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Harm Reduction Micron Filter Questions: What Can Get Through?

Hey all
I just want to add that the new generic subutex pills contain a filler called crospovidone. This substance is unfortunately water soluble, and wiki has the following to say about it:

It is used as a binder in many pharmaceutical tablets[3]; it simply passes through the body when taken orally. However, autopsies have found that crospovidone does contribute to pulmonary vascular injury in substance abusers who have injected pharmaceutical tablets intended for oral consumption.[4

So.....it looks like this bugger will get past even a micron filter since it is water soluble, and this quote seems to suggest that it is not something you want to be injecting.

See, its stuff like this that concerns me when using a micron filter. When using these wheel filters you tend to assume that you are filtering out all of the bad stuff, but no filter is going to filter out water soluble substances, and clearly there are water soluble substances (like this one) that are not good to shoot.


Also, the original subutex as well as suboxone do not have crospovidone in it, but they do have a substance called povidone k30, which is clearly a related substance. Povidone k30 is also water soluble and I wonder if it has the same health issues when injected that the related crospovidone does. Anyone have any info on this?-DG
 
I found this with a quick search on Google:

Povidone K 30 of Pharmaceutical is a new and excellent pharmaceutical excipient. It is mainly used as binder for tablet, dissolving assistant for injection, flow assistant for capsule, dispersant for liquid medicine and pigment, stablizer for enzyme and heat sensitive drug, coprecipitant for poorly soluble drugs, lubricator and antitoxical assistant of eye drug. PVP has been used as excipients in more than one hundred drugs.

Sounds like it's used to prepare certain solutions for injection, so it should be OK.

Here's the link:

http://www.peakchem.com/products/PVPk30.HTM
 
Thank you Gibby!

I had some concerns about povidone K30, because it's an irritant to certain bodily organs.

However, I think it'll be just fine.

This is a great reason to stay on brand name Suboxone or Subutex instead of getting a generic if you are planning on IVing buprenorphine.

Thanks for the research efforts DG and Gibby!
 
Generic Subutex

Just wanted to add the inactive ingredient list for the new Roxane Laboratories generic 2mg and 8mg Subutex tablets:

-anhydrous citric acid
-corn starch
-crospovidone
-lactose monohydrate
-magnesium stearate
-mannitol
-povidone
-sodium citrate

EDIT:

Compare to the Reckitt-Benckiser brand name Subutex 2mg & 8mg tablets:

-lactose
-mannitol
-cornstarch
-povidone K30
-citric acid
-sodium citrate
-magnesium stearate

Subtle differences possible in the form of lactose, povidone and citric acid between the two, Crospovidone is present in the new generic but not in the old brand.
 
^ Well, the lactose is no different, and the addition of citric acid doesn't mean much since it already has sodium citrate, so the only 'real' difference is the crospovidone.



bang that shit said:
but fuck i called 8 medical supply stores in the city for filters, half had no idea what I was talking about, 1 asked me to explain what i needed them for with insulin syringed .... im like ummmmmmm..... "trying to inject the safest way possible" he then hung up. and the last few knew what they were but didnt have them. there are afew places i can stil try but they wont be open till monday.
I don't think you can buy micron filters at a medical supply store, at least not at any 'normal' ones. The only place I ever got mine was a hospital (online works too, of course); pharmacies don't stock them and I doubt medical supply stores will sell them to a walk-in individual if they even carry them. Also, keep in mind that micron filters do not work with insulin syringes- micron filters require syringes with removable tips, called "tuberculin" or "luer lock" syringes (luer lock = syringe with unscrewable tip).
 
Let me comment on the whole povidone/crospovidone issue.

While these are very similar substances, there is one MAJOR difference:
Povidone (which is found in brand name subutex) is water soluble while Crospovidone (found in the generic roxane subutex) is NOT water soluble.

Crospovidone has been found to cause pulmonary/vascular injury in those that inject pills containing crospovidone. This is almost certainly due to users either not filtering, or improperly filtering these pills, and thus the crospovidone makes it into their bloodstream.-DG
 
^ Crospovidone IS water soluble.

No. Unfortunately you are incorrect about this. I was initially under the impression that crospovidone is water soluble, but it turns out that it is completely INSOLUBLE in water.
Check it out:

http://www.pformulate.com/crospovidone.htm

Because it is insoluble in water, if it is not properly filtered in water, it will accumulate in the lungs and other organs and cause injury.-DG
 
No. Unfortunately you are incorrect about this. I was initially under the impression that crospovidone is water soluble, but it turns out that it is completely INSOLUBLE in water.
Check it out:

http://www.pformulate.com/crospovidone.htm

Because it is insoluble in water, if it is not properly filtered in water, it will accumulate in the lungs and other organs and cause injury.-DG

In that link you can also find the particle size of it, it's larger than 0.22um. It would be removed with micron filtering, even if it was water soluble (and apparently: it isn't).

Thanks again for the clarification DG!
 
No. Unfortunately you are incorrect about this. I was initially under the impression that crospovidone is water soluble, but it turns out that it is completely INSOLUBLE in water.
Check it out:

http://www.pformulate.com/crospovidone.htm

Because it is insoluble in water, if it is not properly filtered in water, it will accumulate in the lungs and other organs and cause injury.-DG

You are indeed correct DG.

The info I was looking at was on Providone, my bad!
 
I felt like posting this here because I didn't know where else to put it.

possible health problems due to IV polysorbate 80...
http://infertility.suite101.com/article.cfm/polysorbate_80_causes_infertility


I can't confirm or deny their claims, just post them so everyone is aware what some people are saying.
 
So for mscontins, the 0.45 micron is not fine enough to get all the talc? I assume it is still way better than just a cigarette filter. A little research showed that the majority of talc particles are above 1 micron, still though, best to get em all.
 
Hey guys, great thread. I found it by googling it ^^

So what's the deal with povidone?
Will it get through a 0.22µm micron-filter? It is water-soluble, so will it get through? Some people mentioned that micron-filters work similar to reverse-osmosis, so even if a substance is soluble in water, it won't get through a 0.22µm micron-filter IF the size of the molecules/particles is bigger than 0.22 micrometers.

I have some nice 40mg oxygerolan pills. They look very similar to the original oxycontin (here in Europe, the oxycontin is still "original"), and they can be shot/snorted/etc.

Ingredients:
Oxycodone-hydrochloride (obviously)
-Kollidon SR (80% Polyvinylacetate, about 18% Povidone {K = 22.5 - 27.0 --> I don't know what that means}, 0,8% Sodium-Lauryl-Sulphate and the remaining 1,2% must be Silicon-dioxide "Silicate")
-Microcrystalline cellulose
-highly disperse "water-free" Silicone-dioxide (sorry, I'm translating from German to English)
-Magnesiumstearate ("herbal" or "of vegetable origin" --> again, sorry, my English isn't the best)

The coating contains:
Poly(vinylalcohol)
talc
titanium-dioxide
Macrogol 3350
Sojalecithine
Iron-oxide yellow
Iron-oxide black
Iron-oxide red

The 80mg also contain "Indigocarmine" and "aluminum-lacquer", but I have the 40mg's.

If I remove the yellow coating (they look pretty much like the OC's) and crush them to fine dust, then stir it in very cold water and filter it through cotton and a 0.22µm micron-filter, would it be safe to inject? I did it 2-3 times and I didn't feel fine afterwards, but it could have been due to a panic reaction or anxiety, because I was very worried about the sodium-lauryl-sulphate (I don't know if this is the correct English word for this substance, in German it's called "Natrium-Lauryl-Sulfat"; maybe the real name is sodium-laureth-sulphate in English, but I looked it up and it seems as if sodium-lauryl-sulphate and sodium-laureth-sulphate are two different substances). The "solution" is very cloudy and "white" before filtering. After filtering it, it's clear.
 
should a micron filter be used for BTH or east coast powder?

how does the heroin in the UK pharmaceutical vials keep from breaking down to morphine when in solution?
 
should a micron filter be used for BTH or east coast powder?

how does the heroin in the UK pharmaceutical vials keep from breaking down to morphine when in solution?

I use micron-filters for everything I inject. You'd be surprised about how much clearer a heroin-solution is when filtered through a micron-filter. Filter EVERYTHING! Doesn't matter if it's pills, heroin, cocaine... ...just filter it!

There is no hydrolysis taking place in the heroin vials because there is no water in it. Just diacetylmorphine-hydrochloride in pure, crystalline/powder form (absolutely white; pure heroin base would also be totally white, not brown, like many people think). When someone needs an injection, sterile water for injection-purposes (maybe they use sterile saline for injection-purposes instead of sterile water) is squirted into the vial to dissolve the heroin. Then it is used immediately. This way, no hydrolysis takes place.

I hope someone can answer my questions. :(
 
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