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    Kratom powder dosage? 
    #1
    Bluelighter Harrisment's Avatar
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    After reading about it for years I recently took the plunge and ordered some superfine powder of bali kratom leaf from one of the more respected online vendors. I'm looking forward to trying it but I have no idea how much to start with. I have a pretty consistent and long running 20-30 mg/day hydro habit. Trying to determine if I should just try a teaspoon, a tablespoon, a fucking cup, etc. Thanks!
     

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    #2
    Bluelight Crew jackie jones's Avatar
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    Eight to ten grams is a moderate dose for someone with a slight opiate habit, such as yourself.
     

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    #3
    Be sure to consume the powder on an empty stomach. Waiting 3 to 5 hours after your last meal should be sufficient. The method that I prefer is usually called toss and wash. I usually weigh out the dose in increments that are easy to swallow, usually 2 to 3g at a time, then put a bit of orange juice in my mouth, funnel it in (wax paper works well), followed by putting more OJ in my mouth then swallowing.

    If the kratom works somewhat well for you I would recommend purchasing bali kratom enhanced with full spectrum extract; you need less plant material to get to the same effects and it is more economical.
     

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    #4
    Bluelighter Harrisment's Avatar
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    Thanks guys. I guess I will need to buy a scale then to get an accurate dosage?
     

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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Harrisment View Post
    Thanks guys. I guess I will need to buy a scale then to get an accurate dosage?
    There are a few dosage guides online that utilize teaspoons as a form of measurement. I always use a scale, however, so I can't really help you in that area. Scales are cheap, though, and you can use them for other things. You would only really need a scale accurate to .01g and those are pretty cheap online or at head shops.

    EROWID has a little blurb about dosing via teaspoon, but it isn't clear about whether it is referring to mostly crushed leaf or finely powdered leaf: http://www.erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom_dose.shtml

    Google seems to find a few sites that have charts for approximate conversions from gram to teaspoon for a simple search using the terms "teaspoon kratom dosage".
     

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    #6
    Bluelighter Harrisment's Avatar
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    Thanks empero, I'll get a scale and try around 8g for my initial dose. I'm also curious if in your experience you've had any insomnia issues when using kratom? I read that some people have had that problem, so for that reason I'm planning on waiting until the weekend to try it for the first time. The only really bad w/d symptom I have when I skip my hydro dose at night is that I get horrible insomnia, so I don't want the kratom to make that even worse. Thanks again for your input.

    Also, what should I expect as far as effects? The thing I love about hydrocodone is that it energizes me and makes me much more comfortable and chatty in social settings. Should a low dose of kratom have a similar effect, or will it be more of a sedating feeling?
     

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    #7
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    "Oral Kratom Dosages (dried leaf)
    Enhanced (Extract Added)
    Threshold 1 gram
    Light 1-2 grams
    Common 2-3 grams
    Strong 3-6 grams

    Oral Kratom Dosages (dried leaf)
    Super Grade
    Threshold 1-2 grams
    Light 2-4 grams
    Common 3-5 grams
    Strong 4-8 grams

    Oral Kratom Dosages (dried leaf)
    Premium Grade
    Threshold 2-4 grams
    Light 3-5 grams
    Common 4-10 grams
    Strong 8-15 grams

    Oral Kratom Dosages (dried leaf)
    Low Potency (very uncommon as of 200
    Threshold 3-7 grams
    Light 5-10 grams
    Common 10-20 grams
    Strong 20-50 grams

    Onset : 5-15 minutes
    Duration : 2-5 hours
    Normal After Effects : 3-6 hours"

    Those are erowids numbers at least... I think they will guide you nicely.
     

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    #8
    Greenlighter
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    ^ Would the OP's "super fine powder" dosing be the same as that of dried leaf..?
     

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    #9
    Bluelighter Seattle_Stranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robtuse View Post
    ^ Would the OP's "super fine powder" dosing be the same as that of dried leaf..?
    I was thinking the exact same. 8g of an enhanced powder could be an outrageous dose!! Myself, I think I have a bit of an opiate tolerance, nothing crazy, but I religiously take 11g of regular commercial powdered leaf and that seems to be my sweet spot. It's pretty consistent potency from a certain Mr. I buy from.

    I also always potentiate with 400mg cemetidine about an hour before I consume the kratom. I also wait at least 2 days between doses, sometimes 3, NEVER 2 days in a row, and never re-dose. I'm extremely strict with myself when it comes to addictive stuff like this.

    Even so I still feel like a week without it would suck.
     

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    #10
    Bluelighter The_Jesus's Avatar
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    Keep dosing until you've found a comfortable spot. Its hard to determine kratom dosage because of the difference in quality. And it's hard to really tell if kratom is quality or not. Everybody says their shit is the highest grade, purest, super premium whatever.... but its all the same...
     

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    #11
    it really doesnt matter...each person is different...stomach being empty or not only effects nausea...and thats when you get to high levels...its all trial and error
     

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    #12
    Bluelighter RedBaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by regfairfield View Post
    it really doesnt matter...each person is different...stomach being empty or not only effects nausea...and thats when you get to high levels...its all trial and error
    If I've eaten in the past 5 hours, then I get a diminished effect from my kratom dose. The optimal time for me is when my stomach is growling and obviously empty. Not saying you're wrong, just sharing my experiences.
     

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    This should hel your dosing question. I went on a interesting tangent at the end :) 
    #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by phatass View Post
    "Oral Kratom Dosages (dried leaf)
    Enhanced (Extract Added)
    Threshold 1 gram
    Light 1-2 grams
    Common 2-3 grams
    Strong 3-6 grams

    Oral Kratom Dosages (dried leaf)
    Super Grade
    Threshold 1-2 grams
    Light 2-4 grams
    Common 3-5 grams
    Strong 4-8 grams

    Oral Kratom Dosages (dried leaf)
    Premium Grade
    Threshold 2-4 grams
    Light 3-5 grams
    Common 4-10 grams
    Strong 8-15 grams

    Oral Kratom Dosages (dried leaf)
    Low Potency (very uncommon as of 2008)
    Threshold 3-7 grams
    Light 5-10 grams
    Common 10-20 grams
    Strong 20-50 grams

    Onset : 5-15 minutes
    Duration : 2-5 hours
    Normal After Effects : 3-6 hours"

    Those are erowids numbers at least... I think they will guide you nicely.
    I saw this on Erowid as well. Ive been trying to figure out these vague names.
    Here is what I came up with in relation to names given in this dosage chart compared to names given on vendors' sites. Note: I will obviously not be naming vendors. But let me know if you think my comparisons are right for this chart or if I am way off. Please keep in mind, this list is just my opinion but I do welcome debate on this topic or alternative ideas. I just want us all to obtain the best and safest experience from Kratom as we possibly can. :)

    The list below in "Oral Kratom Dosages (dried leaf)" And under each label I will give an example of what I believe to be in the classification followed by a description of the specific Kratom.
    Note: the amount, in grams and ounces that I have listed are the minimum amounts of each product available on a certain site


    • Enhanced (Extract Added)
      --"Common Dose"=2-3g--
      -Ultra Enhanced Indo (UEI) Powder - 3g
      "Our (UEI) [is] premium Indonesian Kratom leaf. Finely powdered, enhanced with ultra-pure alkaloids [at a ratio of 1250mg:25g]"
      (IMO, by seeing this ratio, we can deduce, at least for this UEI, each gram has ~50mg of the full spectrum of Kratom alkaloids)
    • Super Grade
      --"Common Dose"=3-5g--
      -Super Malaysian Kratom Powder - 10g (.36oz)
      "This is the rare Super Green Malaysian Kratom... very potent product. We think that [you will be able to confirm its] quality."
    • Premium Grade
      --"Common Dose"=4-10g--
      -Powdered Premium Bali Kratom - 25g (.9oz)
      It is just described as a premium version of their Bali Kratom.
    • Low Potency
      --"Common Dose"=10-20 grams--
      -Crushed Bali Kratom - 50g (1.78oz)
      "Coarsely crushed commercial Bali Kratom leaf... Includes stems and veins."


    "Common Doses" provided by Erowid's dosing chart

    But now, we have many other types of Kratom and extract blends that are not mentioned on Erowid

    • Extra Enhanced Maeng Da - qty not given
      "A blend of our Maeng Da with a full-spectrum extract produced with laboratory-grade consistency. Around 2.5g of this incense provides a unique, long lasting aroma that extract aficionados will appreciate. Our extra enhanced blends contain 75mg of extract per gram of leaf."
    • IE Enhanced Malaysian Blend -10g (.36oz)
      An apparent mixture of Malaysian Kratom Leaf and our Indonesian extract. "20% extract by weight"
    • Full Spectum 15x Extract Powder - 5g
      "This excellent full spectrum extract is a highly refined, talc-like powder and containing a concentrated blend of Kratom alkaloids."
    • Full Spectrum Alkaloid Tincture - 225 mg alkaloids (3 mL)
      "The full spectrum of alkaloids present in Kratom has been isolated, purified to the highest level, and captured in this tincture. 3 mL of this FST concentrates the Kratom power equivalent to 10 full grams of "15x" Kratom extract offered by other sites. (It actually takes over 225 grams of Kratom leaf to make just 3 mL of this tincture).



    Plus we have many many other types like red vein, yellow malay, green malay, deveined, etc. But this is the best I could come up with using my own personal experience. Out of all listed above, I really enjoyed the Tincture, I used it and dropped like 15-20 drops of the liquid into a little medicine cup, then mixed with water, and took it like a shot. then did a rinse and took that shot. Definitely noticed a difference in mood, happiness, euphoria, and pain relief within only 20 minutes. I actually had a nice buzz going. But keep in mind, these full spectrum tinctures have alcohol in them, just like the liquid isolates. A few times I dosed with the FST I got a mad stomach ache, but I still felt the effects. I also like the 15x full spectrum powder. But due to my tolerance, it takes about 3-5g of the powder to really get a nice buzz. So I usually just mix it with a chocolate shake, or do a toss n wash. I will never make tea. My next experiment will be with an enhanced version of malay. Its a nice mixture of finely ground malay leaves mixed with a few grams of ultra enhanced indo (the good ish with ~50mg of full spectrum alkaloids per gram. I would also like to try the Extra Enhanced Maeng Da, seeing as how its got ~75mg of FS alkaloids per gram.

    Hope this helps. and again, This is just my opinion and my experiences. Other people may feel differently. I tried to provide listings with more than just a couple strains to better represent the market. I would REALLY like to try the 7-OHM Mitragynine Blend but at the source i found its only a 1/2 Gram of powder (though you can add more) but its really expensive. Here is there description "7-OHM Mitragynine Blend is one of the most concentrated and purest full spectrum Kratom extracts available to date. This Blend contains 85% alkaloids by weight, of that 45% is 7-Hydroxy-Mitragynine, and 55% of the total alkaloid mass is Mitragynine. Just 1/2 gram of 7-OHM Mitragynine Blend extract contains Approximately 10 "incense" portions, and is fully equivalent to 15 grams of our 15x"

    Note: A source comparing morphine to three major alkaloids of Kratom is as follows:
    Mitragynine = 0.26 times as potent morphine therefore-20mg of Mitragynine = approx 5.2mg of Morphine
    7-Hydroxymitragynine (7-OHM) = 10.71 times as potent morphine therefore-20mg of 7-Hydroxymitragynine = approx 214.2mg of Morphine
    Mitragynine pseudoindoxyl (MPI) = 30.67 times as potent morphine therefore- 20mg of (MPI) should = approx 613.4mg of Morphine


    {Edit}
    "PKi values:
    morphine: 8.46 @ mu, 6.38 @ delta, 6.33 @ kappa (98.5%, 0.8%, 0.7% )
    mitragynine: 8.14 @ mu, 7.22 @ delta, 5.96 @ kappa (88.7%, 10.7%, 0.6% )
    MPI: 10.06 @ mu , 8.52 @ delta, 7.10 @ kappa (97.1%, 2.8%, 0.1% )
    7-OHM: 7.87 @ mu, 6.81 @ delta, 6.91 @ kappa (83.3%, 6.6%, 10.1% )"
    {/EDIT}


    So if we go by this one we can approximate the supposed equagesic morphine content within this 1/2 gram product So we essentially have a 500mg mixture.

    If 80% is alkaloids then 100mg of the total 500mg is a mixture of (most likely plain finely ground indo or bali) therefor we cannot determine the alkaloid content of that 100mg. However for the other 400mg, based on what they say (assuming it is accurate) 45% of 400 is 180mg and 55% of 400 is 220mg. Therefore this 500mg (7OHM) product is may contain 180mg of 7-Hydroxymitragynine and 220mg of Mitragynine. Not counting that extra 20% (or 100mg) this would seem to mean that 400mg of this product (assuming theses notes about the alkaloid morphine ratio are true) then the 180mg of 7-Hydroxymitragynine in the product would be = 1927.8mg of Morphine whereas the 220mg of Mitragynine would be = 57.2mg meaning that 400mg of this 500mg 1/2g product we be the equivilant of 1985mg of Morphine. then when you factor in the last 100mg of the powder, knowing that even that has alkaloid content to a degree, this expensive 1/2 gram 7OHM product, if taken at once, has the potential to be as powerful as 2000mg of morphine. IF this really was in fact the case, then the price is quite justified IMO because.... damn, I went way off topic. I hope the beginning at least somewhat helped answer your question about dosing with powder. And I hope you guys enjoy the 7OHM calculations. Im mad tired now its 4:40AM. haha
    Sorry about going way off topic. But Please do not delete or snip these calculations. I think they could be very useful to someone in the future, and the top half of my post answers the original question :)
    Last edited by GeisterxFahrer; 26-08-2011 at 10:54. Reason: Found lab rat data
     

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    #14
    Bluelight Crew effie's Avatar
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    Thank you for all the information, very detailed! For future, posts can be quite hard to read when they have different colours and styls of text within them (red is usually only used by mods for editing posts anyway..)

    This is an old thread though so I'm going to close it.. people will still be able to read it though and find it if using the search engine
     

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