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Thread: Experimenting with Kava, Kratom and More - Advice for a newb?

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    Experimenting with Kava, Kratom and More - Advice for a newb? 
    #1
    Greenlighter
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    Hello,

    I recently have been going through researching information about various herbal drugs that are legal (in most places) in an attempt to find out as much as possible before embarking on my endeavor to try some of nature's lesser known mind-altering substances.

    I had been wondering what sort to order online, and what would be the best for my experience as a newbie to this realm. I am pretty sure I will be ordering Kava Kava, Salvia Divinorium (which I have tried before), and Kratom. I was also contemplating Blue/White Lotus as well, but figure I may have only enough funds for the three.

    In terms of Kava Kava, I had read that powdered root is the best. I recently bought a tincture at Whole Foods and tried 3 droppers full, with no effects, only mild sedation. So I figure that i may end up buying ground root paste from an online vendor I found.

    I was curious, are there are forms of Kava people recommend? I have heard the way to consume it is with powdered root in a shake of some sort, but I wonder if anyone has tried other methods.

    In terms of the Kratom, I have read a lot of talk about UEI, or Ultra Enhanced Indonesian Kratom. I have also heard of Indo Mash, but I haven't find much in the way of information on it. UEI seems to be a favorite of Kratom aficionados, but with so many types out there, it is difficult for me to figure what I should choose from. From the posts I've read, Bali Kratom seems to have more or a sedative effect, while UEI is more of a stimulant, and less of a dose is required for strong effects. I was contemplating ordering some of both, but I was wondering if anyone had any advice for me, considering I have never tried it before. I have also read of Kratom extracts (and Kratom Resin), but I am unsure about the effects of this, has anyone experimented with it? Also, I am assuming that Kratom is taken orally, but does anyone have any preferred preparation methods I could try? I know that Salvia Divinorium is mainly consumed via smoking, but I wonder if that is possible with Kratom as well, but perhaps not recommended for the best effects.

    If anyone has any suggestions about other legal herbs that might be good to try via online acquiring, and preferred preparation/dosage methods, or particular types (Bali/Thai Kratom vs UEI Kratom) I would greatly appreciate any advice. Thanks in advance!
    Last edited by demon_candy; 02-08-2009 at 09:55.
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    #2
    Bluelighter phatass's Avatar
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    kava is very weak from what i've read... Kratom on the other hand is a medium potent opiate, i don't know exact dosages, but have read that it gives an opiate like high.... as for salvia, it's one of the most potent psychadelics out there, did you do leaf or extract? you need to take it in a bong hit, and keep the smoke for over 30 seconds for it to work properly... did you do that? i ask cause you don't seem that marked by the salvia, when i found it blew my mind to pieces...

    i also tried blue lotus, but i don't think i did enough cause i didn't get any effect, but a friend who had taken more a while before said he had a mild relaxing cannabis like high, but that its not worth the money you pay for it...

    salvia is probably the best bang for your buck...

    you can also still buy "truffles" or "philosophers stones" on online smartshops, they are a type of magic mushroom that do not have the same substance in them as mexicans or hawaians, but none the less provide a pleasant, and strong (in high doses) trip
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    #3
    My advice on Krantom is not to get extract, and not to get a type that is too expensive. I have heard that the potency does not really vary as much as marketed, and in my experience this true. I have tried types of Thai Krantom and Red leaf indo Krantom, and personally I preferred the effects of Thai Krantom. For methods of use, I love making tea with dried leaves... its very tasty, creates a nice ritual..

    I have found Kava to be rather weak, like taking half a valium maybe at my highest doses, not so worth it imo. Blue lotus is interesting, but same story imo.

    The mushroom the above poster described are Amanita Muscaria I believe. These I would def recommend. You can get dried caps online, and make tea from them. I found the "trip" very unique, very earthy, sort of like a mix of a dissociative, regular psychedelic, and sedative, but very natural feeling and easy to go with.

    I would also recommend kanna, I had half a gram of 5x extract once in a drink and it was pretty nice, relaxing, emotional, worth the ~9 bucks I payed for the gram.
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    #4
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    @phatass: I agree, it does seem a bit difficult to find Kratom at a good price. I am surprised that kava really isn't very strong at high doses, perhaps I will wait until another time to try it. It really doesn't taste very good at all, and while I would enjoy a relaxing effect similar to Vicoden/Valium in small doses, I'm not so sure the taste is worth the trouble, lol.

    I didn't mention too much about Salvia because I have had a fairly decent amount of experience with it. I bought some once in a store that came in a vial, it was 25x extract I believe, it and did blow my mind away for about 5-10 minutes. I did make sure to use a butane lighter and a water pipe, as I had read Salvia needs high heat to work its magic.

    However the second time, I bought some "Purple ...." Brand from a store, that roughly cost around $30, the same i had paid before, and said it was 40x extract, more potent than the stuff I had bought before. Needless to say, the effects were barely that of a 10x, and I felt mildly spacey for a few minutes, but not the full-blown effects i had had before. I decided I will purchase from an online vendor, perhaps 35x extract, and I hope I have a better experience than before.

    However, I have also seen Salvia Divinorium liquid tincture, and have been curious about that sine I have read that the effects last longer, albeit a bit milder. I have heard though it is very bitter, and hard to hold in the mouth, and swallowing it doesn't give the desired effect. Has anyone ever tried it?

    @TouchN' Stuff Blvd: Making tea sounds nice, I have seen powdered Kratom online which is supposed to dissolve well in water. Kanna I have read a bit on and wanted to try, but i guess I always assumed Kava was stronger being more heavily marketed. After reading your post, I am considering purchasing Amanitas as well. I have seen them at other online vendors, and was always curious about them. The only thing I am worried about is receiving Mushrooms in the mail. Am I correct in assuming that Amanitas are legal in the U.S.? I was thinking about getting a P.O. Box for purchasing everything, but I wouldn't want to alert the authorities by getting something in the mail that looks similar to Psilocybin Mushrooms, which aren't legal, lol.

    Thanks for your advice!
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    #5
    I generally make Krantom tea from dried leaves, that way you can remove them afterwards. leave them in simmering water 20 min, strain, and then use them again to make one or two more batches. Putting powder in water would probably work but I dont know if I would call that "tea," and my guess it would not taste too good.

    Amantias are legal, yes. They don't look so much like psilocybin mushies, but I guess to the untrained eye... I can see your concern.
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    #6
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    I'm actually very interested in Amantias though, and recently saw some Amantias extract at one of the vendors that I ordered my Kratom from. I'm curious if the extract (in resin form) is meant to be consumed orally or smoked? I generally associate resin with smoking, which is why I ask, lol.

    I finally made my purchase online for 1 ounce of Maeng Da Thai Kratom, and 3 grams of UEI Kratom. (Both cost me about the same, lol.) I'm pretty sure that both are in powdered form.

    I was wondering if anyone had any dosage advice? I have read on the forums that having 4 hours between taking the Kratom and your last meal is recommended. I may just mix it in a hot beverage, but I agree that any way I ingest it, it most likely will not taste good, lol.

    From what I assume via research, I think I may probably start out with either .5g of the UEI or 5 grams of the Maeng Da, but any advice is highly appreciated, as I wouldn't want to get sick on my first try!

    Thanks in advance.
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    #7
    Bluelighter phatass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TouchN' Stuff Blvd View Post
    The mushroom the above poster described are Amanita Muscaria I believe. These I would def recommend. You can get dried caps online, and make tea from them. I found the "trip" very unique, very earthy, sort of like a mix of a dissociative, regular psychedelic, and sedative, but very natural feeling and easy to go with.
    No "philosophers stones " are "tampanensis"... they are stronger than the amanitas IMO... allthough i smoked some extract of amanita mixed with salvia extract, and it blew me to pieces (granted i had consumed 2 grams of ket and nearly a gram of mdma)
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    #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by demon_candy View Post
    I'm actually very interested in Amantias though, and recently saw some Amantias extract at one of the vendors that I ordered my Kratom from. I'm curious if the extract (in resin form) is meant to be consumed orally or smoked? I generally associate resin with smoking, which is why I ask, lol.

    I finally made my purchase online for 1 ounce of Maeng Da Thai Kratom, and 3 grams of UEI Kratom. (Both cost me about the same, lol.) I'm pretty sure that both are in powdered form.

    I was wondering if anyone had any dosage advice? I have read on the forums that having 4 hours between taking the Kratom and your last meal is recommended. I may just mix it in a hot beverage, but I agree that any way I ingest it, it most likely will not taste good, lol.

    From what I assume via research, I think I may probably start out with either .5g of the UEI or 5 grams of the Maeng Da, but any advice is highly appreciated, as I wouldn't want to get sick on my first try!

    Thanks in advance.
    I found the Maeng Da not to be worth the extra money, it didnt give me much of a buzz. Maybe it was just a dodgy batch. That said though, it was during my kratom phase and I found it made me more tolerant to the other strains, so I had to take more to get the same effect. Maybe I was just getting used to the subtle buzz.

    I've never tried the UEI but if you've never tried Kratom before I'd stick to 0.5g first dose. You can always stop up if you aren't off baseline after 30-40mins. Just take it steady. The nausea is worse than opiate sickness. It makes your head spin and throwing up doesn't always make it better. Not to but you off or anything! Kratom is a lovely herb.
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    #9
    Kava or Lotus will have minimal/no effect if you have ever used benzodiazepines in high doses.

    You may like Kratom if you are opiate naive.

    Salvia Divinorum is a powerful psychedelic that even those who are quite experienced with hallucinogens do not enjoy, however individual tastes differ.
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    #10
    Kratom is great but you need shop about experiment a bit a bit to see how it can benefit you. I find youtube a great place for kratom info as there seem to be more and more kratom based videos uploaded all the time. Enjoy!
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    #11
    Bluelighter egor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrjackjones View Post
    Kava or Lotus will have minimal/no effect if you have ever used benzodiazepines in high doses.

    You may like Kratom if you are opiate naive.

    Salvia Divinorum is a powerful psychedelic that even those who are quite experienced with hallucinogens do not enjoy, however individual tastes differ.


    Nymphea species of lilley dont do a whole lot, but nelumbo nucifera (sacred lotus) isnt even it the same league as the half ass lillies, it actually provides distinct effects, especially if you go with the 95% nuciferine isolates. Beats the hell out of all other lilley/lotus preperations I have tried, and is quite consistent in its effects...

    Kratom is better for me than all opates but morphine; plus I may get some mild nausea, but nothing like I get with even vicodin.
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    Kratom and Kava together 
    #12
    I am now drinking a 10 gram kava rootbark tea, steeped just below boiling and left to simmer for an hour ( it has to do with the alkolids being not destryed). It is a less beeffy version than use to make my kratom tea which is always wait until the water is just boiling, let it sit for a second and get everything situated, and pour the kratom and allow half an hour to cool.
    But I've been dinking Kratom since I woke up probably have had about 1/2 ounce through the day, so if theres any cross effect I'll find out in about and hour mabye?
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    #13
    Try making tea your new drug (it's doable), between kratom, skullcap, leonitus leonus, mugwort, and real actaul good kava. You can spend all day making different types of tea and never once break the law, or even drink. seriously you won't even wanna drink. Just get the good two handled stainless steel looseleaf tea makers you get at most non-corporate and cofee shops. Live on tea make mixes all types, and most kava is the bark and almost depleted of kavalectones, you need a real kava supplier, just like kratom. You can turn being always buzzed cost less than smoking cigertates.
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by phatass View Post
    kava is very weak from what i've read... Kratom on the other hand is a medium potent opiate, i don't know exact dosages, but have read that it gives an opiate like high.... as for salvia, it's one of the most potent psychadelics out there, did you do leaf or extract? you need to take it in a bong hit, and keep the smoke for over 30 seconds for it to work properly... did you do that? i ask cause you don't seem that marked by the salvia, when i found it blew my mind to pieces...

    i also tried blue lotus, but i don't think i did enough cause i didn't get any effect, but a friend who had taken more a while before said he had a mild relaxing cannabis like high, but that its not worth the money you pay for it...

    salvia is probably the best bang for your buck...

    you can also still buy "truffles" or "philosophers stones" on online smartshops, they are a type of magic mushroom that do not have the same substance in them as mexicans or hawaians, but none the less provide a pleasant, and strong (in high doses) trip
    __________________________________________________ __________

    If you're saying kava is weak, then you've never been affected by kava. I'm here to tell you that the ways most people say to make it bullshit. Kava tea??? I don't think so. The active ingredients - kavalactones - are destroyed to one degree or another at temperatures above 140 degrees. Warm water, a blender, and a couple of strainer bags are all you need to make a drink that can knock you on your ass and make you feel fantastic. I have to laugh at how much bogus and useless information about kava there is out there. Go to a kava bar sometime if you're in Hawaii or Fiji or Papua New Guinnea. Then you'll learn about some good kava. Meanwhile, you can make kava just as good at home if you do it right. Ask me for good instructions if you're interested. I only say this because I've learned by trial and error, and now I've got it down to a science. Your call...
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    #15
    You'd already tried salvia so there isn't much I can tell you that you don't already know. Salvia, nitrous, and acid simultaneously is the craziest mind fuck I've ever had. That was the last time I did salvia and I don't have much desire to go back there again.

    I am a big fan of Kratom. I always go for the cheap bali powered leaf. It gives you the best bang for the buck by far. The only issue with it is that you have to eat a shit load of it and it tastes god awful. Most extracts are shit, except UEI. There might be some other good ones out there too but I don't know about them if there are. However, UEI costs a lot more for the same dose. If you can handle eating a lot of powered leaf, save your money and get the not extracted stuff. As for the best way to take it, I usually toss and wash. Gel caps are the most pleasant way to take it but making 25 gel caps can get a bit tedious.
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    #16
    I'm drinking some yogi kava tea right now to relax for the night. I take adderall during the day and would like something to relax at night without the addictiveness of a benzo. So far I just finished one cup (with two tea bags), and I'm feeling pretty relaxed (dunno if it's due to the tea though, I was kinda feeling like that before). I'm gonna make another cup and see what happens.

    And yes I know yogi tea is weak compared to other ways of using kava, but I just saw it at the store so it was an impulse buy.

    I tried the kava capsules awhile ago and they just made me sick to my stomach, and nothing else.
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    #17
    Anyone know where to get decent kanna? How do you use the kratom powder??
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