16mg clonazepam a day...

[FractalStructure]

And you might want to get labs done on the plasma concentration of the clonazepam...I just did myself the last time I went to my PCP and he said I'm at a point where all 8mg are going through me in just a number of hours at most...It's like I'm not even on it.

Weirddd... and kinda scary. but anyway, even though i dont get "high" off this med, I can feel its' presence usually.... it does help to some extent (anxiolytic effects) and also, I dont think my body actually requires that much to function... I guess I'll experiment with dosage cuts, but no more than 2mg, prolly starting with something like .5

...but if you barely even "take it" (according to plasma concentration), wouldnt that mean you're not dependent on it?

 

[dankstersauce]

My max recreational dose maxed out around 16mgs a day. I told myself I was taking it for anxiety, but I mostly was just eating them like crazy cuz I got a few bottles for free. I had/have anxiety, but I wasn't scripted them and I'd just pop them all day long like the minty delicious candy that they are.
Anyway, I didn't find dropping down to lower doses that hard but I was only on kpins for about 4-6 months. How long have you been on kpins?

My average daily dose was like 8mgs a day and I tapered w/o much problem, but once I jumped off at 2mgs a day it was hell. Like 4 weeks of sweating, constant anxiety, no sleep...and it felt like it never got better. at least with heroin WD you get better after a week or so. This was just weeks upon weeks of awfulness.

If I were you I'd express your concern with your doctor and see if you can start a taper asap. Or maybe try a different benzo? Or hit the therapy hard....because it's only going to get worse
I think it stays in your system for so long that if you do the taper right it shouldn't be too awful....at least a taper from 8mgs wasn't bad at all for me....it's just the cold turkey you have to worry about.

 

[PARooolller]

At a dosage that high I think you're going to need to taper for months and months, possibly years in your case...

Most I took as RX'ed was 10mgs and check my history to read my horrific past experience with benzo wds

 

[burn out]

are there any risks as far as i dunno, liver damage and such? Its within the therapeutic dose range (up to 20mg) even if it is a seemingly insane daily dose... for the record i usually take 8mg at a time, and i dont get a buzz from it anymore (not that i care, as long as it knocks out my anxiety)

i dont think you need to worry about liver damage. do you drink alcohol? use opiates? definitely not a good idea to do those things on such a high dose. but if you have a fairly healthy lifestyle aside from your insane benzo usage, i dont think you need to worry about dying right now. what you do need to worry about is the horrible effects these things have on your brain when you take them long term and withdraw. start tapering ASAP because the longer you took them, the worse your withdrawal is likely to be. i'm in the midst of benzo withdrawal right now after a relatively quick taper and it is not a good place to be. my main fear right now is that these symptoms are permanent.

 

[carsons_koolaid]

i think kpins are evil. they almost caused me to lose the love of my life... and if he doesn't get his use under control soon, he might just lose me forever. he was taking anywhere from 30-40 mgs a day for the past year... and now that he's admitted that he has a problem, he's down to under 20 mgs a day. i hate those little green pills. they turn him into a violent asshole that doesn't remember a damn thing he does.

 

[phatass]

if you want to taper i suggest you convert to diazepam and drop by 10% avery week, it will take a long time but if thats what you want to do, or you can taper your clonazepam a little bit say down to 8mg/day and maybe that will make you less anxious about your addiction

 

[burn out]

i don't think he should convert to diazepam. the diazepam equivalent is 320 mg. i doubt any doctor is going to prescribe him 32 diazepam pills per day. also, such a high dose of diazepam will likely be too sedating. he could switch to diazepam later on in his taper, although if it were me i would simply do a direct taper off clonazepam, no need to switch halfway.

also 8 mg per day is still a ridiculously high dose. people run into problems taking as little as 1 or 2 mg per day, sometimes even less than that.

 

[ninjakris]

I have tapered down from 6 mgs of xanax once, at 0,5 mg cuts each week. Had to switch to diazepam the last few weeks, as I got w/d symptoms between doses.

 

[3dmusic]

hope I dont sound a smart arse - from a benzo addict

are there any risks as far as i dunno, liver damage and such? Its within the therapeutic dose range (up to 20mg) even if it is a seemingly insane daily dose... for the record i usually take 8mg at a time, and i dont get a buzz from it anymore (not that i care, as long as it knocks out my anxiety)

Benzos only 'appear' to zap anxeity for a short while, then they start to cause rebound anxiety, which is what I have got now - bordering on paranoia.
Then the body craves more. Then shit happens.

Weirddd... and kinda scary. but anyway, even though i dont get "high" off this med, I can feel its' presence usually.... it does help to some extent (anxiolytic effects) and also, I dont think my body actually requires that much to function... I guess I'll experiment with dosage cuts, but no more than 2mg, prolly starting with something like .5

...but if you barely even "take it" (according to plasma concentration), wouldnt that mean you're not dependent on it?

That taper is way to fast, withdrawals will hit you like a train. It is suggested that, under doctors supervision, you cross over to valium, a longer acting benzo, stabilise, and then taper sllllllllllooooooooowly no more than 5% - 10% of the dose.
Tapering too quick can cause protracted withdrawal symptoms which can last a few years.

My average daily dose was like 8mgs a day and I tapered w/o much problem, but once I jumped off at 2mgs a day it was hell. Like 4 weeks of sweating, constant anxiety, no sleep...and it felt like it never got better. at least with heroin WD you get better after a week or so. This was just weeks upon weeks of awfulness.

this

i dont think you need to worry about liver damage. do you drink alcohol? use opiates? definitely not a good idea to do those things on such a high dose. but if you have a fairly healthy lifestyle aside from your insane benzo usage, i dont think you need to worry about dying right now. what you do need to worry about is the horrible effects these things have on your brain when you take them long term and withdraw. start tapering ASAP because the longer you took them, the worse your withdrawal is likely to be. i'm in the midst of benzo withdrawal right now after a relatively quick taper and it is not a good place to be. my main fear right now is that these symptoms are permanent.

I'm in benzo withdrawal too, and like you, fear the symptoms will be permanent. Many benzo free ex addicts can testify that the symptoms are not permanent. Some even say life is better even than before they went on the benzos.

if you want to taper i suggest you convert to diazepam and drop by 10% avery week, it will take a long time but if thats what you want to do, or you can taper your clonazepam a little bit say down to 8mg/day and maybe that will make you less anxious about your addiction

One week is too short a time to hold on a dose, at least a fortnight is recommended, some take a month. Slow is the name of the game with benzo tapers.

i don't think he should convert to diazepam. the diazepam equivalent is 320 mg. i doubt any doctor is going to prescribe him 32 diazepam pills per day. also, such a high dose of diazepam will likely be too sedating. he could switch to diazepam later on in his taper, although if it were me i would simply do a direct taper off clonazepam, no need to switch halfway.

also 8 mg per day is still a ridiculously high dose. people run into problems taking as little as 1 or 2 mg per day, sometimes even less than that.

He can do a gradual crossover then a taper.
I am not expert, but I know the things I have posted here.
I am directing him to thetrap.org.uk, cos they can work out a crossover/taper schedule to take to the doc.

Doctors are surprisingly clueless on benzos, but thetrap.org.uk will fill you in.
Also avoid any drugs which act on the GABA receptors. Avoid any herbs too, I used to take valerian in massive doses to supplement my valium. The valerian is the reason I am not stabilised.
Also, avoid grapefruit juice, and most of all avoid B vitamin supplements as they kick withdrawal symptoms up quite a few uncomfortable notches.

 

[FractalStructure]

^i understand that the max. therapeutic daily dose is 20mg daily, so at least I'm within that range (i dont ever ever wanna go above what im already taking)

Is it possible for the amount of clonazepam in my blood to build up to a toxic level if im just taking it normally at the same time/amount every day? Although I have started to chip off little pieces, I cant really do anything more than that to start off, I start freaking out (probably just my own anxiety rather than withdrawal at this point though)

Also, does this drug cause urinary problems? I have had some issues lately, and im just worried that maybe its caused by the benzos.... =( sigh so fucking scary.

 

[burn out]

benzos did cause urinary problems for me, i've been off them for over 4 and a half months now and still have urinary issues but they are not as bad as they used to be now. why haven't you cut your dosage more?

 

[Pegasus]

Getting your dose down to a reasonable one is the first thing you should focus on. Every bit of time you stay at this dose is going to make your body much more dependent. You have both the high dose and the length of use working against you more and more each day.

6mg is really a good point to aim for as a goal to be at in a few months. If you procrastinate at 6mg, you will still be better off than if you procrastinated at 16mg. You can only go one step at a time here, and just remember that doing this correctly is going to be a long process, but doing it so gradually also makes it very bearable. Every little bit truly makes a difference here.

Good luck.

 

[gloeek]

I have been prescribed klonopin for years now and I have built up such a high tolerance that I can take about 24 mgs and not feel a damn thing. Luckily, it's really hard to OD on benzos, especially if your tolerance is really high. But still be careful! Maybe you should switch to a different benzo. One time I switched from clonazapam to temazapam for a while and it really helped and I didn't have to take near as much for my anxiety to be relieved. The problem was that I couldn't take it during the day because it made me super drowsy so they switched me back to klonopin. Xanax doesn't work for me and neither does Valium. However, ativan works pretty well. Talk to your doc about switching up. If your problem is anxiety, SSRIs have the tendency to relieve anxiety after extended use (I can't use them because they make me manic and suicidal) but they are supposed to be good for a long term cure of anxiety and that way you can taper off the benzos or take a waaay lower dose. Good luck! PM me if you have any questions.

 

[FractalStructure]

I'm trying... I'm literally just chipping off tiny pieces, and even THAT scares the fuck out of me.

 

[FractalStructure]

So, I just made my first 'actual' cut, i usually take 4 x 2mg in the morning and again at night

I just took .5mg off the morning dose, and as little as that is, I'm just scared. Also, I'm with my gf's parents for the holidays so i cant be cutting off anything that would be noticeable

Anything I should be aware of for a cut like that? Any precautions?

Lol, I have to go to the mall and all this stuff, it just makes me nervous being around people when im doing this, I have no idea what to expect...

If anything is wrong or I feel too anxious should i just take a shot or two?
I've noticed alcohol helps me just as much with anxiety as benzos do, which is, of course, not a good thing.


ALSO:

my gf really wants to trip with me, I want to, I just feel like I might not have the best experience. It would either be 2ce, lsd or 4-aco-DMT (last one is my fav right now)... should I avoid psychs for now or if i feel "stable" would it not hurt me? I think I definitely could benefit from a good trip, but at the same time Im afraid of it further deteriorating my mental state

 

[burn out]

So, I just made my first 'actual' cut, i usually take 4 x 2mg in the morning and again at night

I just took .5mg off the morning dose, and as little as that is, I'm just scared. Also, I'm with my gf's parents for the holidays so i cant be cutting off anything that would be noticeable

Anything I should be aware of for a cut like that? Any precautions?

Lol, I have to go to the mall and all this stuff, it just makes me nervous being around people when im doing this, I have no idea what to expect...

If anything is wrong or I feel too anxious should i just take a shot or two?
I've noticed alcohol helps me just as much with anxiety as benzos do, which is, of course, not a good thing.


ALSO:

my gf really wants to trip with me, I want to, I just feel like I might not have the best experience. It would either be 2ce, lsd or 4-aco-DMT (last one is my fav right now)... should I avoid psychs for now or if i feel "stable" would it not hurt me? I think I definitely could benefit from a good trip, but at the same time Im afraid of it further deteriorating my mental state

congrats on making your first cut. you should not have anything to worry about with a cut that small. dr ashton (have you read her manuel?) recommends cutting 10% every one to two weeks, so that would be a 1.5 mg cut for you. with only a .5 mg cut, i would not expect you to notice any symptoms.

i recommend making larger cuts in the beginning and then slowing down a lot when you get near the end. you might be able to tolerate even more than 10% cuts right now since you are on such a high dose, although you can wait til you're not with your girlfriend's parents to experiment with that.

as for alcohol, as long as it is no more than a shot or two i don't see a major problem although it is a bad idea to try to use it to cover up anxiety or withdrawal symptoms. you will most likely have to get used to living with withdrawal symptoms for a while, so you might as well start getting used to it now. some people say you should not consume alcohol at all during the taper or until you feel recovered because it acts on the brain like a benzo. some find it worsens their withdrawal symptoms. however it's an individual thing and ashton had success with many people who drank moderately during and after their tapers.

as for tripping, i'd say go ahead and trip now because you may not want to for a long time (a few years possibly) once you get further down on your taper and you have more withdrawal symptoms to contend with.

 

[FractalStructure]

Well, being my first dose cut and the situation, I dont wanna go too fast, and also, I should say that my goal right now is not to "get off" the drug. I think I'll be fine if im on a dose like 8mg, which is still high, but at least it'd be a 50% reduction.

I just want to fucking live a normal life, the reason this is even in TDS and not OD is because I feel consumed by this crap so much of the time, just by thinking about it. I think about whether toxic levels of clonazepam are building up in my blood, whether it stopped helping with anxiety (and thus rebound and then withdrawal), theres so much on my mind all the time. I feel like I'm just evading death, and if something happened where I cant get my klonopin, natural selection would wipe out my existence. All because of some stupid fucking prescription pill.

I think about heading over to the nearest pharmacy with a shotgun. These are just fantasies but I feel like I may as well just die sometimes. I feel like, this is actually a life and death struggle, and I just....cant handle that on my own.

Oh, and I cant go to any kind of rehab, I had some mini- PTSD thing after having been sent to this place called Desisto... long story. Basically, I wont ever trust anyone else in helping me with this, besides my girlfriend and my family.

And even then I dont know how supportive they actually are. My parents tell me to die on a regular basis, then I have my gf who is truly caring but doesnt realize JUST how much something like benzo withdrawal bothers me. I literally NEVERRRRR wanna be alone.

I also feel like, for someone who met me only a year ago and got to know me, this is cutting into her life, I dont wanna have any kind of negative effect on her life even if its something i cant help... maybe I shouldnt be in a relationship right now. I dont want to hurt anyone, and I know as a consequence I already have (especially with my family, etc)

shes also the sweetest girl ive ever known and certainly does not deserve this

EDIT: this is just a rant, every here and there I'll just have a whole bunch of intense emotion flood me, this was one of those times.
Basically, I just dont want to end up on the BL shrine...

 

[/navarone/]

NEVER! I MEAN NEVER stop all of a sudden! this can be really dangerous both psychologically and physically. You'll very probably risk a seizure.

I started with 3 mg a day of clonazepam dring my nerous brakedown.i fugured out how to fake prescriptions so i basically could prescribe anything i wanted. i went straight down with clonazepam and occasionally some opiates. After daily abuse, after a few months i was already taking 10 mg a day.
It ended up (after one year) that I would take up to 40-50 mg IV(yes, intravenously) a day and STILL WALK around town giggling and wabbling like a fool.

MY best advice, have someone ner you helping you out and cut down gradually, swich to another benzodiaepine with less abuse potential. Avoid alcohol and other GABAercis.

 

[burn out]

Well, being my first dose cut and the situation, I dont wanna go too fast, and also, I should say that my goal right now is not to "get off" the drug. I think I'll be fine if im on a dose like 8mg, which is still high, but at least it'd be a 50% reduction.

I just want to fucking live a normal life, the reason this is even in TDS and not OD is because I feel consumed by this crap so much of the time, just by thinking about it. I think about whether toxic levels of clonazepam are building up in my blood, whether it stopped helping with anxiety (and thus rebound and then withdrawal), theres so much on my mind all the time. I feel like I'm just evading death, and if something happened where I cant get my klonopin, natural selection would wipe out my existence. All because of some stupid fucking prescription pill.

I think about heading over to the nearest pharmacy with a shotgun. These are just fantasies but I feel like I may as well just die sometimes. I feel like, this is actually a life and death struggle, and I just....cant handle that on my own.

Oh, and I cant go to any kind of rehab, I had some mini- PTSD thing after having been sent to this place called Desisto... long story. Basically, I wont ever trust anyone else in helping me with this, besides my girlfriend and my family.

And even then I dont know how supportive they actually are. My parents tell me to die on a regular basis, then I have my gf who is truly caring but doesnt realize JUST how much something like benzo withdrawal bothers me. I literally NEVERRRRR wanna be alone.

I also feel like, for someone who just met me and whatever, this is cutting into her life, I dont wanna have any kind of negative effect on her life even if its something i cant help... maybe I shouldnt be in a relationship right now. I dont want to hurt anyone, and I know as a consequence I already have (especially with my family, etc)

shes also the sweetest girl ive ever known and certainly does not deserve this

EDIT: this is just a rant, every here and there I'll just have a whole bunch of intense emotion flood me, this was one of those times.
Basically, I just dont want to end up on the BL shrine...

sorry to have to say it but 8 mg a day is still going to have the same negative effects as 16 mg a day and really isn't that much different. i mean yes it is an improvement but still more than enough to destroy your life.

if you all you want is to be normal, your only chance is to taper off completely. you may say "i'm not ready to do that right now" but the fact is that when you do it, all the time you spent on benzos is going to work against you. you are risking severe life altering brain damage right now. i did not want to scare you before but now that i see you are considering not getting off benzos, you need to know what is going to happen to you.

 

[FractalStructure]

sorry to have to say it but 8 mg a day is still going to have the same negative effects as 16 mg a day and really isn't that much different. i mean yes it is an improvement but still more than enough to destroy your life.

if you all you want is to be normal, your only chance is to taper off completely. you may say "i'm not ready to do that right now" but the fact is that when you do it, all the time you spent on benzos is going to work against you. you are risking severe life altering brain damage right now. i did not want to scare you before but now that i see you are considering not getting off benzos, you need to know what is going to happen to you.

I dont mean for life or anything... thats not what I plan, but if im setting a goal for myself its much easier for me to say "i will cut down" than for me to say "im just dropping this shit completely". Seriously, if theres not much of a difference, why even bother. In that case, any of the millions of people on more than 4mg of alprazolam or clonazepam are severely fucked. And im not disagreeing with you either, a bit of devil's advocate.

This site has a serious benzo-bias, and i've noticed this over the YEARS i have been on bluelight. I'm looking for help/support, not criticism. If a benzo dose within the medically therapeutic range causes severe brain damage, why is it approved by the FDA? What kind of brain damage is it? If you mean deficits in gaba, I've been looking for direct evidence of that for a long time.

Ah, off topic. Anyway, I dont mean to be rude or anything, I just dont even think you fully understood me, especially since I said that post was just a rant more than anything else. You know, its hard enough for me, I cant imagine the pain total abstinence will cause, which is why I'm setting the goal for 8mg. Whats wrong with that? I do plan on getting off completely, but this is a more immediate thing.

You also should understand that I am not someone buying xanax bars off the streets, not that it really matters. You should ALSO understand that this is an issue that makes me feel suicidal, and maybe its a good thing, in terms of motivation, but fuck this, its really not worth going through all this crap and suffering just to ween myself off a few micrograms

EDIT: the truth is I know the FDA is full of shit, i know some people that work for the FDA, I know the way they operate and their studies. They think heroin is terrible shit with no medicinal use but fentanyl is perfectly okay. Methamphetamine is RX, Amphs are RX'ed to babies, but god forbid you're using crystal. anyway, surely there must be some commonly known info on "benzo brain damage" if it exists, the way that when you're prescribed an amphetamine you are told of its ability to cause psychosis, in a big black-box warning.

I'm just afraid of all this benzo shit, I worry about it so fucking much.