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The Big & Dandy ++++ Thread

Agreed, but language is always no more than approximation. The best we can do is use mathematics. During a week of Zen meditation with people I tried to come up with a mathematical model for relating illumination to approaching infinity, it seemed I came close but never succeeded.
There is a documentary about that called dangerous knowledge about physicists and mathematicians trying to come up with brilliant theorems and models related to mysticism or universal workings and God, it drove many of the insane in the end.

you should have a look at set theory (especially its creator; Georg Cantor (ended up mad) and such thought-provocing tidbits as the Russell Paradox). what wonderful and problematic attempt at this it is.

perhaps the most universal aspect of a +4 would be a 'breach' (or at least a crack) in the 'ego wall' (ie. the rationalised, structured, ex-plained world one lives in) that continues to defy all attempts at rationalisation or irrationalisation. It simply won't fit in, and neither can it be discarded as hallucination. it just remains in its essence an infinitly dense, undividable, inaccesible 'point' in the mind, yet it continues to spill over from within itself in (again) infinite approximations of itself whenever one contemplates it.
 
Ive done a lot of reading on ++++ experiences and feel like ive experienced one before; However many people may not believe me when I say it was off only 2 grams of mushrooms. That satement alone may anger people whove eatin heroic doses and not achieved a ++++ or it may just lead people to believe im bullshitting.

So I want as those who have expereinced a ++++ to tell me, does my trip sound like it was one of these rare states reached. heres a link to the report http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=392114&highlight=mushroom+heart+epic

was I really there or just flirting with it. information ive read inclines me to think I did reach a ++++. If this is true then why off only 2 grams when people sometimes take much more then that and still fall short? could it have been other catalysts mentioned or something different? im curious to hear other BLers opinions. thanks
 
YOU'RE NOT HONORED, you just feel that way. Fact is, you took either too much or just enough...I aint arguing, it's great is is not?
 
chosen by who?
if no one chose you, then the question should be "how do you feel to have been lucky enough to have experienced a ++++

ps : except for the ++++, i find shulguin's scale rather bad at describing the scale of experiences


Is ++++ really just ego death?
no
Ive done a lot of reading on ++++ experiences and feel like ive experienced one before
if you had one, you have no doubt about it
you don't even need to know what a ++++ means to know that you've experienced something that transcends anything you could have dreamed of

just like ego death : if you "think" you had ego death, you haven't
it doesn't leave any place for doubt

++++ is beyond anything that can be put in words.
that

How have you dealt with that experience? How have you tried to relate it to other people? How have you attempted to integrate it into your life?
i totally integrated it in my life
i tell it to anyone who's interested (asking me about my ayahuasca and 5-mro-dmt tattoos for instance) and don't care if they take me for crazy because i know they live a lie

those where the most important instants of my life and will be forever

there's my life before, and my life after
fortunately, it kind of teleportated me forward in the direction i was going rather than reveal paradoxes with what i was thinking. so it was rather easy to integrate (if you can strip yourself of all your prejudices)

i told my parents, who had no idea that i was using drugs and had all the prejudices that parents have

and even tried to convince them to take ayahuasca
they listened to me and i think rather believe me, although they can't really understand it
but they're a bit scared of trying

i've many friends who don't use psychedelics; and because they know me, they took it seriously
they showed interest in trying
but i moved away and i don't think they'll do the effort on their own
 
"I finally allowed myself to feel a +3.9999repeating How honored I am to be Chosen"
 
Ive done a lot of reading on ++++ experiences and feel like ive experienced one before; However many people may not believe me when I say it was off only 2 grams of mushrooms. That satement alone may anger people whove eatin heroic doses and not achieved a ++++ or it may just lead people to believe im bullshitting.

Pretty sure you can experience a +4 without any drugs at all.
 
I wouldn't call it being chosen, as opposed to choosing....but its certainly a tremendous feeling; though whether it means anything is up to the individual...:)

Agreed.
Because though much of the experience feels to be coming from 'elsewhere', it is your head
and it took your conditioning yourself to become receptive to that experience, after all.
I've had enough ++++'s to where I no longer feel the need or desire to take any more
psychedelics again. But I am forever fascinated by those peak moments.
But thankful? To what? myself? the impersonal Nature?
The Field and the Knower of the Field end up as one regardless.
Namaste +
 
A couple of months ago I attended a sesshin which was like a one week program
to meditate in complete Zen-tradition, that was so peaceful and profound <3
Around 10 people gathered in a log cabin with genius tea, tons of reading material, the
vow of silence (only few neccessary words were uttered to control the patterns)..

With my wholehearted best friend who had joined me on this sesshin, while taking a walk through the woods - i a kinhin phase - my senses were soo sharp, nearing crispy ;)
and during the meditative sessions occasionally I saw contrast inverting and light started to shine from everything <3 I can't believe the peace we had, this experience in it's entirety was so extraordinary... and the heart of it all was the pure fact that it was so extremely ordinary, if only I could express that peace.... and deep down I want nothing more than to sustain it...
 
only +++ for me so far on DMT. would be going for a 4 but my mimosa hostilis root bark spilled from my container while i was away so i lost everything before i was able to do my final pull :( gonna get more soon and go at it again... can NOT wait.
 
Ventricular system, cerberal spinal fluid (which contains DMT) "Third Eye System" - Horus Connection

horuspinealgland.jpg

Interestingly, my first and only "++++" experience (which also happened to be my first acid trip, and my second psychedelic experience after having done DMT once) was on 1.5 tabs with the eye of horus printed on them, which I've never seen since, and have never been able to get any information on 8)
 
++++ experiences

I just wanted to hear from people about their ++++ experiences. I achieved this on 2c-b after i injested 60mg oraly with no previous 2c-b experience. Not only did i not freak out, i had a very beautiful experience simply sitting in my bed. please do share your experiences
 
i totally integrated it in my life
i tell it to anyone who's interested (asking me about my ayahuasca and 5-mro-dmt tattoos for instance) and don't care if they take me for crazy because i know they live a lie

those where the most important instants of my life and will be forever

there's my life before, and my life after
fortunately, it kind of teleportated me forward in the direction i was going rather than reveal paradoxes with what i was thinking. so it was rather easy to integrate (if you can strip yourself of all your prejudices)

i told my parents, who had no idea that i was using drugs and had all the prejudices that parents have

and even tried to convince them to take ayahuasca
they listened to me and i think rather believe me, although they can't really understand it
but they're a bit scared of trying

i've many friends who don't use psychedelics; and because they know me, they took it seriously
they showed interest in trying
but i moved away and i don't think they'll do the effort on their own

Amazing story ... I recall reading an incredible 5-meo-dmt report you posted a while back.

This may sound like a strange request, but do you have a picture of your 5-meo-dmt tattoo? Or ayahuasca? I'd love to see them. :)

P.S. Here's the 5-meo-dmt report for anyone that hasn't read it.
 
due to this recent discussion here's a bump on this old thread, which I believe deserves getting a new life

In my whole life I had 2 ++++ experiences. One with (of all things) 5-MeO-DIPT. Yes, Foxy. 15 mg was the dosage that changed my view of the world ever since. Another one quite recently (8 months ago) with 20 mg of 4-AcO-DMT. It was the right thing at the right time of my life and made a deep impression on my Self (capital S).

I've had larger dosages of these and other (more potent) compounds, but what I received in these 2 occasions transformed me for ever
 
If you hypnotize them properly, everyone will "see" and "know" the universal white light truth they are "the chosen one". That being said: It's extremely easy to do self-hypnosis on psychedelics. In fact it would surprise me if there was only one trip in the history of mankind where the psychonaut did not do (possibly unknowingly) self-hypnosis to a certain extent.
You can also hypnotize yourself to trip harder. Maybe the ++++ experience is actually the result of a properly done self-hypnosis, with lots of help from psychedelic chemicals.
 
If you hypnotize them properly, everyone will "see" and "know" the universal white light truth they are "the chosen one". That being said: It's extremely easy to do self-hypnosis on psychedelics. In fact it would surprise me if there was only one trip in the history of mankind where the psychonaut did not do (possibly unknowingly) self-hypnosis to a certain extent.


No one is saying they are the "chosen one". "chosen" in the title is perhaps a poor word, but what is implied is that many people despite having years of psychedelic use never got a single ++++. Shulgin himself mentions 2 or 3 in his life. Many people report ++++ experiences so this is probably the "chosen many"! Also to have a ++++, as many have mentioned, you don't even need psychedelics.

About self hypnosis on psychedelics.I strongly doubt that would be possible. Strong delusions sure are possible (and do happen a lot), but I would not qualify them as self-hypnosis.


You can also hypnotize yourself to trip harder. Maybe the ++++ experience is actually the result of a properly done self-hypnosis, with lots of help from psychedelic chemicals.

For certain substances certainly it is possible to self-induce stronger than expected results (placebo effect). For others, no. For instance, n,n-DMT or 5-MeO-DMT come to mind both as inimitable by placebo effect. None of them per se guarantees a ++++, by the way.
 
Shall I adjust the title to simple "++++ (Plus Four Experiences)" ?

I also think we should have a thread about Shulgins scale in general.
 
About self hypnosis on psychedelics.I strongly doubt that would be possible. Strong delusions sure are possible (and do happen a lot), but I would not qualify them as self-hypnosis.

Well, I would. As those delusions are created by the user, by influencing his suggestible mind. That's basically hypnosis.

For certain substances certainly it is possible to self-induce stronger than expected results (placebo effect).

It's not a placebo effect. It's programming the mind and consciously changing your mindset. Like hypnosis during a state of trance (altered state of consciousness). To reach a state of trance you basically reprogram your mind. As the psychedelic experience is similar to trance and you influence the direction of the trip by consciously or unconsciously programming your mind, it can potentiate the intensity. It would also be possible to decrease the intensity of the trip. By making the necessariy adjustments to your mind which make it calm down etc.
 
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