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    JWH-018 - First Time - My Nightmare 
    #1
    disclaimer: I'm going to be posting this report on a few forums and submitting to erowid/lycaeum as well. I didn't see any trip reports describing this severe a reaction before so I really want to just make sure the info is out there. Please be safe guys!

    So I got the order of JWH-018, a synthetic cannabinoid, in a few days ago, and I was eager to try it. I have my milligram scale, I've read reports on dosage, etc, I should be prepared right?

    So, the first time I tried this, I took 1mg, wanted to see if I had an extreme reaction at low doses. Didn't feel a thing, at all. Felt like the chem was safe to try at higher doses.

    So, a few days later, I measure out 5mg on my scale, put the tiny bit of powder in a capsule, and down the hatch; followed by what was an uneventful hour, during which I felt like, "this is it huh? can't feel anything." I would eat these words later in the hospital.

    I apologize but I will not be able to give standard timestamps for what was happening, time was nearly impossible to tell.

    At about the 1 hour mark, I began to feel disoriented. Not "high" disoriented, but legitimately like I was having some sort of cognitive issue. My skin felt burning hot, and I noticed that my heart was beating very fast (I used the stopwatch on my phone and it was around 160-170 bpm. Not life threatening, but way higher than my usual 60 bpm. But underlying all of this, and most profound, was an absolute cold fear that I was going to die. An irrational, couldn't talk myself out of it fear that I simultaneously knew was probably unnecessary, yet which I couldn't stop. Terror. Absolute panic.

    I don't know when, but at one point I put the bag of the chem in my pocket and texted my roommate that I needed to be taken to the hospital. I then called him and told him I needed to go, couldn't tell him why, and that I wasn't kidding. How I was able to function enough to do this I don't know.

    I tried talking to him on the way there to explain the situation, my internal monologue was fine, but I couldn't form sentences or thoughts when I tried to speak. I know that some people find these effects desireable, but I've seen people on pot, they can speak, even if they sound stupid. I knew that words were barely coming out of my mouth, and I was losing motor function, severely. At this point, too, my drymouth went from inconvenient to painful.

    The negative effects peaked as I got into the ER. I felt as though I was near total loss of motor control. My muscles felt as though they were moving of their own accord, like an infant. My limbs would shake violently, the muscles in my legs would clench to the point of pain, and I could only stop it by focusing all my attention on the offending limb. You'd have thought I had parkinson's or cerebral paulsy just by looking at me.

    Throughout all of this, I had one underlying fear: what if this is permanent? I've done a lot of other drugs, some only once, some with a degree of regularity, but all of them plants/medicines with a well documented history of use and effects, well understood dosing. This stuff is essentially uncharted territory, there was no reason to assume that the effects would fade or not.

    Luckily for me they did. After I actually went into the ER and was hooked up to a monitor, my friend said I looked like I had a bit more control, and a while after he said so, I felt so as well. I was forming sentences better and the extreme muscle spasm was subsiding.

    After explaining the situation to the doctor and giving him the chem to look at, and listening to him ask me why I didn't just smoke pot, and essentially (rightfully) call me a moron, he explained that I just needed to be monitored for a while. It was about then that an extreme lethargy/sleepiness fell over me. To be honest, I think this was the intended effect of the drug, an extreme relaxation, but it was hard to tell because I didn't get there from a baseline, but from the cliff. I was eventually discharged, went home, and slept it off.

    Today, the morning after, I do still feel a real cloudiness in my head, like I've taken allergy medicine, which will pass I'm sure.

    So where did I go wrong? I took what I felt was a long time (about a month) getting information about the research chemicals I was interested in. I also spent the same amount of time verifying vendors and their products. At this point, I'm still relatively certain that I received the product I paid for, with no adulterants. The issue was dosage and my personal chemistry.

    If I had two braincells to rub together, I would have spaced the dosage instead of taking it all at once. I have gone through this drawn out dosage procedure with everything else I've ever tried, so why I was reckless last night I don't know. I wasn't feeling angsty or particularly depressed, it was just a momentary lack of judgement. I think part of the reason is that, since childhood, I have had it hammered into my head that opiates (my occasional DoC) are dangerous and that you can both become addicted to or overdose on them. I've never had an issue with opis. I didn't have that healthy fear/respect for this chemical, so my anxiousness to try something new wasn't checked by anything. Had this been an opiate, I would have taken 1mg and waited 45 minutes to an hour, then another 1mg and waited, etc. I may have still had an unpleasant experience, but not like it was. I'm convinced that that crazy effects I had were the result of an overdose (which, unlike with THC, is possible with synthetic cannabinoids).

    Either way, the doctor took the chemical, (the bag had the full name on it and he wanted to look it up), and I didn't want/expect it returned. I will be tossing the other RC's as well, I'm not at all ready to go that route again.

    Just as an afterthought, if not for the legal aspects, I'd rather have ODed on an opiate or some known, common drug. At least then I would have known that 1) this happens and doctors know how to deal with it and 2) these effects will not be permanent. The doctors baffled looks and my ignorance of the chemical contributed to my fears at the moment.
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    #2
    Bluelighter egor's Avatar
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    ^I dont get along well with JWH-018 either. Just gives me panic attacks, but nothing even remotely like that. I am amazed at the severity of this reaction from oral dosing (I never tried that ROA, only smoked it), but we have little to no idea what the metabolic process is like or what enzymes are involved. Live and learn I guess:/
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    #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Softball View Post
    I know that some people find these effects desireable, but I've seen people on pot, they can speak, even if they sound stupid.

    .... I've done a lot of other drugs, some only once, some with a degree of regularity, but all of them plants/medicines with a well documented history of use and effects, well understood dosing. This stuff is essentially uncharted territory, there was no reason to assume that the effects would fade or not.
    Here's a similar report.

    So you have or have not used cannabis? Maybe by "I've seen people on pot" you just mean you've seen people on pot when you were sober and thought yourself a reliable judge, but this sentence hints that you haven't, especially since you never mention other cannabis experiences. If you haven't (which, I admit, seems strange given your opiate experience), cannabinoid receptor agonists, in cannabis or not, can bring with them surprising amounts of paranoia and psychedelia to the sensitive and uninitiated. With compounds like JWH-018 it's really easy to get a lot of that snowballing paranoia really quickly, especially if your scale isn't all that accurate.

    That said, I've noticed a lot of paranoia and irrational self doubts spring up during JWH-018 experiences. I always pause and find a way to explain them away, and then I laugh and feel full of euphoria. Obviously this isn't a great recreational property for a drug to have, but I think it could be extremely valuable in training those who experience it to recognize and overcome irrational and destructive emotions and to help us know the better parts of ourselves. Not much is known about JWH-018, so obviously it's best to use infrequently, if at all. If not for the attribute I describe above, I'd just use high grade cannabis.
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    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by psood0nym View Post
    Here's a similar report.
    You know, I searched this forum more than once and never saw that report. I don't know how I missed it, I wish I hadn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by psood0nym View Post
    So you have or have not used cannabis? Maybe by "I've seen people on pot" you just mean you've seen people on pot when you were sober and thought yourself a reliable judge, but this sentence hints that you haven't, especially since you never mention other cannabis experiences. If you haven't (which, I admit, seems strange given your opiate experience), cannabinoid receptor agonists, in cannabis or not, can bring with them surprising amounts of paranoia and psychedelia to the sensitive and uninitiated. With compounds like JWH-018 it's really easy to get a lot of that snowballing paranoia really quickly, especially if your scale isn't all that accurate.
    The report above brings up something I realized today, something which is so obvious that I didn't see it, I don't smoke pot and have no tolerance at all. I've never smoked pot, wasn't looking for an alternative; this was just one of the chems I ordered when I decided to start going the RC route with my experiments.

    Really, how stupid am I that I didn't take that into account? Feel free to answer that honestly and brutally, I can take it.

    I think I might have been able to handle the paranoia, but the near complete loss of motor control didn't help quell my fears, just fed them. My friend has since told me that I looked like a person with complete brain damage, not like someone who was "a bit too high." That and the though "this could be permanent, this could be how you are now" that kept running through my head...

    I calibrated the scale right before using it, and it seemed dead on to me. This was another dumb, rushed mistake on my part. I had discussed (on another forum) diluting the whole (known) quantity of the chemical with a known volume of water and dosing by measuring the water (which is much easier to do), I didn't do it because I didn't show this chem the kind of respect I've shown to other drugs, and I learned a valuable lesson.

    Quote Originally Posted by psood0nym View Post
    That said, I've noticed a lot of paranoia and irrational self doubts spring up during JWH-018 experiences. I always pause and find a way to explain them away, and then I laugh and feel full of euphoria. Obviously this isn't a great recreational property for a drug to have, but I think it could be extremely valuable in training those who experience it to recognize and overcome irrational and destructive emotions and to help us know the better parts of ourselves. Not much is known about JWH-018, so obviously it's best to use infrequently, if at all. If not for the attribute I describe above, I'd just use high grade cannabis.
    Yeah, I won't be trying this stuff again. I'll stick to the opiates, they're safer

    I'm not trying to encourage or discourage use of this chem or RCs, just hoping my experience will contribute to the communities knowledge of the chem.
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    #5
    I just finished documenting a few extra experiences that might color the situation:

    Near complete loss of short term memory combined with extreme time dilation. Had originally planned on watching xxxHolic while stoned, and as the stuff kicked in I was watching an episode. I would get what felt like a half our into the show (it's only 24 minutes long) and feel like "how is this episode still on?" Only to see that, not only had only a few minutes passed, but I couldn't remember a single thing that I had watched.

    I had some stereotypical "forgot to breath" moments where I felt as though I wasn't breathing and had to will myself to take a breath.

    I would get up to do something, (like load erowid to check doses, or pour some water) only to find that I had already done them. I don't know how many times or for how long this happened, but those examples are what I can recall. This strikes me as the kind of frank delerium that is usually ascribed to the tropane class of drugs.
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    #6
    If you had taken a few fat bong rips of some medical MJ, the same thing would have happened to you.

    Honestly I think it's a bit much to frame this as something JWH-018 did to you and post this report everywhere. I feel bad that this happened but 018 didn't do it to you... you did it to yourself.

    No tolerance straight to this is like someone who's never flown before climbing into the space shuttle.

    Again, I totally feel bad that you had such a horrible experience, but this kind of reminds me of the people who ate the pot brownies, then called 911 b/c they thought they were dying...

    If you want to get on the ride, learn something about it before you saddle up.
    Blindly jumping off any cliff is going to be dangerous.

    Hope you feel better now.
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    #7
    God does tolerance make a difference. Eventually you can smoke the stuff like hash.
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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by An4h0ny View Post
    If you had taken a few fat bong rips of some medical MJ, the same thing would have happened to you.

    Honestly I think it's a bit much to frame this as something JWH-018 did to you and post this report everywhere. I feel bad that this happened but 018 didn't do it to you... you did it to yourself.

    No tolerance straight to this is like someone who's never flown before climbing into the space shuttle.

    Again, I totally feel bad that you had such a horrible experience, but this kind of reminds me of the people who ate the pot brownies, then called 911 b/c they thought they were dying...

    If you want to get on the ride, learn something about it before you saddle up.
    Blindly jumping off any cliff is going to be dangerous.

    Hope you feel better now.
    I am feeling better, thank you.

    Just for the record, I am in no way blaming the chemical or anything like that. I take full responsibility for my own mistakes; I just want that clear. I certainly didn't meant to frame the report that way. I don't buy that bullshit/passive voice thing that a lot of people do in describing that a drug "made" them do.

    Many people have said something similar regarding tolerance, and I agree, the fact that I didn't take tolerance into account was dumb on my part.

    I've been through much more painful, longer lasting drug experiences, without feeling the need to reach out for help, to be honest this seems like something more than just being "too high," though.

    The mental aspects, the confusion, I could have handled that. But has too much pot ever caused someone to completely lose muscle control? My friend who brought me to the hospital said I looked like a person with cerebral palsy. I've never heard of cannabis causing such a drastic motor control issue. That's why I pulled the trigger and went to the ER.

    I mean, I've lost motor control with dissociatives before, and it wasn't like that either, that's almost predictable. The spasms and convulsions I was having were so intense that my body is still sore from it, like I went weight lifting or something.

    I thought I had researched the dosage well enough, I just got impatient (because I didn't respect this chem the way I have respected other drugs) and left out a huge part of the puzzle. If anything, I'd like people to learn from my mistake.

    edit: one thing I've noticed from this thread and others, is that it seems like the people who have positive or just neutral experiences with that chem, were people with a decent amount of pot history. This stuff doesn't seem to react well with people who have never done anything with their CB receptors before. It's incredible that I felt like I took every minute detail into account, yet didn't think of something so obvious. :dumb:

    Not trying to scare anyone away at all. Just wanted to post my experience with a relatively inexperienced RC.
    Last edited by Softball; 04-06-2009 at 18:01.
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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by psood0nym View Post
    So you have or have not used cannabis? Maybe by "I've seen people on pot" you just mean you've seen people on pot when you were sober and thought yourself a reliable judge, but this sentence hints that you haven't, especially since you never mention other cannabis experiences. If you haven't (which, I admit, seems strange given your opiate experience), cannabinoid receptor agonists, in cannabis or not, can bring with them surprising amounts of paranoia and psychedelia to the sensitive and uninitiated. With compounds like JWH-018 it's really easy to get a lot of that snowballing paranoia really quickly, especially if your scale isn't all that accurate.
    exactly what came to mind when I read this report.

    I think the fact that youve never smoked pot played a huge role in all of this. It sounds to me like you just got incredibly stoned. the effects youve mentioned are all common of a paranoid weed high. then just add in the fact that this is a newer chemical instead of good ol tried and tested through the ages safe pot. you had a recipe for paranoid disaster.

    sorry to hear you had such a rough time man. it happens to the best of us
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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by grimble crumble View Post
    exactly what came to mind when I read this report.

    I think the fact that youve never smoked pot played a huge role in all of this. It sounds to me like you just got incredibly stoned. the effects youve mentioned are all common of a paranoid weed high. then just add in the fact that this is a newer chemical instead of good ol tried and tested through the ages safe pot. you had a recipe for paranoid disaster.

    sorry to hear you had such a rough time man. it happens to the best of us
    I do think that most of the mental stuff was that. Really, though I have to say there was no euphoria (or as best as I can compare the euphoria I get from my delicious opis). More like a burning sensation in my brain.

    My concern was, and is, the physical aspect and loss of motor control. I've never seen or even heard of someone quite literally palsied out the way I was from pot, just never.

    We all know that you can't "OD" on pot. But I am thinking that if you could, the out of control muscle shit would be one result of doing so.

    I just really wish I could find an explanation for that symptom, to know if it was unique or represented the possibility of real danger. That's the risk I took in being a guinea pig, I guess!
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    #11
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    Here's a large thread titled "Uncontrollable Shaking/Twitching/Muscle Spasms on Weed." Most of the people in that thread report the shakes with high doses. Strangely, low dose cannabis has been looked at to relieve the muscle spasms associated with MS. The CB receptors must be integrated into the system somehow, with low and high levels of activation producing opposing effects. I'm sure someone on Bluelight could expand on this (the explanation might even be in the thread linked to)...
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Softball View Post
    I do think that most of the mental stuff was that. Really, though I have to say there was no euphoria (or as best as I can compare the euphoria I get from my delicious opis). More like a burning sensation in my brain.

    My concern was, and is, the physical aspect and loss of motor control. I've never seen or even heard of someone quite literally palsied out the way I was from pot, just never.

    We all know that you can't "OD" on pot. But I am thinking that if you could, the out of control muscle shit would be one result of doing so.

    I just really wish I could find an explanation for that symptom, to know if it was unique or represented the possibility of real danger. That's the risk I took in being a guinea pig, I guess!
    I think the explanation is easy. just look up the symptoms for a pannic attack on wikipedia.

    "The most common symptoms may include trembling, dyspnea (shortness of breath), heart palpitations, chest pain (or chest tightness), hot flashes, cold flashes, burning sensations (particularly in the facial or neck area), sweating, nausea, dizziness (or slight vertigo), light-headedness, hyperventilation, paresthesias (tingling sensations), sensations of choking or smothering, and derealization"

    you had a paranoid drug experience that sent your body into a pannic attack which easily can be mistaken for an overdose, especially while under the influence.
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by psood0nym View Post
    Here's a large thread titled "Uncontrollable Shaking/Twitching/Muscle Spasms on Weed." Most of the people in that thread report the shakes with high doses. Strangely, low dose cannabis has been looked at to relieve the muscle spasms associated with MS. The CB receptors must be integrated into the system somehow, with low and high levels of activation producing opposing effects. I'm sure someone on Bluelight could expand on this (the explanation might even be in the thread linked to)...
    Quote Originally Posted by grimble crumble View Post
    I think the explanation is easy. just look up the symptoms for a pannic attack on wikipedia.

    "The most common symptoms may include trembling, dyspnea (shortness of breath), heart palpitations, chest pain (or chest tightness), hot flashes, cold flashes, burning sensations (particularly in the facial or neck area), sweating, nausea, dizziness (or slight vertigo), light-headedness, hyperventilation, paresthesias (tingling sensations), sensations of choking or smothering, and derealization"

    you had a paranoid drug experience that sent your body into a pannic attack which easily can be mistaken for an overdose, especially while under the influence.
    Well holy shit, both of these posts explain so much!

    Thank you. I have never heard about reactions to pot as described in that thread, but obviously its possible. I wish I had known that pot could do that.

    Seriously though, I've had drugs overtake me hard, like, lie on the floor unable to move for 8 hours hard; I've taken too much oxycodone, had hallucinogenic plants rip me a new asshole, but nothing ever like this.

    I guess all I'd like to see is that anyone who reads this report, please don't assume the chem is innocuous or a "light drug" the way we commonly think of pot.
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Softball View Post
    I guess all I'd like to see is that anyone who reads this report, please don't assume the chem is innocuous or a "light drug" the way we commonly think of pot.
    good advice with any unfamiliar chem right there. you should submit a report to erowid.
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by grimble crumble View Post
    good advice with any unfamiliar chem right there. you should submit a report to erowid.
    I did about the same time I made this thread (I wrote the report up in an editor). I couldn't find on Lycaeum.org where they take reports, if they do at all.

    Although I've submitted multiple reports to erowid and not one has ever been posted to the site. I feel sort of like that whole site has slowed to a crawl.
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Softball View Post
    I did about the same time I made this thread (I wrote the report up in an editor). I couldn't find on Lycaeum.org where they take reports, if they do at all.

    Although I've submitted multiple reports to erowid and not one has ever been posted to the site. I feel sort of like that whole site has slowed to a crawl.
    Ive got few im waiting on to be published to, erowid still publishes new reports everyday they just get so many submitted its hard to keep up.

    you can actually volunteer to be a triager for erowid and help speed up the publishing process if your interested in that kind of thing.
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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by grimble crumble View Post
    Ive got few im waiting on to be published to, erowid still publishes new reports everyday they just get so many submitted its hard to keep up.

    you can actually volunteer to be a triager for erowid and help speed up the publishing process if your interested in that kind of thing.
    I am interested, thank you.
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    #18
    Hey snowball..

    glad you are feeling better!

    I think your trip report could really help other people for sure... especially someone who was trying 018 for the first time with little THC experience.

    It's a fun substance but it's also something that has to be respected.

    Thanks for taking the time to write it up!
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    #19
    getting the shakes, or shivers as i like to call them seem fairly common with high doses of jwh-018. i get them after consuming about 10-15 mg. i kind of find them pleasurable tbh.
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    #20
    Hey, SoftBall. I'm wondering if you can tell me how you are getting on, 10 days later. I don't usually do drugs and was only trying out this one yesterday because I thought it was really weak as it's legal etc and I had practically the exact same experience with it. I'm just hoping that there are no long term effects. Please tell me if you are feeling anything different now. I heard of a guy that had paranoia and delusions for 2 months afterwards. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also are there many people on this site that this has happened to?

    Thank you,

    Dara
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    #21
    Quote Originally Posted by pikminman View Post
    Hey, SoftBall. I'm wondering if you can tell me how you are getting on, 10 days later. I don't usually do drugs and was only trying out this one yesterday because I thought it was really weak as it's legal etc and I had practically the exact same experience with it. I'm just hoping that there are no long term effects. Please tell me if you are feeling anything different now. I heard of a guy that had paranoia and delusions for 2 months afterwards. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also are there many people on this site that this has happened to?

    Thank you,

    Dara
    Hi Dara, I'm not a doctor but in my experience using this and in talking to other people, any effects are very short term

    the longest you would feel anything from 018, good or bad is about two hours - most likely much less than that, and the only side effect I've seen or heard of is sleepiness.

    Nobody is having two month jags of paranoia and delusion b/c of 018.
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    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by An4h0ny View Post
    Hi Dara, I'm not a doctor but in my experience using this and in talking to other people, any effects are very short term

    the longest you would feel anything from 018, good or bad is about two hours - most likely much less than that, and the only side effect I've seen or heard of is sleepiness.

    Nobody is having two month jags of paranoia and delusion b/c of 018.
    Well I dunno, "cegly" on this page: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthrea...=408325&page=3

    Says the following:


    I experienced some sort of temporary psychosis (HPPD?) that lasted about 1.5 months and mostly ended about a week ago (Thank God!). It started with blurry and flickering vision, anxiety, feelings I was completely losing my mind, and peaked with loss of most brain and memory function to the point it was hard to hold conversations with people, let alone do school work. There was also a great deal of DP/DR (depersonalization and derealization) in the beginning.

    It changed about 1.5 weeks ago overnight to very static filled vision that became worse and worse for 5 days. The flickering stopped at the same time as did my anxiety and feelings of insanity. Over the past week the static has been fading and I've been feeling pretty much normal.

    I have no idea if this was drug related or not, but I'm so glad to be generally back to normal. I hope so much it stays this way. Thanks to everyone who gave me some support, it helped a lot! It's possible that I'd been using too many psychedelics lately and this just triggered it, or that it's completely unrelated to any drug use. Who knows.

    By now, I almost just wish this thread would go away because I don't feel like thinking about this, or the last 2 months ever again.
    That being said, I do feel a lot better today, albeit a bit cloudy.
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    #23
    Quote Originally Posted by pikminman View Post
    Well I dunno, "cegly" on this page: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthrea...=408325&page=3

    Says the following:



    That being said, I do feel a lot better today, albeit a bit cloudy.
    "I have no idea if this was drug related or not"

    *shrug*

    Glad everyone's feeling better now.

    Almost anything can make your life hell if you ingest too much of it, even water.

    I really hope nobody who has these problems goes back to the substance again. If this freaks you out that badly then you need to stick to some other type of method of recreation. lol.
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    #24
    Quote Originally Posted by An4h0ny View Post
    "I have no idea if this was drug related or not"

    *shrug*

    Glad everyone's feeling better now.

    Almost anything can make your life hell if you ingest too much of it, even water.

    I really hope nobody who has these problems goes back to the substance again. If this freaks you out that badly then you need to stick to some other type of method of recreation. lol.
    True
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    #25
    Bluelighter kroozer_*'s Avatar
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    Sucks that you did not have a good time. I was considering getting JWH because soon i will not be able to smoke. Reports like yours can help with harm reduction. Now, not too sure about getting some jwh. Especially since you are not the only one out there with a bad experience.
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