• TDS Moderators: AlphaMethylPhenyl | Eligiu | deficiT

Kratom Withdrawal

Hi guys! I live in sweden and I´m not quite sure what "phenibuds" and "Immodium" is?
Can any one explain and mayby tell me where I can get it? Online perhaps?
 
damn.... I tried kratom ONE time when I was withdrawaling from a small fentanyl and heroin binge I had like 2 summers ago.. It was some pretty weak stuff. People actually get addicted and withdrawals from this stuff???!!! hahahaha.... Seriously guys, You don't know what pure agony and suffering is untill you have had the W/D's from an IV heroin habit, and your connect is out of town for 3 days. Does kratom withdrawal leave you on the bathroom floor in the fetal position in a pool of your own diarrhea shit with goose bumps and throwing up all over yourself?

Ohhh get off it lol. I think its really quite rare that someone pukes from WD. Infact its something like 25-40 percent of addicts are barely even physicaly addicted. I wish I just did kratom. or stuck to taking like at max an 80 a day....
 
Hey Guys, Iv just read this after many months, just to update you,

1. I got off the Kratom
2. I got onto Codeine
3. I got off of Codeine
4. I got onto Codeine again
5. Im now off all substances except stout, which is a birthright:


When I was in France I felt bad, in total withdrawal and had to walk 25/30km a day that I CWE'd a box of N+ i had in my bag and that was it, I started taking probably 200mg of Codeine a day in pill form such as n+, It made me forget all about Kratom. I withdrew from the codeine twice and was alright, i did it twice and can say it's not as bad as kratom w/d, however its still a pain in the ass to w/d from. I still really think Kratom is safer than any opiate and was an asshole to go there. since then iv gotten healthy even, still go for loads of walks, play wii for hours, all the excercise games, and get a blanced amount of opiate stimulation form excercise. I have on occasion gone to then headshop and relapsed with the "K" but it looks like kratom will be banned here soon. This is a total shame as i know people who were serious addicts to hard opiates were given a godsend when kratom became known to them.

Thanks to all you guys,
 
Good to hear!! We love success stories here at the darkside!

Exercise is key for quitting any habit IMO
 
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hello

Hey Everyone, have decided to finally just do it and quit the Kratom, I'v quit it a few times before with bad withdrawals but was easy enough to do. This time it feels alot harder. For the last week I'm on the leaf so I'm hoping that helps. I have a supply of xanax and loperamide, does anyone know if that combo could help me, my habit is near a year now. Im doing a big walk across France and Spain with my girlfriend so I have to be off it by the time we go. She hates me on it and gives me serious shit about it and I reckon she would finish with me if she knew I was still on it.
I have never really been on anything else other than kratom and alcohol but found kratom to be a source of serious pleasure that snuck up on me and is now affecting my life way more than I like. While it may be mild in comparison to opiates I guess you have to pay the piper sometime in someway.
I'd be happy for any advice or ideas from anyone, I'm glad I can bitch about this here, have felt alone with this for ages, even went to doctors and councellors with no help, I would of got more help if I was addicted to poppy pod tea.

is sweating alot a symptom? my friend got a bad batch and he can't stop sweating plus alot of anxziety and had a bad panic attack and was drinking krat like water and it made it worse or it seemed so. every krat he's taken in large amts for anxiety has always calmed him down, not this time. you are strong for trying! med establishment know NOTHING about krat, everything friggin healthcare pro has said 'what's that'. thanks
 
took a look at this thread again, and wanted to apologize for being a douche bag in my post up above. Not sure what I was thinking at that time, sure it has something to do with my occasional methadone crankiness... Opiate withdrawal sucks and I have extreme empathy for anybody going through opiate withdrawal, cause I know mine were complete hell and suffering. Kratom is an opiate isn't it? And by the way to the cool guy that posted after me, when did I say i was cool for experiencing heroin withdrawals? go back to poppin lortabs buddy, and quit trying to be an e-badass

I read your post and I didn't really see you as being a "douche-bag".

I think you were being very rational, very honest, and straight to the point. Kratom has weaker wds than codiene, its basically the weakest opiate to get off of. If you can't handle it, you shouldn't be abusing it in the first place.

Some people get so hung up on sugar coating and spoon feeding in TDS it seems they forget what drug they're even talking about. I didn't think you were being a cool guy, I think some people need to have more balls and less fear as thats more condusive to harm reduction than babying someone into a relapses a thousand times.
"Oh you keep taking kratom because you can't handle the wds? Thats ok don't be hard on yourself". Bullshit, stop the kratom and deal with it or do a taper. I'm gonna start making threads in TDS about how painful my coffee is to withdraw from, I think kratom is actually in the coffee family which is even funnier. I'm not making light or saying anyones weak, but there comes a time and point in life when growing balls will get you further than sugar coating, and this is def one of those threads.
 
well Bojangles"Kratom has weaker wds than codiene", don't believe a word of it, kratom withdrawal may be quicker and "different" but the paws and shit are bad , Took me months to get back to normal after my almighty binge with kratom, I know heroin addicts who got on the kratom train and are still as fucked as ever, some even fool themselves into believing its not doing them any harm, when i was talking about withdrawals Im not just taling about the 4 days of bed, its the thawing out of your brain from depleted chemicals in your brain that lasts weeks or months. Kratom may work for people who just want to wd off an opiate for a week or two, but I have yet to meet someone who did'nt become a kratom addict themselves doing that, not saying theres not one. I remember thinking like that when i started kratom, defending it, it's not as bad , blah blah, that was back when itwas new to the average western person, utfse and read a few of the wonderful tales about kratom. It's a sneaky fucker thats for sure.
 
I'm gonna start making threads in TDS about how painful my coffee is to withdraw from,
Caffeine wds can be bad for some. It is one that has caused me to have to curl up on the floor in a dark room in the fetal position vomiting.

Thanks for sharing your story Father Stack. This is an interesting thread. I had no idea people could become addicted to kratom. I've used kratom about once a week for a year. I like the stuff but only every so often -- it does't really seem to work if I take it 2 days in a row. And the taste is just FOUL. On the other hand, it's not as hard on the system as getting drunk. it's cheaper too. As for withdrawal, only on the morning of the day after, do I feel gnarly. The feeling is reminiscent of mild opiate wds. But by noon and maybe a beer and a coffee, I'm fine. I suppose you've got to take it every day for weeks, impossible for me considering how FOUL the taste is, to get the symptoms you describe.
 
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damn.... I tried kratom ONE time when I was withdrawaling from a small fentanyl and heroin binge I had like 2 summers ago.. It was some pretty weak stuff. People actually get addicted and withdrawals from this stuff???!!! hahahaha.... Seriously guys, You don't know what pure agony and suffering is untill you have had the W/D's from an IV heroin habit, and your connect is out of town for 3 days. Does kratom withdrawal leave you on the bathroom floor in the fetal position in a pool of your own diarrhea shit with goose bumps and throwing up all over yourself?

The onset of addiction to Kratom happens later than it would to Heroin usage.
Kratom can be Addictive. Lets not let pissing contests stand in the way of someone looking for help and Advice, dont think the intention of his thread has anything to do with comparing who has got it worse!
(Martyr statements like:''you should try such and such; then you'll know what suffering really is my boy'', only shows jealousy, bitterness and inability to identify with someone in a different situation to yourself-wouldnt it be more helpful, for both you and he, to be glad he hasnt suffered the way you did?!) A healthy fear of Addiction is commendable.:)
Not being Sanctimonious here, just pointing out how your perspective is filled with bitterness and this might work against you in the long run.

^Oops, Just saw ur apology, hope your doin ok BV?<3
 
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I'm addicted to kratom. Even though i've been addicted and taking about 7-8 teaspoons full a day, i've always been able to sleep fine if i took just a teaspoon before bed, but now i've run into a NEW problem.

I've been tapering down, but i'm having this problem where I get massive chills during sleep (mainly when i'm falling asleep) and it wakes me up.. so i can't get good sleep. But if i take too much kratom at night or in the evening, the stimulation causes me to trip out while sleeping (which keeps waking me up with crazy images).. so lately i've just been sleeping through the chills (feeling hot and cold at the same time, horrible, bad sleep).

Its a new problem I don't know why after a year of constant use i'd suddenly be getting this problem, probably because i've managed to take lower doses for a couple months and its a newer, stronger w/d symptom.

Weirdly i'm not getting restless legs at night (it used to happen). Would loperamide possibly help with the body chills?
 
Kratom WDs for me can be just as bad as hydrocodone, definately much worst than codeine, on a whole different league, on the physical level they're not that bad, but the anxiety and depression are really something.

I've been on and off it since 2007 and if I stop after several months of high dose daily use, I feel completely impaired, restless legs, muscle cramps, burning stomach, strong nausea, horrible chills and sweating, flu like symptoms.

Mentally I feel like there's no reason to live, the world seems a cold and hostile place, I get absolutely no enjoyment from things that I usually like, I get panic and anxiety attacks which lead me to down copious amounts of alcohol.

I admit I'm a noob when it comes to opiates, never done H, only tried oxy on a handful of occasions given price and rarity, but I did have a supply of hydro and Ms Contin a few years back and the Kratom WDs easily match the hydro.

A lot of people underestimate it, but it's a very powerful herb, especially if one is using the enhanced types at big doses for continued amounts of time, as in daily for several months.

I'm going through WDs as we speak, I've been feeling absolutely awful these past few days, obsessively thinking about my next delivery, completely unable to interact with others or enjoy my daily activities.
 
what

Hey Everyone, have decided to finally just do it and quit the Kratom, I'v quit it a few times before with bad withdrawals but was easy enough to do. This time it feels alot harder. For the last week I'm on the leaf so I'm hoping that helps. I have a supply of xanax and loperamide, does anyone know if that combo could help me, my habit is near a year now. Im doing a big walk across France and Spain with my girlfriend so I have to be off it by the time we go. She hates me on it and gives me serious shit about it and I reckon she would finish with me if she knew I was still on it.
I have never really been on anything else other than kratom and alcohol but found kratom to be a source of serious pleasure that snuck up on me and is now affecting my life way more than I like. While it may be mild in comparison to opiates I guess you have to pay the piper sometime in someway.
I'd be happy for any advice or ideas from anyone, I'm glad I can bitch about this here, have felt alone with this for ages, even went to doctors and councellors with no help, I would of got more help if I was addicted to poppy pod tea.

what is kratom?
 
Ohhh get off it lol. I think its really quite rare that someone pukes from WD. Infact its something like 25-40 percent of addicts are barely even physicaly addicted. I wish I just did kratom. or stuck to taking like at max an 80 a day....

I used to not puke from withdrawals till i started iv'ing dope after having been on 80mg methadone. It wasn't rare I would have to stick my head out the window on my way to cop just to throw up bile.

I do agree some people are more prone to throwing up and shit, but I think if you pick up a heavy habit its inevitable.

When I was doing 300-400mg oxy shit was a walk in the park compared to H. Withdrawals were very debilitating but atleast I coudl kinda hide them. It's hard to hide a hacking puke every fuckin 15 minutes lol.

I was and am very physically addicted though. Having a decent job/credit cards etc.. really fucked me in the end.

To the OP, I am sure you are not making up your symtoms. Just remember this fro next time if you ever think about dabbling in opiates again. Good thing about withdrawal is ito nly has to happen once. (Even thought that notion is really unfathomable for me).

I think if you load up on loperamide and xanax to help you sleep you won't miss a night honestly. It actually helps more than you;d think (loperamide)
 
I read your post and I didn't really see you as being a "douche-bag".

I think you were being very rational, very honest, and straight to the point. Kratom has weaker wds than codiene, its basically the weakest opiate to get off of. If you can't handle it, you shouldn't be abusing it in the first place.

Some people get so hung up on sugar coating and spoon feeding in TDS it seems they forget what drug they're even talking about. I didn't think you were being a cool guy, I think some people need to have more balls and less fear as thats more condusive to harm reduction than babying someone into a relapses a thousand times.
"Oh you keep taking kratom because you can't handle the wds? Thats ok don't be hard on yourself". Bullshit, stop the kratom and deal with it or do a taper. I'm gonna start making threads in TDS about how painful my coffee is to withdraw from, I think kratom is actually in the coffee family which is even funnier. I'm not making light or saying anyones weak, but there comes a time and point in life when growing balls will get you further than sugar coating, and this is def one of those threads.

Bojangles, you're one of my favorite posters here, and I see where you're coming from, but I think its this type of sentiment that generates threads like this.

An opiate-naive person searching the web sees kratom "gives some opiate effects but its not really addictive and its essentially withdrawal-free". So they figure they'll try it, get good effects, than start taking it all the time with little fear of addiction/withdrawal. All of a sudden they miss a few doses and are hit with w/d symptoms when they were not expecting them. That can be frightening and all of a sudden they're on bluelight trying to find out how to feel better. Most abusers of stronger opiates know they're in for withdrawal if they stop or cut back.

Also, I found I got better effects from kratom than significant amounts of codeine, but I guess thats just personal preference. Everyone is different.
 
Hiking is awesome during any type of withdrawal.

WTF? While I agree 100% that this is awesome for anxiety, depression, flexibility and more, it is misleading advice for someone new to WDs.

Most people can barely manage to pick up the remote to change the channel when in the throws of WDs. Recommendations to this individual should have been more reality based. I apologize for my dismay, but it seems somewhat irresponsible to suggest this to someone who has a vacation planned with physical activity involved. He was lucky to have access to codeine or he would have been completely unprepared with a relationship on the line.

On another note, I was lead to believe that Kratom was not an opiate but opiate-like based on its effects on mu receptors. The pharmaceutical equivalent most closely associated with Kratom is Tramadol. For this reason, i took it during my methadone WD. I have a stomach of steel. This however, made me vomit even when mixed with chocolate shake. I so desperately wanted relief but couldn't manage it down more than once. It took the edge off and allowed me to get up enough to walk around for a few hours. Its effects are very short lived and only barely eased methadone WD symptoms which was disappointing after waiting for it in the mail.


Thank you for the update OP!
 
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Yeah I am sorry but the last thing I am going to fucking do while I am cold-sweating, throwing up bile, feeling like DEATH is going to go on a wonderful nature hike lol. Maybe after 7 days into H withdrawal or something, but FUCK you will not see me up on the mountain with a walking stick enjoying the fresh air and little bunnies and shit lol.
 
Off the K finally

If you want to hear about my K withdrawal, skip ahead a few paragraphs. I feel some backstory is merited.

Kratom was the first opioid I got really into. The pills and heroin, etc. never attracted me much - too artificial. Opium I did like, though. I guess the reason I got so into kratom was that it seemed fairly benign as far as drugs go (and it's LEGAL). I remember watching Tarkovsky's "Stalker" while experimenting with some 15x extract for the first time after some difficulty with my freelance work. At the time I was regularly driving to faraway places as a mere act of leaving myself behind. In short, I was severely depressed. My doctor and I decided the root of my sadness was my near-agoraphobic anxiety, which made it very difficult to modify my lifestyle.

Anyway, when the opioid receptors started going gaga, it was as if a shroud had been removed from my mind. I could enjoy myself consistently. There were no breaks, just seemingly endless bliss that I'd never felt. Ever. I knew from then and there that I would pursue this strange plant to greater heights.

As it goes, I got addicted, throwing money and time into it. I would lapse into occasional withdrawals, usually because I ordered it via USPS and I'd run out of extract. This led me to discover DXM's potential in alleviating w/d pains (I'd never tried it before, and loved it). However, kratom really weakens your body's ability to cope with new stressors, over time. It came to a point where I couldn't use DXM anymore because the combination of drugs would cause respiratory depression, anorexia, and chills. I soon moved on to ground leaf, to save money. At my peak I was going through about a pound every 2 weeks. I went to the ER twice - once due to unpreparedness regarding the restless leg syndrome of w/d, and then another time due to aftereffects of DXM mixed with kratom. The latter was pretty excruciating, and a clear reminder of just how addictive and powerful it is.

The impetus for my quitting was a need for a clearer head. My girlfriend was moving out west for a job, and I wanted to go with her. She eventually said I had to quit if I was to go. I wasn't going to lose her over this - unlike the previous times, when I'd make promises that I wouldn't fulfill.

I had cut back a bit to begin with, so quitting wasn't as difficult as I'd imagined. I HIGHLY recommend boiling your powdered leaf into tea, then straining out the pulp. Drink the liquid for a very quick jolt of bliss. Drink the pulp (mixed with water of course) if you are serious about quitting. It has far less of an effect than either the straight-up leaf or the strained tea, yet somehow it keeps you afloat for a while.

First came the chest pains, then the anxiety, then the depression. Just as I thought I'd quit, some restless leg syndrome bit back, out of nowhere. I experienced it as a weird, burning sensation in my heart which forced me to constantly move my legs. I'm still going through this as we speak, but it has lessened.

My advice for withdrawal:
-First of all, taper off if you can, esp. using pre-extracted leaf.
-Use benzodiazepines for the first couple days, when your body is at its most vulnerable.
-Use kava the following days. I find this not only alleviates the RLS, but also improves mood AND anxiety. It's pretty much win-win.
-Stay away from diphenhydramine. It makes the restlessness far worse. If you can't sleep, do pushups.
-Use loperamide as needed; it can help with physical symptoms.
-For sleep, use valerian and chamomile. This goes for everyone, addict or not.

For what it's worth, kratom is very real, especially if you haven't much experience with opioids. I think someone else on this forum put it best: "Heroin will kill you; Kratom will make you stagnate." Use it responsibly.
 
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I've experienced withdrawals from both long iv heroin binges and long kratom binges, as well as wd's from other opiates.. In my opinion, withdrawals from UEI kratom are actually worse than those from heroin, and it's for the same reason that pod tea wd's are worse than those from morphine.. That reason is that with heroin and morphine, your body gets addicted to just one chemical. With UEI kratom, as well as with pod tea, your body gets addicted to a cocktail of chemicals.

As for the original post, one thing that hasn't been mentioned yet that has always helped me with wd's is st. John's wort.. I take four doses of 1200 mg each. With the wallmart brand that's four pills, four times daily.. Try it it's saved me from anxiety and depression countless times and is very affordable..
 
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I withdrew from kratom, it lasted 20X longer than alcohol wd. I discovered manng da pimps grade whole leaf and it was sooo much better than any crappy extract that I'd messed with in the past. I dosed about 7 gms/3-4 times a day for about three months. The last few weeks I started supplementing tincture extract as well, which may have led to my downfall.
The withdrawals started out as waves of sheer, unrelenting anxiety - and they started when I was drunk, so alcohol wd is improbable. When I was younger, I withdrew from a nasty pint (or more)of rum a night habit - the wd's lasted 4-5 days and were very similar: catatonic anxiety, very high bp, insomnia(brain zaps), tremors, diarrhea, etc.
Three weeks later and the wd's just got worse, eventually I went to my doctor - my blood pressure was 180/110, I was freaking the fuck out! He rx's me hbp pills and zolpidem, tries to push lexapro, but I refuse. So I start taking the bp meds and continue to withdrawal every torturous fucking day for 4 more weeks with the only thing to look forward to was when my nightly ambien knocked me out(if it did). I almost forgot to add that after a month of wd's, my blood pressure started to return to normal and because of the bp med, I started experiencing hypotension (fainted at work, headrushes all the time, etc), eventually I quit the blood pressure pills and felt way better.
Sorry if this post looks like shit - I'm doing this from an iPhone. Anyway, so my withdrawals were horrible for months!! I constantly felt dissociated and panicked, sweating constantly.
Now about nine months later, I have bad insomnia and panic disorder, but closer to normal. I can no longer participate in stimulants of any kind (except caffiene) without extreme jitteryness, palpitations and such. I used to like adderall, occasional cocaine, MDMA and shit, but no longer - the anxiety is just too great.
This all started out as a way to legally relax, as I was trying to not break the law because I'm a single parent, always on daddy-duty and such, I never thought it would lead to months of withdrawals and long lasting anxiety attacks. I can't even stand drinking much, when the alcohol starts to leave my system, I get high
Bp and vasoconstriction, anxiety.
Anyway, when my wd was peaking into the second month, I scoured the net for info and couldnt find much so hopefully this helps someone. I also want to add that I do not live in a mj-friendly area, and people get jacked and/or shot just trying to get some mids or nugs(which is some of the reason I was trying to relax legally). I'm sure that if I lived near a dispensary or a mj-compassionate community and had acces to the right indica strains, some of my wd symptoms could've been alleviated (and maybe I would've never messed with kratom)
This shizz just crept up on me, I never thought using a legal herb for three months would lead to this, it's getting slightly better, but never the same.
 
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