Last edited by SWIM OPIATES; 08-07-2009 at 20:48. Reason: no sources
well one thing i know for sure doing h would definitely make it worse.. especially if you've made it a point not to do it for the past year or so
You understand that anything that activates the opiate receptor (ie makes you feel better) is only going to prolong your WDs, right? Your body doesnt know the difference between kratom or oxycodone or heroin... all these compounds activate the same receptors.
So using kratom isnt going to get you clean... it may make it easy to get off suboxone but you;ll then have to WD off heroin or kratom. There is no pain-free method
I swear kratom made my suboxone W/Ds better I waited a day or two for the w/d to actually kick in fully than I would parachute some Super Green Indo, Usally 10-20g depending on how I felt 20g to start to ease and 10-20g every few hours to keep me feeling better, and it worked just fine to keep me feeling good, and when I ran out the W/Ds were basicly gone. But Im back on oxycodone again so I guess I really didnt wanna quit opiates.
Ok i agree with the fact that heroin will not help, and i am not going to touch that while withdrawing. Although, it is hard to find some hard evidence with the kratom. I had ordered kratom a while ago, and i didn't do anything to me. So my assumption is that it is not too strong. Thank you all for responding to my question, but i think I'm going to try out the kratom. I have scoured the net for hours, and i have found more positive things about kratom for withdrawing, than negative. I will keep you posted on my progress, and i will approach this in an experimental fashion, so the data i post will be somewhat relevant.
Since i am new to this forum, would it be appropriate to post my findings in this part of the forum?
sub w/d isn't really that bad. You are already at a pretty low dose. Start tapering now.
Cut 0.5mg each day, it really won't be that bad. I don't even feel a jump from 6mg to 2mg.
Day 1 - 4mg, since you said u want to stop in a week.
but the more you can drop now, the easier it will be come w/d time.
suboxone w/ds are not intense, like oxy or H w/ds. You'll feel weak, that will be your main thing. Exercising helps, start exercising now to build up strength. You'll get very little hot flashes, some body pains, some RSL, insomnia. Nothing major. It will take you about a week to feel normal.
3 main things you'll deal with - insomnia, weakness, RLS
klonidine is great for things like hot flashes
RLS - benzos but only when u really need them cuz they are also addictive, work best, also exercise helps, taking hot baths/showers
weakness - just know u'll feel especially weak during this time so plan accordingly
insomnia - ambien, if u really need to go the meds way, but if u aren't going to be doing anything during this time, just don't sleep if u can't and sleep when u can
My husband did it the smartest way I ever seen anyone get off meds. He tapered from higher mgs to tiny crumbs. He had like 50 crumbs in his pill bottle, would put them on his hand and pick out the the largest one until they were gone. He had almost no complaints. He had to work the entire time so he couldn't just stop cold turkey from 4mg like you will.
I'm personally on maybe 0.3mg per day and I was on 4-6mg two weeks ago. Didn't even really feel the tapper. I'm not planning on stopping. Just want to save money. I like this med for the pain relief it offers.
I was down to 2mg when I stoped my suboxone, I was at 16mg to start, but yea taper down then kratom will work with easing W/Ds alot, benzos will help too. I always have benzos around so I forgot to add that to my last reply.
And maybe taking one last dose of H or oxy before you start using kratom might help, becasue it will clear the bupe from your receptors.
I don't know why people don't say this more but exercise is an extremely effective substitute for any drug... it naturally produces serotonin, endorphins, and dopamine, all the stuff those drugs artificially produce for you. Exercise also helps reduce the length of the withdrawal as well... just work out until you want to puke and after that you'll feel much better
I agree with the people promoting exercise, but there is more to it than that. I would be cautious of how you exercise when you are fresh off the opiates. I am saying this becuase, every time i detoxed off heroin/oxy contin i would get into this exercise mode. I would goto the gym, and then be sore as hell and have my excuse to get high. Now a light walk would not be detrimental, but going to the gym and pumping iron i would veer away from. I used to be an avid body builder, and i would love to get back to the gym but i'm going to wait at least a couple of months before i start getting into that again.
Hey Swim, I was addicted to opiates for about 4 years and went to Suboxone to kick my habit. I slowly tapered down and was amazed that the Sub w/d was a piece of cake after experiencing horrible w/d from oxy's.
After slowly tapering down to 2mgs a day for 2 days, I was finally out. I was prepared to be extremely sick, worshiping the porcelain gods but to my surprise it wasn't bad at all. I felt a little run down, but not sick. I did have trouble sleeping but other than that, it really wasn't that bad.
I hope this helps. Good luck
Exercise is a pretty great tool.
Ok so this is an update of my situation. I am 12 days clean off the suboxone, and I'm just finally loosing the effects of withdrawal. I did a couple bags of heroin the first two days before i quit the suboxone so i could "clear my receptors". I didn't even get high i just got intense headaches from it. I also opted not to use the kratom since i figured i might as well just get off everything.
The first 5 days were hell no sleep RLS
Day 6,7 felt a little better light 6-8 hours light RLS
Day 7, 8, 9 was bordem, depression and slight withdrawals light RLS
Day 10, 11 massive amounts of fatigue combined with intermittent signs of withdrawal only RLS in the morning
Day 12 I would say my energy is around 60%, i take naps in the afternoon which i never have done in my life. The RLS was still there in the morning but for the most part it isn't that bad.
I would suggest to anyone coming of suboxone take a good two weeks off of whatever your doing since you will need it. I also did a lot of research on the topic. Some people say suboxone withdrawal can last for up to 6 weeks which i think is bull shit. Yea I'm not feeling at my fighting best right now but I'm not feeling like i hate my life.
All and all i would say my experience with suboxone was a positive one. I had about 6 months to get my life together and see what its like to live a life without feeling like shit every couple weeks i tried to kick heroin. It gave me the opportunity to build a group of new friends who didn't do opiates.
For all those who say that suboxone withdrawals last forever and are longer than dope are wrong. This is because most people who kick dope only get clean for a week or so and they are back to it (Or at least this was true for me).
Here are some good links that help me get through it:
Anyways ZYGGY's husband did the same thing as me and it worked really well. Good luck.
No, Heroin wouldn't clear the receptors. Bupe has a much higher affinity and wouldn't budge
You'd just be wasting heroin. If you didn't get high, that's a waste of it. The buprenorphine is highly bound to fat, meaning it's going to be stuck in your system much longer after you've wasted the heroin.
Day 18 : So far so good! I would say that my energy is back. My sleep is 90% as i am sleeping 8-10 hours a night. Still sneezing but i would attribute a decent amount of this to allergy season. Mornings are the toughest part of the day, as i am learning how to get up in the morning without fake energy. I will admit to some cravings at night, but a bowl of some goodness does the trick. All and all things seem to be getting better from here. I will try and keep you all posted at least weekly.
So far anyone looking to get off suboxone just use me as proof that it can be done.
Day 26 : Everything is cool. Withdrawals are basically non existent. I am sleeping good, and i feel good. The temptation to get high is there, but the stupidity to do it is slowly going away, while the common sense to stay clean is coming back.
Good to hear!
Stick with it!
Well done swim. Keep it up you're doing so well! Can I ask out of curiosity did you find any new hobbies or activities to occupy your time?
Last edited by SWIM OPIATES; 08-07-2009 at 20:48.
Good shit bro. Finding a new passion is a key part of doing it right. If I had a nickle for every time I heard an addict say "I was doing so good but I just get bored" I'd have a lot of nickles lol.
this thread really helped me....i was on 8mg of suboxone. Then tapered down to 2mg. Then was on that 2mg for about 2 weeks and then with my last 2mg suboxone i split and half took 1mg, then 1mg the next day. Im on day 2 of being off suboxone, i have like 7grams of kratom...but i dont want to take it cause i feel it would just prolong the WD's....This isnt my first time tapering off suboxone, but this time i did it differently with a slow taper as aposed to an 11 day taper.
Hello, this is my first time writing on one of these boards. I have googled all kinds of things on withdrawals, from H, hydros, perocet, roxicet, methadone, and subooxone literally for YEARS! lol... Today I finally decided to register and give my experiences. To give a brief synopsis of what's ahead, I have to say that Kratom worked like a MIRACLE for my girlfriend withdrawing from 140mg of methadone a day habit, that she was on for many, many months... and I am currently using it to withdraw off of suboxone. Okay that's the short story to get your attention. Just know Kratom works, and I am trying to get a rehab center that is 20 miles from my house to utilize it. I plan to compile data on Kratom, that the doctors can use, instead of Suboxone or Methadone. So here goes mine, and my newly ex-girlfriend's story. If you currently take suboxone, methadone, any kind of opiate, hydro, perc, oxy, roxi, etc...and want to get off but don't know what to do....this is the post for you ....read on my friends. I am 36 yrs old. It started when I was in my late 20's when I opened up a business where I had to be on my feet all day. At first it was fine, but then after a year, the back pain became so bad, I had to see the doc. First thing he did? writes me a script for Hydrocodone 7.5/500. 30 day supply. Take 1-2 daily as needed for pain. I had taken hydros before. I was like 18 yrs old, and got my wisdom teeth out. I LOOOVVVEEEDDD it! lol. But when it ran out, I wasn't devouring the streets looking for more. Back to my late 20's. I started taking 1 hydro 7.5 every night when I got home from work because the back pain was so bad. I never took it at work, and I never ever abused it. I was dating a girl for 4 years, asked her to marry me, and we bought a $215,000 house together. (I live in NY). We lived in it for a year, before I called off the wedding and sold the house and broke up. I used to think that if I wasn't on any opiates, we would still be together? Opiates change the way you look at the world. they "change you mind". While taking the dros, I noticed I would make decisions I would never make if I didn't take them. fast forward a little bit...few years go by, and I'm still taking them. I have to now. If I don't, I can't work because the pain was sooooo bad! only difference is, now I'm buying them off the street, going from doc to doc to get scripts. the drug controlled my life. then when I thought it couldn't get any worse, I met a smoking hot 10 who enjoyed hydros just as much as I did. Her thing was back pain from 2 surgeries gone wrong. So now we are codependent on eachother. ewwww!!! fast forward....we break up...don't talk for a few months...she starts shooting H. I have now graduated from hydros to percs. I took 60 hydro 10/500's one day. the blue watsons. and the only thing that happened was I threw up for 3 hours. I'm lucky I didn't die. I've taken up to 160 mg of oxycodone at one time with little effect. this is when I knew I had to stop. my girfriend was now back in my life because she was on a methadone program. and I bought a few suboxones off the street and was taking them. We both desperately wanted off all opiates. I had read somewhere about this stuff called Krataom. So, being the nerd I am...I have my Masters of Science in biology, I researched the shit out of this stuff. And read nothing but good things. So I bought a shitload of all different kinds from a USA based company that does overnight delivery. It was a Friday, my girlfriends doctors were tapering her down from a 140mg dose of methadone very rapidly. To rapidly IMO....because she was going thru terrible withdrawals. So she gets her "take home dose for the weekend", and accidentally spills it on the rug. And it's a holidy weekend. so now she has to go 4 days with no methadone dosing. Luckily I had the Kratom I ordered. I prepared her approximately 10 grams of super Indo Kratom in a blender mixed with chocolate milk,(which actually doesn't even taste that bad), and gave it to her. Before I gave it to her she was a mess! cold/hot sweats, depression, anxiety, stomach cramps, diarehha, runny nose, eyes, yawning, creepy crawlys, etc...she was in HELL! 30 min after giving her the Kratom, she felt 100% normal. I continued to give her the Kratom every 4-5 hours until she could go back to clinic and get redosed. She eventually tapered down to 10mg of methadone, and then used Kratom for a few days to get over the next few days. then she stopped the Kratom all together. And guess what? she was fine! for the first time in literally 10 years, this girl was CLEAN . She looked great, acted different, and was experiencing true joy. I found out a bunch of stuff that she had lied to me about when she was using and couldn't except it, so I told her I needed time alone to think and put things in perspective. She started shoothing H again . Now she's on a suboxone maintainence program, and will be tapering off soon...or so she says. As for myself. I am on day 3 of no suboxone, but am on a steady regimen of kratom. I will take it for a week or so, then taper off it. I have to tell you. I feel fine. My suboxone habit started around 4mg and I tapered down to 1mg, then jumped to Kratom. I was on suboxone for about 1 and 1/2 years. There isn't much data on Kratom on the internet. But from my experience, it's much much much better to use Kratom to get off opiates than suboxone or methadone. And for those of you thinking Kratom is weak, think again. My ex girlfriend was shoot 2 bundles a day and then to methadone, and 10 grams of Kratom helped her. It's unbelievable. Kratom is a funny plant tho. I bought a ton of different kinds, and experimented with all of them until I found the one that works for me. I hope this helps anyone reading this. I am on day 3 and will keep everyone posted. If anyone has any questions or comments, please feel free to private email me. Thank you for taking the time to read my story.
Last edited by Knight33; 02-07-2011 at 14:27. Reason: missed something
i too, just ordered 5 oz of kratom (4 oz maeng da and 1oz emerald thai) simply because i've been buying suboxone off the streets which are getting harder and harder to find these days. so I want off this stuff altogether, fingers crossed. I have maybe 1.5 mg of suboxone left to last me until my package arrives and im praying to god it holds me off, i couldnt find any suboxone last week for almost 5 days and it was hell to say the least. could you specify which one worked best for you? i've read conflicting reports on kratom and this is my first time trying it so im really excited to recieve my package tuesday at the latest, dang independence day!! your story has given me hope that i can get my life back, thanks for sharing it!!