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    get high on vivitrol? 
    #1
    Needle
    so i've been forced by my parents and psychiatrist to get the vivitrol injection once a month to treat my heroin addiction. i know it blocks the opiate and alcohol receptors but i'm having such bad cravings and i want to know if there's someway i can still get an opioid or opiate high while on the shot.. and if so with what? i wanted to make some poppy seed tea the other day and then i remembered it was a fucking opiate and i wouldn't feel it. help! i thought about using some other drugs like weed or benzos but i'm an opiate girl and that's what i'm fiend-ing for right now.. not to mention i really don't like any other highs.. so what can i use on this shit shot?
     

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    #2
    Bluelighter
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    No advice, but I think that is an incredibly cruel thing for them to make you do.
     

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    #3
    you're telling me.. and i'm fucking dope sick and they wouldn't even prescribe me suboxone or methadone for my withdrawals.. they went right to that god damn shot and i feel horrrrrrible
     

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    #4
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    Oh Baby Girl I can just imagine!

    WHY would they not give you subs? Did they state a reason?

    Do they even fucking realize how counterproductive this will be in the long run?

    Damn. I would never do that to one of my kids, no matter how serious an addiction they had. That's cruel n unusual punishment.

    Do you have any access to a benzo? That might help you relax so you could get some sleep anyway. Just don't overdo it with them, as that is a nasty addiction that can be life-threatening.
    Last edited by JustaChippa; 15-07-2009 at 06:35. Reason: misspelled word
     

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    #5
    i think it's because the last time my parents tried to get me off drugs i was prescribed methadone and i ended up abusing it. so i guess they're fed up with withdrawal medications. but geez this is harsh..

    i think i'm gonna take you up on the benzo idea. i'm prescribed xanax for panic disorder so i guess i'll just take extra but i don't even really get high off it since i've been on it for so long..

    goddddddd i want opiates .. actually at this point i'd even be ok with subs
     

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    #6
    ^ ta-da!
     

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    #7
    goddddddd i want opiates .. actually at this point i'd even be ok with subs
    Here lies the problem. It seems anything that can be abused you will abuse. So maybe you've backed yourself into the corner on this one by abusing methadone in the past(?). For the record I don't really agree with people being forced to take naltrexone (I used it to get clean by choice), but on the other hand I think if your parents are paying and taking care of you, then perhaps it may be the only way. Some people here on BL have gotten clean using Vivitrol and call it a godsend. The rest hate it, going in with the best intentions. I believe Suboxone should always be tried first.
    There is no way to get high on opiates (people here have used grams of heroin and got no buzz, which isnt a challenge BTW) so make the best of your situation and try and get clean.

    (still waiting for Tchort on this one )
     

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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by djsim View Post
    Here lies the problem. It seems anything that can be abused you will abuse. So maybe you've backed yourself into the corner on this one by abusing methadone in the past(?). For the record I don't really agree with people being forced to take naltrexone (I used it to get clean by choice), but on the other hand I think if your parents are paying and taking care of you, then perhaps it may be the only way. Some people here on BL have gotten clean using Vivitrol and call it a godsend. The rest hate it, going in with the best intentions. I believe Suboxone should always be tried first.
    There is no way to get high on opiates (people here have used grams of heroin and got no buzz, which isnt a challenge BTW) so make the best of your situation and try and get clean.

    (still waiting for Tchort on this one )
    I feel very sad reading this thread.

    You are being subjected to torture. Do you live in the US? Vivitrol has not been approved for use to treat Heroin addiction. Report the psychiatrist to your states licensing board for engaging in pseudo-scientific, abusive unapproved practices.

    I can't recall if it was found to work or not, but in another thread, a BL member was forced to get a Naltrexone depot pellet inserted under the skin. It was recommended that he get on Buprenorphine (Suboxone or Subutex), as that would outcompete the Naltrexone.

    Are you a minor? Do you live with your parents? Do you have a job? Money?

    I'd recommend seeking the help of a Buprenorphine doctor. Explain your situation, ask to be started on Buprenorphine maintenance immediately. Tell him this was done against your will, that you've tried Methadone in the past but it didn't work, that you are trying to comply with this forced treatment but it is causing you severe distress and you want to start immediately.
     

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    #9
    ^ yeh, I agree with everything except for reporting the doctor. We don't know the whole story. Everyone always says they were forced, but this can't always be the case. I know that in Australia the implant can be RXd legally under the Special Access Scheme (life-threatening illness with all other avenues exhausted), but T-Chort is right; there is no proof that it works. Theoretically it should work, but it's not that simple.
    IMO professional opinion you need sedatives;' benzos would be best. I'd actually DEMAND them from the psychiatrist, b/c there's no way he/she will knock you back if you threaten reporting to the FDA. The beznos should make it more comfortable. You're feeling so terrible b/c you need opiates to feel normal, but it generally subsides after 2-3 weeks IME. That's a long time, but if you can make it thru this shot (1, 3 or 6 months BTW??) you've made it thru the worst by far.
    You could demand bupe from the psychiatrist, but there's no way to reverse the injection, so I don't see the point in not making the best of a bad situation. This may be a blessing in disguise.

    I'd recommend seeking the help of a Buprenorphine doctor. Explain your situation, ask to be started on Buprenorphine maintenance immediately. Tell him this was done against your will, that you've tried Methadone in the past but it didn't work, that you are trying to comply with this forced treatment but it is causing you severe distress and you want to start immediately.
    bupe isn't going to do a thing with IM naltrexone in the system. No doc will treat anyone on naltrexone b/c death by respiratory depression is a clinical implication no doc will want to risk on their record
    Last edited by djsim; 15-07-2009 at 10:58.
     

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    #10
    give hell to the man.

    according to drugs.com, "Naltrexone injection can cause side effects that may impair your thinking or reactions." You just may be in luck for that high you've been seeking...
     

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    #11
    Bluelighter
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    Try Kratom?
     

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    #12
    If naltrexone is blocking opiate receptors the there's no point using Kratom.
    There is nothing that can be done, so poppy pods, kratom and 'proper' opiates all will be blocked
     

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    #13
    BL Ambassador Captain.Heroin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noescapinggravity View Post
    i think it's because the last time my parents tried to get me off drugs i was prescribed methadone and i ended up abusing it. so i guess they're fed up with withdrawal medications. but geez this is harsh..

    i think i'm gonna take you up on the benzo idea. i'm prescribed xanax for panic disorder so i guess i'll just take extra but i don't even really get high off it since i've been on it for so long..

    goddddddd i want opiates .. actually at this point i'd even be ok with subs
    How did you "abuse" methadone?
     

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    #14
    ^ Probably one of 2 ways;
    1. kept upping the dose to get/remain high
    2. Used take home doses all at once to get high
     

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    #15
    ^bingo
     

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    #16
    Bluelighter morphonorconic's Avatar
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    I think Buprenorphine would outcompete/overtake Naltrexone at any concentration, at least for a while. Bupe has significantly higher receptor binding affinity than Naltrexone.
     

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    #17
    I also think it's an awful thing to force someone to take naltrexone. It sounds like to me that you are a minor, so I would advise you to talk to your parents openly about your feeling regarding this. Try and understand from your parents point of view how this is hurting them. No parent ever expects their child to be a victim of addiction.

    I agree with djsim when he said that it seems like anything that can be abused, you will abuse. Continuing on with this mindset will put you at high risk of death at a young age. I knew two people like this in high school, and they are both dead. Good luck, and keep us updated!
     

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    #18
    Bluelighter Z Y G G Y's Avatar
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    It seems that u have an unbeatable need to get high. I think bupe will be your best option here. Maybe your parents can watch you take your daily bupe doses as it act in a similar fashion as a blocker meaning you won't get high on it. But at the same time it fills out your opiate receptors, decreases pain and cravings and possibly acts as an antidepressant. So maybe your parents can watch u take your daily bupe doses cuz once u take it u can't get high for another day or two. Talk to your parents about putting you on bupe maintenance.

    But for now there really isn't anything u can do other than getting some more benzos to help u until the shot wears off. Then ask your parents to put u on bupe as that is pretty much impossible to abuse for an opiate tolerant person. Maybe bu the time the shot wears off u'll be fine and won't need opiates. That would be a blessing in disguise.
     

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    #19
    Honestly, maybe you should use this 'gift' and take a break from the game for a while. If you're fiending this hard for them, you might wanna listen to your parents and stop. it could be the best decision of your life.
     

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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by PinK~cloud View Post
    Honestly, maybe you should use this 'gift' and take a break from the game for a while. If you're fiending this hard for them, you might wanna listen to your parents and stop. it could be the best decision of your life.
    I find it unbelivable that people with drug experience and most likely addiction experience themselves are telling someone to 'just stop'.

    Isn't it clear? "Addiction Is A Disease" isn't just an empty mantra for better treatment. It's the fucking truth. We have at least 80 years of abstinence-only treatments (and 40 years of antagonist treatments). These programs have almost a 100% failure rate. Addicts who remain opioid abstinent often, as addicts know and addiction historians and treatment personnel are afraid to admit, end up skidrow alcoholics, dead in a year or two.

    Something can be done about this, and I would hate to see another young person commit suicide on forced Naltrexone.

    'Just stop'. If only it were that simple.
     

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    #21
    ^^^

    I really don't know about the whole disease theory. I think its a personality trait developed by obsessive behavior, mixed with the addictive properties of the drug/behavior of choice.

    I decided one day to stop using opiates. I am no longer dependent on them, and am able to use them without abusing them. Do I have the disease? I heavily abused them for over a year and I enjoyed every moment of how they made me feel. One day I realized how it is effecting my life, and decided to stop. I started out with suboxone, but soon thought to myself "This is kicking the can down the road..." and stopped at 4mg. I was mentally strong enough to not have really any mental withdrawals.

    I believe, as with all behaviors, that one must find a way to cope in order to overcome that behavior or personality trait. If addiction is a disease, then 100% of the world population are addicts (both recessive and active addicts).
     

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    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown View Post
    ^^^

    I really don't know about the whole disease theory. I think its a personality trait developed by obsessive behavior, mixed with the addictive properties of the drug/behavior of choice.

    I decided one day to stop using opiates. I am no longer dependent on them, and am able to use them without abusing them. Do I have the disease? I heavily abused them for over a year and I enjoyed every moment of how they made me feel. One day I realized how it is effecting my life, and decided to stop. I started out with suboxone, but soon thought to myself "This is kicking the can down the road..." and stopped at 4mg. I was mentally strong enough to not have really any mental withdrawals.

    I believe, as with all behaviors, that one must find a way to cope in order to overcome that behavior or personality trait. If addiction is a disease, then 100% of the world population are addicts (both recessive and active addicts).
    Terminal / chronic addiction goes beyond the disease model as well- under the disease model, a metabolic stabilizer (Methadone, LAAM, Buprenorphine) should have the same effect on all mu agonist addicts. But they don't- the huge numbers of people who are polydrug users while in MMT/BMT, and especially those who continue to use Heroin/Oxycodone/ etc while in these programs buck this model of addiction at its core.

    'Just Stop' as a treatment modality has been tried for almost a century- usually in a 'stick and carrot' model (mostly stick). Life prison terms for possession, abusive 'treatment'/pseudo-science, cross-society intimidation (at school, work, church, hospital, everywhere- junkie. Bad junkie). Even the carrot; the sober living communities, feel good group therapy, CBT, etc- doesn't work.

    The op is showing signs of chronic addiction, even though they are most likely very young (if not a minor). It seems like 'regular' or 'vanilla' addicts are commonly recommended to go to MMT/BMT on here, but people showing signs of "terminal" "chronic" "hardcore" addiction are shunned with typical 'show some backbone' moral model propaganda that didn't work in the '20s and isn't going to work now.
     

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    #23
    I find it absolutely ridiculous that Suboxone isn't administered daily to addicts by pharmacists as is done in Australia. If someone has an addiction to alcohol you certainly wouldn't expect them to be able to ration a bottle of vodka, so why should it be any different with opiate addicts?
    Go on Suboxone and ask for your parents to administer your doses daily and to ensure it dissolves so you cannot abuse them. Or better yet, pick up daily doses from a pharmacy

    RE: ADDICTION AS A DISEASE
    It is and it isn't.

    Reasons why addiction is a disease:
    • Neurological changes; drug use causes changes in the brain which induce cravings. If you compared Parkinson's and addiction by this criteria, then addiction is a disease (both are diseases of the dopamine system)
    • Addiction is a progressive disorder; it gets worse with time, like cancer
    • People cannot just quit, so like cancer, it won't go away if you believe it will go away (ie you can't do the 12 steps to get rid of cancer )

    Why it isn't / may not be:
    • The whole chicken and the egg thing; does addiction cause these changes, or is addiction treating a defecit?
    • Behavioural component


    IMO it is a disease, and I have addiction issues myself, though I have learned to channel my addictive behaviour into positive things like work. The rpoblem is that it is a disease of the brain. We're still so far away from understanding exactly how addiction works, but it is clear it is a neurological isssue. We are so far from understanding the brain, it is kind of like running virus check software from 1995 to look for current viruses
    Last edited by djsim; 16-07-2009 at 04:27.
     

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    #24
    BL Ambassador Captain.Heroin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djsim View Post
    I find it absolutely ridiculous that Suboxone isn't administered daily to addicts by pharmacists as is done in Australia. If someone has an addiction to alcohol you certainly wouldn't expect them to be able to ration a bottle of vodka, so why should it be any different with opiate addicts?
    Go on Suboxone and ask for your parents to administer your doses daily and to ensure it dissolves so you cannot abuse them. Or better yet, pick up daily doses from a pharmacy
    You think it's ridiculous to not have a pharmacist dispense every N8?

    Do you know how busy pharmacists would be if that were true in America?

    I would NOT be willing to go in EVERY DAY for a N8. I can go score dope and be good for over 2 days (and that covers over 2 people) - so why should I have to go see a pharmacist every day, just to make sure I'm taking my "medicine properly"?

    That's kind of ass-backwards to me. Especially when people are sticking it under their tongues, waiting for the (busy) pharmacist to go away, then they run out, spit out the tablet, and save for diversion.

    That's only creating more harm - because whoever ends up IVing that - they are putting themseves at a greater risk than those who IV suboxone out of the bottle - and know their stash is still clean and sanitary.

    Do you think the pharmacists I see here in America would have the time (let alone desire) to give every addict their N8 every day by hand-feeding it to them? I mean, surely Australia is A LITTLE different from this horrible country I live in. Over here, if pharmacists had to dispense N8 by N8 to people - the system would suck. It would suck a lot harder than it does now.

    Whether you think of people who take buprenorphine without a prescription as "good" or "bad" people, it's important to realize that everyone takes buprenorphine for the same reason - mostly because opiate addiction isn't all that great, and withdrawals are horrid.

    If someone wanted to stop being addicted, and wanted to use suboxone to help them do that? What does it matter if they have a prescription or not?

    If a pharmacist in the US handed out N8 by N8 to people, there would be many who would return to heroin; primarily because they do not have health insurance or the qualifications to qualify for free Suboxone. Do you think, just because a pharmacist isn't there to put the pill under the tongue for the person (...like they can't do it themselves...) that they shouldn't be able to get help for themselves?

    A reason why BMT is an attractive option for opiate addicts is that it gives them privacy, it gives the feeling they're not being judged, and it gives them a certainty of freedom - a freedom to sleep in in the morning and not have to "miss" your bupe dose because a pharmacist is only there between said hours to dispense buprenorphine for you. If BMT was like MMT, it wouldn't be desired as much.

    And due do this, many people would return to heroin.

    Is this what you want? A society where people are addicted, and the only ones who aren't are those who can afford private health care, and have the self discipline to show up at the pharmacy at an every day basis?

    Do you know how few people would get clean?
     

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    #25
    Actually, you're right. The health system in the USA is so fucked up that it wouldn't work this way. In Australia you pay between $5 and $30 a week for whatever dose of Suboxone you are on, so private health insurance never comes into the picture. The USA health system is more focused on selling the drugs. The attitude seems to be; dose the addicts with suboxone, and as long as their month is paid for, "who cares what they do with it?"

    I think my argument still stands; how can you expect an addict to ration the drug they are addicted to? I never said monitoring patient dosing was a perfect scenario (many ppl do divert their bupe before it dissolves as we don;t have the time to make ppl wait for 15 minutes), but IMO it is a much better idea than sending a patient away with a month of opiates and expecting it to last a month. IMO it should start out with patient monitoring, then progress to take home doses.

    In terms of harm reduction, it probably is worst for people IVing their bupe due to oral bacteria from diverted bupe, but it can also be argued that a lot of the studies from the Case Studies thread may have been prevented had the patient been guided away from IVing their bupe in the first place.

    A reason why BMT is an attractive option for opiate addicts is that it gives them privacy, it gives the feeling they're not being judged, and it gives them a certainty of freedom - a freedom to sleep in in the morning and not have to "miss" your bupe dose because a pharmacist is only there between said hours to dispense buprenorphine for you. If BMT was like MMT, it wouldn't be desired as much.
    See this is where my knowledge doesn't extend. I've never been on a bupe maintenance program, so all I can bring to the table on this is my professional experience. But I definitely do understand what you are saying, and to an extent, I agree. I can definitely see it's a pain in the ass to dose every second day, but in keeping with my belief that addiction is a disease, I strongly believe that because this is the case, supervised dosing is entirely necessary for the very reason bupe is RXd; because the patient cannot control their opiate use. It's undoubtedly annoying, but IMO it's a small inconvenience if it will help you stay on a BPM program and can clearly guide patients in the right direction, much more so than sending a new bupe patient out with 30 days of subs and telling them not to abuse it.
    Last edited by djsim; 16-07-2009 at 06:17.
     

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