawal syndrome, statis epilepticus/other withdrawal-related complications, tolerance, dosage, ROA and contraindications of these drugs - most intensively, the benzodiazepines and opiates/opioids. I'm not volunteering to take on all of that information :) Howevveerrrr, if in compiling your information, outline or however else you might choose to attack this, you find you would rather I help out by writing a section on one thing or another, for all the included drugs or just one class, don't hesitate to ask me. Anyone else out there who may be reading this message right now who also has a real interest in contributing should feel free to do so, either via PM to myself or Enix150 and/or posting your information in this very thread. All will be given credit for their work!!

AlphaOdure said:
But, I put a lot of work into them; so I’d rather them at least be referenced to me

I cannot emphasize how much I understand this statement, because outlining, researching, composing and formatting that Methamphetamine Wiki took me many, many hours working steadily by myself. As mentioned above, any information included in the finished document will be credited to you at the end; see the very last section of this page and this page for specific examples of how the work can be credited to you. The exact format is probably negotiable, but let's discuss that after we've got something to credit, aye? ;)

And so, to sum up this lengthy message, my suggestion is to begin with the very basics and expand on any areas you are especially knowledgable about once a sturdy skeleton has been fashioned. If you so choose (as I did with portions of the Meth Wiki, as did littlepenguin who contributed information to that document, too), go out there and research areas you may not know as much about, yet would like to!! One of the best ways to learn anything is to know it well enough to explain it to another person - which is exactly the intention of each and every Wiki page. Write as much or as little as you feel is necessary to thoroughly convey the facts, but don't burn yourself out!! Your writing is - like mine (and anyone's) - a charity for the benefit of our greater user base; it is very important that as individuals we do not bite off more than we can chew in terms of researching and developing these pages.

AO, I'm grateful for your offer to help us sculpt this concept into reality and am very impressed with your enthusiasm! I look forward to what is to come. As it stands, I see no reason not to expect a great piece of work :)

Thanks again,

:)

~ vaya
 
Vaya said:
if in compiling your information, outline or however else you might choose to attack this, you find you would rather I help out by writing a section on one thing or another, for all the included drugs or just one class, don't hesitate to ask me.
I'll keep this in mind! However, as I said, I think categories of drugs (i.e.- ultra-short acting benzodiazepines, like midazolam; and say.. long-acting benzodiazepines like clorazepate); although- most of the symptoms will probably be listed as the same; their duration of w/d & intensity may just differ.

Vaya said:
we're not really looking for "first-hand" experiences here. Such material is more well-suited to Trip Reports. Therefore, the types of sources you listed (and especially sources such as peer-reviewed journals, reputable books or websites, online databases, news reports, etc.) are ideal sources of information
I can see your concern here; but a lot of abstracts & case-reviews are extremely lacking relative to personal experience (as most of these doctors & nurses have never felt such withdrawal; & usually think you're just "fine & dandy" as long as your BPM, blood pressure, & heart rate is quasi-normal). At the same time, in the Carisoprodol fact sheet i've written up- i have mostly included symptoms known to occur in CNS depressants & anxiolytics.. although I tried to expand upon these. Symptoms not typically associated w/ medical reviews of such withdrawal I have noted as such.
 
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Anyway, my withdrawal "fact-sheet" on carisoprodol is near completion & I will message it to you sometime today (sorry took an extra day to get back to you, btw)! I put priority on this one since there is VERY little information on carisoprodol withdrawal.. & not just on BL; but on the internet in general!

And I will mess around w/ BL wiki & its format & hopefully post it sometime today too. And also, by the way, the thread you linked to that has to do w/ moderating positions is closed; and/or I am not "allowed" to post in it, for whatever reason.. Who knows? Maybe its temporarily closed b/c no positions are open? But just thought i'd tell you.
 
Anyway, my withdrawal "fact-sheet" on carisoprodol is near completion & I will message it to you sometime today (sorry took an extra day to get back to you, btw)! I put priority on this one since there is VERY little information on carisoprodol withdrawal.. & not just on BL; but on the internet in general!

And I will mess around w/ BL wiki & its format & hopefully post it sometime today too. And also, by the way, the thread you linked to that has to do w/ moderating positions is closed; and/or I am not "allowed" to post in it, for whatever reason.. Who knows? Maybe its temporarily closed b/c no positions are open? But just thought i'd tell you.

Well, when we come up with new pages we'd rather have the users post them here, in this forum, and the moderators place it up on the Wiki. Do you want me to make a page specifically for carisoprodol or archive what you've got for inclusion in the later, "master" withdrawal FAQ page?

About the moderating positions thread includes links to the discussion forums related to those openings when moderator positions are posted by the administrators... head on over there now and see, felix just posted on about an opening in ED with a link leading to that mod spot's discussion page.

~ vaya

EDIT: for more specifics on the process of inputting information into the Wiki Project, please see this thread: Contributing to the Bluelight Wiki
 
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when im out, loperamide aka Imodium is awesome for w.ds
it is a fentynl (sp?) molecule that has an extra group of molecules that doesnt let it cross the blood brain barrier making it impossible to get high off of but ive found it works really good for my cold sweats and nauseousness, and of couse the runns
just my 2 cents...
 
amen

when im out, loperamide aka Imodium is awesome for w.ds
it is a fentynl (sp?) molecule that has an extra group of molecules that doesnt let it cross the blood brain barrier making it impossible to get high off of but ive found it works really good for my cold sweats and nauseousness, and of couse the runns
just my 2 cents...
u are so right. I mayb doing this all wrong but I wanted to thank all of you here because the imodium has really helped me to start kicking my pills. Problem is I truly enjoy them my wallet don't though. Again thanks bluelight this has been a lifesaver. For 4 bucks I can work sleep eat not be bitchy and feel good.
 
Does lope really help? Always seemed to this time idk. I did not expect to be this sick. I am 48 hours into a ct detox.
 
Vaya- i'm writing up carisoprodol w/d experiences INCLUDING in my general fact sheet. Same w/ my butalbital fact sheet... b/c i see VERY lacking info here & elsewhere; despite many local US sources w/o a doctor's Rx (although tougher to find; you can find it w/ carisoprodol still, but, its all phone based & you have to give your CC out to Indian pharmaceutical "reps" who will sell the stuff. The indian brands i've tried several times- after speaking w/ one of their "telemedicine" reps--then speaking w/ a US based doctor--actually felt just as effective, if not more so than US brands; watson's were still the best. But w/ butalbital? Its US based & COD available.. speak w/ a doctor after speaking w/ the "telemedicine rep" then talking to a (non-indian, but very American) doctor)

I definitely can write up-
butalbital; a barbiturate, sometimes sold w/o a script as fioricet

carisoprodol; a GABAergic carbmate; likely sharing a similar binding site on GABA-a as barbiturates do. As concurrent use w/ barbiturates seem to "compete" rather than increasing the effects of one or the other. Where benzodiazepines increase the potency of either due to barb vs. bzb differences in HOW they modulate GABA-a

baclofen; recently had experience w/ this GABA-b agonist, & as a result I extensively investigated & understood its pharmacology prior to first using it; quite different than the more purely affinitive GABA-a positive modular ligands like bzd's, barbs, & atypicals like carbamates.

etizolam; a thienodiazepine (sometimes referred to as a "benzodiazepine-derivative" as etizolam has a diazepine ring fused to thiophene compared to benzodiazepines which has rather a benzene ring fused to diazepine)

Can also speak in the near future on:
chloral hydrate
2m2b (2-methyl-2-butanol) or known in wiki as: tert-Amyl alcohol (TAA)

Can speak limitedly on clonazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, & lorazepam... but, have only used them w/ butalbital.. have used them w/ opioids in the past before getting off dope & onto subutex therapy.

But that's where i'm at: definitely butalbital is needed. FOR SURE. not a lot of wiki info on it... & its more widely used than most think. Same w/ carisoprodol; baclofen, too.
 
I never get relief from the cold swears and emotional crying when I'm doen from naproc. I had a bad back enjury for mane years. Thanks to epidural shots i can walk again, and the pain is so muchbetter that half the time i need no main pills so I can quit it and use poppy tea. It really works but then I withdraw from that. I feel stuck.
 
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