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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Best euphoric drug = Stablon

It it very much like hydrocodone, but I would not say that it is the "best euphoric drug evvaarr!" - just as I and most people would not say that hydrocodone is the "best euphoric drug evvaarr!". That's just silly. Unlike hydrocodone, Tianeptine seems to invariably cause pretty severe hostility and irritability - at least for me - as well as sweating and considerable amounts of compulsive, nervous energy; but at least there's no nausea. Like hydrocodone, there's often a dirty feeling to the high, a feeling of there being something not quite right or that the experience could be better if only... what? It's a feeling that's hard to explain. Tianeptine also diminishes one's facility with language, making self-expression a bit more time-consuming and frustrating than it otherwise would be.

Tolerance to the euphoric effects develops VERY rapidly. It has a very short half-life. And in higher doses - especially when mixing with GABA for some reason - causes severe confusion and dysphoria. (At least for me.)

By the end of my Tianeptine therapy I was popping some 6 or 8 12.5 mg pills; they hardly did anything at that point besides increase my body temperature and make me depressed and irritable.

I give Tianeptine 4 out of 10 stars. At least in so far as I am rating it as a recreational drug.

In terms of its beneficial effects on the mind as a whole (i.e. stimulating neurotrophic hormones and promoting synaptogenesis), well, I don't have a rating because there are too many confounds for me to make a definitive statement about how Tianeptine affected me in that regard, but from what I have read it may have the potential to be quite the nootropic.
 
opioid-like my ass!
just use a real drug if you want a good high, not finding some stupid anti-depressant that feels "good".
also, the reason you think this drug is as good as opioids is because you have only tried codeine and tramadol.
try hydromorphone, oxymorphone, morphine, fentanyl, diacetylmorphine, oxycodone, etc... and come and say it is as good as those.
 
I am just trying to see how on this green earth you can even almost compare Stablon to Opiates..
Not even close to being the same feeling. Yeah, Stablon made me feel pretty wired the first time I took it, but after that- absolutely nothing Euphoric in any way.
I am not proud of it but I am a recovering pain med addict. The feelings that I got from taking pain meds - Real ones, not Tramadol etc- were that I was completely normal with feelings again. Possibly euphoria which to me being a depressed person seemed to be what normal should feel like.

Anyway, just wanted to clarify that Stablon is a nice med, but not even close to Euphoric or an opiate. Dont go running out buying it thinking it is going to make you feel great unless you truly have depression and take it over a period of time.

"Very much like Hydrocodone" ---WAT????? Comon man, please!! Silly!
 
This should be really cool to take. It basically does the same thing to serotonin as benzos do to GABA. It simply enhances the way serotonin works, verses SSRI's which just flood the brain with it. I imagine this would give the quasi-opiate like experience due to the sharpness of it's effects, but not anywhere in the same ballpark in prescribed doses.
 
This should be really cool to take. It basically does the same thing to serotonin as benzos do to GABA. It simply enhances the way serotonin works, verses SSRI's which just flood the brain with it. I imagine this would give the quasi-opiate like experience due to the sharpness of it's effects, but not anywhere in the same ballpark in prescribed doses.
apparently it decreases SE activity. enhances the re-uptake of.
 
apparently it decreases SE activity. enhances the re-uptake of.

That's what I said.

Benzos decrease GABA activity due to increasing the efficiency of GABA.

Tianeptine (Stablon) decreases serotonin activity due to increasing the efficiency of serotonin.

Edit: By increasing the uptake (efficiency) of serotonin, less is sitting unused in the brain.

I am putting this in layman's terms.
 
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Does it have similar mentally dulling effects to SSRIs?

Also- I bet it's not as euphoric as MDMA. Or opiates that are decent (codeine and tramadol don't really count here, codeine kinda does if your tolerance is low). Or amphetamine, or coke, or crack, LSD, mushrooms or basically any street drug. From the sound of this thread it's a good anti-depressent, and kinda fun, but not by any measure (except the OP's of course) the best euphoric drug. But it does sound interesting.
 
No, it doesn't have the same effects as SSRI's.
SSRI's flood the brain, but do not in crease efficiency of serotonin, leading to that dull feeling, and fake wall of happiness.
Tianeptine (Stablon) increases serotonin efficiency by causing the brain to use more of the serotonin properly that is already there, not overloading synapses and dulling uptake like SSRI's
 
Seriously, does anyone read anything here? You will not feel anything like an opiate. If you want to feel like you do on an opiate go to the doc and get some vicodin. You will feel much better than you do on Stablon and it is cheaper too.
I am just trying to help those out here that think that this is some magic opiate pill that is legal in Europe but not here. That is not the case. You will spend 80 bucks on a month or more on Tianeptine and end up saying this sucks, didnt do anything for me and need to find someone to buy your extra pills. Are you depressed? If so it might help you in a few weeks. If you are not depressed, it will be just like taking really good flavored pills. Nothing will happen.

Read up on Amineptine. Not sure about the spelling. Now this is a different story. In my completely uneducated undoctor like brain I would think this is something you can take if you are depressed or not depressed and feel something good. You will also have spontaneous erections and possible orgasms, but hey, I think it would be cool to re live middle school now and then :) No seriously though, this stuff is almost impossible to find. Most countries made it illegal I think. Now if this was able to be bought on the net or prescribed by a doc, I would say yes we have a euphoric AD on our hands.
 
Amineptine = 181 addictive cases. 1978-1988 18.1 people addicted per year in study cases.
Tianeptine = 141 addictive cases. 1989-2004 9.4 people addicted per year in study cases.

Neither one of these are even close to being that good of anything recreational.

They are a great mood boost, this is what I'm saying. To feel better does not mean I want to get trashed.

Both can give a nice kick in high doses, but they do not have the same effect.
And trust me, Junkies don't feel better on placebo. So, it does something.
 
I've always been curious about using it for short terms in between rolls to increase effectiveness of mdma?

any thoughts on this?
 
Amineptine = 181 addictive cases. 1978-1988 18.1 people addicted per year in study cases.
Tianeptine = 141 addictive cases. 1989-2004 9.4 people addicted per year in study cases.

Neither one of these are even close to being that good of anything recreational.

Amineptine is pretty recreational in my personal opinion. May not be very addictive, but definitely recreational. I wouldn't know about tianeptine, though.
 
What?

I see what you are saying. I'm not confused.

I am simply trying to get everyone familiar, as this is not as simple as some think.
but what makes you think the postsynpatic cell is more effecient in its use of remaining SE? have you read that somewhere? from what i have read, this drug is not similar at all to how benzos affect gaba. benzos cause an increase in postsynaptic (gaba) neuron firing. from what i have read hear and on wiki (not great sources, i know, and i am certainly still confused about this drug), the postsynaptic SE neuron would be triggered and fire less because of stablon.
 
but what makes you think the postsynpatic cell is more effecient in its use of remaining SE? have you read that somewhere? from what i have read, this drug is not similar at all to how benzos affect gaba. benzos cause an increase in postsynaptic (gaba) neuron firing. from what i have read hear and on wiki (not great sources, i know, and i am certainly still confused about this drug), the postsynaptic SE neuron would be triggered and fire less because of stablon.

Yes, it increases the use of what is already there. That is pretty much the only thing I said was alike.
 
First of all, I do realize that this is an old thread, and I apologize for resurrecting it, but a few of the last posts really kind of irked me..


I am a psychopharmacologist and the founder and director of Oracle Laboratories and NeuroPsych Laboratories, and have been working with Tianeptine and some structurally related compounds in vitro and in vivo human and animal models during the past eight months or so (hence my stumbling across this thread, while browsing “recreational use” Tianeptine threads), so perhaps I can clarify a few points.




Neurotransmitter Reuptake Enhancers work by possessing a binding affinity for the specific neurotransmitter transporter molecule. In the case of Tianeptine, it has long been theorized that Tianeptine’s principal pharmacological mechanism of action is to bind to the Serotonin Transporter (SERT) thereby enhancing the reuptake of serotonin into the pre-synaptic neuron, effectively leading to a decrease in extracellular concentrations of serotonin, and therefore a decrease in serotonin neurotransmission.


However, our research has shown that Tianeptine does not really possess any noteworthy affinity for the Serotonin Transporter, which calls into question it’s “Reuptake Enhancer” action. Examining our EMRI (Electroconductive Magnetic Resonance Imaging) Scanner images, we have not found any evidence that Tianeptine either increases or decreases extracellular concentrations of serotonin in the cortico-limbic structures of the mammalian brain, and Tianeptine did not display any noteworthy long-term effect on the serotonin pathway. Though, Tianeptine does display minor affinity for some of the other monoamine transporters. Our proposed action of Tianeptine on serotonin uptake is that it’s action is indirect, and occurs secondarily, via alteration of AMPA and NMDA glutamate receptor affinity, and by the potentiation of the Hippocampal CA1 pathway.




Using phosphor-florescent-crystallization of target receptors using EMRI Imaging, we have confirmed a direct affinity for the mammalian mu-opioid receptor as well as the delta-opioid receptors in both rodent and human models, and we have confirmed Tianeptine’s action as a moderate-strength agonist of the mu-opioid receptors, and have confirmed a considerably weaker agonist action at the delta opioid receptors. Obviously, this is the only logical action that explains Tianeptine’s opioid-like effects that recreational users experience.


I also want to clarify a few comments made by Psychedelic Jay, including:


This should be really cool to take. It basically does the same thing to serotonin as benzos do to GABA. It simply enhances the way serotonin works, verses SSRI's which just flood the brain with it. I imagine this would give the quasi-opiate like experience due to the sharpness of it's effects, but not anywhere in the same ballpark in prescribed doses.


I really am quite confused by this comment and I feel that others who have posted here are probably confused as well.


Firstly, benzodiazepines do not affect the synaptic or neuronal concentration of GABA at all, nor do they “enhance” the way that GABA works. (As this would require a binding affinity for the GABA transporter, or require an action as a pre-synaptic GABA-releasing agent. - Neither of which any benzodiazepine possesses). Benzos do not have any affect on GABA’s binding affinity for the ionotropic GABA-a receptors, or the metabotropic GABA-b receptors. Nor do benzodiazepines have any affect on synaptic or pre-synaptic neuronal concentrations of GABA.


Benzodiazepines simply mimic GABA and elicit a response from the GABA receptors since benzos possess binding affinity for the GABA receptors (almost solely the ionotropic GABA-a receptors) - specifically, the Benzodiazepine-Binding-Site on the GABA-a receptors. (The same binding site that the “z drugs” bind to, however, distinct from the site where the barbituates and methocarbamates bind to).


An example of a serotonergic drug that affects the Serotonergic System the way that benzodiazepines affect the GABA System would be a 5-HT receptor agonist like Buspirone (name brand Buspar), for example (which functions as a 5-HT1a serotonin receptor agonist, like benzos function as GABA receptor agonists). Like benzodiazepines mimic GABA and elicit a response from the GABA receptors, Buspirone mimics serotonin and elicits a response from the serotonin receptors. Neither have any affect on the neurotransmitters themselves, however.


My point, is that benzodiazepines do not affect GABA’s biosythesis, metabolism, binding affinity, release, reuptake, nor it’s synaptic or pre-synaptic concentrations, as implied by a few of the posts in this thread. - Benzos simply mimic GABA and elicit an agonist response from the GABA receptors like GABA itself does.




As mentioned above, our research has demonstrated that Tianeptine actually does not possess any noteworthy direct action on the Serotonin Transporter, nor does it affect spontaneous firing rates of serotonergic neurons, despite the previous theories that suggested Tianeptine functioned primarily as a Serotonin Reuptake Enhancer, it is worth noting that Tianeptine’s affinity for NMDA glutamate pathways may contribute to it’s perceived action as a drug that decreases extracellular concentrations of serotonin.




In general, Neurotransmitter Reuptake Inhibitors and Neurotransmitter Reuptake Enhancers, specifically relating to depression, both enhance the action of the neurotransmitter in question, although in very different and opposite ways. Reuptake Inhibitors prevent the monoamine transporter in question from reuptaking the neurotransmitter back into the pre-synaptic neuron, thereby flooding the post-synaptic neuron. In contrast, Reuptake Enhancers assist the neurotransmitter transporter, effectively increasing the reuptake of the neurotransmitter in question, back into the pre-synaptic neuron, allowing higher concentrations of the neurotransmitter in question to accumulate in the pre-synaptic neuron, which makes more of that specific neurotransmitter available for neuronal neurotransmission to the receiving, post-synaptic neuron. So, perhaps this is what Psychedelic Jay means by a Serotonin Reuptake Enhancer “enhancing serotonin efficiency”.




No, it doesn't have the same effects as SSRI's.
SSRI's flood the brain, but do not in crease efficiency of serotonin, leading to that dull feeling, and fake wall of happiness.
Tianeptine (Stablon) increases serotonin efficiency by causing the brain to use more of the serotonin properly that is already there, not overloading synapses and dulling uptake like SSRI's




My research into this odd class of drugs has led to the development of a few novel structural relatives of Tianeptine, which so far have yielded two almost entirely opioid compounds (functioning as mu-opioid receptor and delta-opioid receptor agonists) - As well as a selective kappa-opioid receptor antagonist. (VERY useful in the treatment of depression). - As well as two compounds which function as selective Dopamine / Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitors / Dopamine Receptor (D2, D3, D4) Agonists in rodent models. (Not much different in pharmacological action than Amineptine).




As far as sharing personal experiences with Tianeptine, I surprisingly have only ever experimented with dosages as high as 60mg of the sodium salt. I suffer from severe Generalized Anxiety Disorder and Panic Attack Disorder, so the effect that I most notice is an anxiolytic effect, which is quite different than the anxiolytic effect of benzos, since there is no sedation. The anxiolytic effect that I experience from Tianeptine is very short-lived, as others have mentioned.


I also definitely experience an unmistakable opioid effect at 60mg as well, however, the mu-opioid agonization is far too weak for me to call Tianeptine very euphoric, since I am used to very strong full-agonist opiates, and because I dose daily with Buprenorphine which undoubtedly suppresses most of the mu-opioid action of Tianeptine.


I have, however, experimented with doses of up to 200mg of the hydrobromide salt of Proxoleptine (one of the novel and solely opioid compounds that we have produced as a structural relative of Tianeptine), which is much more reminiscent of a fully synthetic opioid like Fentanyl or Pethidine, even when I have previously dosed with Buprenorphine.
 
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