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[Mega]Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion

There is a long thread in ADD about this. The jury is still out but there was one study conducted on rats I believe where they did a test that checked if it (or its metabolites) destroyed DNA which would suggest it is carcinogenic. It wasn't found to destroy DNA in this test so thats good. Apparently the person who sponsored the studies and provided the results wish to remain anonymous though so that doesn't say much for credibility.

You can find the test here: http://www.synchronium.net/2009/02/21/jwh-018-toxicology/

Edit: This is for -018 but they both have similar structures with the potential to metabolize into a toxic chemical.

What study are you referring to?

There was a study done on JWH-015, not JWH-018, which showed that there is an epoxide intermediate that is created during the metabolism of the compound in rats or mice. There was no study done on the carcinogenicity of JWH-015 or the epoxide intermediate, nor is the epoxide likely to exist within an animal's cells for any considerable amount of time. There's also no evidence that JWH-018 shares metabolites with JWH-018. There was simply speculation here on Bluelight that the epoxide intermediate metabolite of JWH-015 might be carcinogenic. Some people took that and ran with it all the way to "JWH-018 causes cancer."

The study I am thinking of doesn't mention cancer or DNA at all I don't believe.
 
Thanks for that coolio, I have personally been worried, especially while high on jwh-018, about that. I have researched it myself but you word things so dummies like me can understand. BTW, has anyone mixed 018 with 073? I tried about 2mg of 018 with around 8mg of 073 with amazing results. The body high was spectacular and I did not get paranoid in the least like sometimes with 018.
 
Compared to real MJ....how expensive is this JWH stuff? I mean..is this the appeal here...you guys can't afford to smoke real weed or something? You all sound like a bunch of mad chemists...and I think any of this discussion does not belong in the Cannabis forums.
 
It can be a lot cheaper, maybe 1/100th the cost to 1/10th the cost depending on the chemical. But I doubt that's the appeal for many. Why was oxycodone developed when there was already opium? And as mods have moved JWH threads here in the past from ADD, I guess it does belong here.
 
It can be a lot cheaper, maybe 1/100th the cost to 1/10th the cost depending on the chemical. But I doubt that's the appeal for many. Why was oxycodone developed when there was already opium? And as mods have moved JWH threads here in the past from ADD, I guess it does belong here.

That's a pretty good incentive to switch from real MJ.....money savings of that magnitude is tempting.
 
It's not all about the price.

As mentioned before countless times, not everyone can ingest THC due to drug tests and things of that nature. Or if they have no more access to Cannabis.

Therefore this is an alternative, no one knows if it's bad for you or not but that's a personal choice for the user to make. I personally read all I can about the topic before deciding to use the substance. Until I experience something negative then I have no problems with these RC's.

If new research is brought to light that proves these RC's are dangerous then you can't argue they are bad/safe to ingest. It all boils down to personal choice and everyone is different.
 
What study are you referring to?

There was a study done on JWH-015, not JWH-018, which showed that there is an epoxide intermediate that is created during the metabolism of the compound in rats or mice. There was no study done on the carcinogenicity of JWH-015 or the epoxide intermediate, nor is the epoxide likely to exist within an animal's cells for any considerable amount of time. There's also no evidence that JWH-018 shares metabolites with JWH-018. There was simply speculation here on Bluelight that the epoxide intermediate metabolite of JWH-015 might be carcinogenic. Some people took that and ran with it all the way to "JWH-018 causes cancer."

The study I am thinking of doesn't mention cancer or DNA at all I don't believe.

I don't know if it would be considered a study actually. More like toxicology tests. Did you check my link? They have the results on that site in .pdf form.
 
Yeah, that ADME toxicology study showed no hints of any toxicity (besides death from overdose) or carcinogenic effect.
 
A revisiting of the JWH series genotoxicity

This is my first post. However, I have been reading this forum for quite some time. I have read all pertinent information concerning the topic at hand.

The JWH series, with only a few notable exceptions, contain a naphthalene moiety which is speculated to cause cancer in humans. Naphthalene has been shown to cause cancer in most rodents, and case studies have been done on employees who are subjected to naphthalene as an occupational hazard. These employees have shown an elevated incidence of cancer.

This is highly alarming for me considering the amounts of JWH-073 (250mg in one week) and JWH-018 (333mg in three weeks) that I have consumed. These experiences were subsequent to each other, meaning that I exposed myself to naphthalene multiple times a day for one month. I knew full well the risks associated with vaporizing aromatic hydrocarbons, but disregarded the consequences in pursuit of euphoria.

The cancers typically associated with naphthalene are typically nasal, throat, and liver cancers. Since I flushed the JWH down the toilet, I've had periodic dull aches in what I assume are my kidneys. Especially the left kidney. It's reoccurring, and has caused me a bit of worry. Lets say that I had inflicted myself with cancer, would I be exhibiting symptoms so soon? I hope dearly that I am scaremongering, since lately I've become a bit of a hypochondriac (Research chemicals are nothing to fuck around with, it seems).

I've read the data presented to the online community by anonymouse. According to his data, JWH-018 is not genotoxic orally. But, Hammilton's refutation based on the assertion that pyrolysis may force epoxidation has some validity and I want to know if anyone out there has any concrete information on the subject. I attempted to contact J.W. Huffman himself, in a concise manner, but received no answer.

Any information, or insight into this topic would be appreciated. I'm sure I'm not the only one out there concerned that they've prematurely pulled the plug on themselves.

If this topic is misplaced, I would appreciate it if a moderator would relocate it to a more appropriate home.

Thank you for your attention and responses.
 
This post was a little alarming to me. I have over the past 3 months ingested roughly 800mg of jwh-018. About 1 month ago I started feeling a pain on the left side of my lower back. I attributed it at the time to my awful mattress. About 2 weeks ago I bought a very nice mattress and the pain hasn't resurfaced. I would be shocked if cancer could be caused that quickly. I am sure there would be reports popping up everywhere if it was that toxic. I am a little concerned that it could affect the renal system in some other way. Though again, if this were true we would likely be hearing reports of something happening to jwh users. I believe there are probably not short term effects in most people, but the lack of long term data is a little unnerving. If anyone knows of any new studies on the jwh serious I would love to find out some more info.
 
Well, I seriously doubt that cancer could possibly have such a short 'incubation' period. But, there is a ton of information out there to support the cancer speculation. (Search google: JWH cancer) I know naphthalene is also fairly rough on the liver, but I'm pretty sure that nerves are scarce in the liver, and you wouldn't know you had damaged your liver until it was too late.

It's interesting that you describe similar symptoms to mine. Are you still smoking JWH? If not, how long has it been since you've stopped smoking it? It's been about one month for me, and I still have some pain. A reoccurring dull ache. I've also got this terrible tightness in my chest, but I attribute that to mephedrone and as far as I can tell, it's totally unrelated.

I couldn't stop smoking JWH, since being on probation, I can't smoke weed. I had no choice but to discard it. I would put it away until more evidence comes to light on the issue. If you google 'naphthalene cancer' on google, you'll find a study where male and female rats and mice were exposed to naphthalene vapors on weekdays for two years. They then did a genotox screen on each animal and found that both the male and female mice showed signs of cancer, and the female rats exhibited cancerous behavior. The male rats did not show any signs of cancer. That's encouraging in that I'm a male, but I expect that humans and rats metabolize chemicals in quite different ways.

There's a boatload of commentary on the subject on bluelight alone. It would seem that there have been no new developments, since none of the former posters have chimed in. I don't really understand the human body as well as I should, so I would really like some informed discussion.

Bah. I wish I had never tried to unearth all of these research chemicals. I feel as Pandora must have after opening her box.
 
I hope 'bumping' isn't prohibited on this board. But, since this thread has fallen off of the front page, I'm going to bump it in order to give it a bit more visibility.

Maybe a mod could move this to Advanced Drug Discussion? This subforum may not be the correct venue for such discussion.

Thank you.
 
I did research it as much as I could before I ordered it, but there isn't a lot of direct research out there. I haven't smoked it in about a week. I haven't noticed anything being wrong with me, but it was a little eye opening that you described such a similar pain as I had. I am 90% sure that my pain was cause by my worn out mattress, but I still don't like this coincidence.
 
The speculation on JWH-018 being carcinogenic stemmed from the fact that the napthalene ring could form an epoxide intermediate while being metabolized. Just as taking 2C-I can't lead to elemental iodine poisoning, napthalene's carcinogenicity has nothing to do with napthalene-group containing molecules. With the epoxide potentially being discussed, the napthalene moiety in one molecule would form a bond with a napthalene moiety of another JWH-018. No matter how JWH-018 is metabolized, at no point does the napthalene ring become free from the molecule. Or, just as EVERY tryptamine and phenethylamine has a 'benzene' ring. Benzene being a horrible cause of cancer on its own, but when its just a functional group within larger molecules it is NOT a cancer causing agent.

So anything you're looking up about 'napthalene' you should immediately try to forget, it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
 
At least you'll get a bunch of opiates in cancer treatment...

my initials are JWH.
 
Your argument is persuasive, Coolio, and I'm glad to have heard it. Although I have discarded both my 018 and 073, that is good news. I hope sincerely that it is true, especially for all of the unaware Spice smokers out there. I'm going to abstain from the JWH series, and adventure into the unknown with the CPs, I guess. Cannabis is lost to me for quite some time.
 
The speculation on JWH-018 being carcinogenic stemmed from the fact that the napthalene ring could form an epoxide intermediate while being metabolized. Just as taking 2C-I can't lead to elemental iodine poisoning, napthalene's carcinogenicity has nothing to do with napthalene-group containing molecules. With the epoxide potentially being discussed, the napthalene moiety in one molecule would form a bond with a napthalene moiety of another JWH-018. No matter how JWH-018 is metabolized, at no point does the napthalene ring become free from the molecule. Or, just as EVERY tryptamine and phenethylamine has a 'benzene' ring. Benzene being a horrible cause of cancer on its own, but when its just a functional group within larger molecules it is NOT a cancer causing agent.

So anything you're looking up about 'napthalene' you should immediately try to forget, it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Yeah this would be accurate if the JWH-018 was being taken orally, but seeing as it is mainly being smoked, a large proportion of the dose will be broken down by pyrolysis, and it is quite reasonable to assume that the methanone linker will be one of the scission sites, leading to free naphthalene radicals.

Also note that while formation of an epoxide metabolite in humans is not proven, epoxidation was the major route of metabolism of JWH-015 in rats so it is almost certain that at least some epoxide metabolite will be formed in humans. What nobody knows is how much will be formed, whether this particular metabolite will be carcinogenic (not all naphthalene epoxides are), and whether the levels of exposure from recreational use will be relevant bearing in mind the fairly small dosage.
 
Yeah this would be accurate if the JWH-018 was being taken orally, but seeing as it is mainly being smoked, a large proportion of the dose will be broken down by pyrolysis, and it is quite reasonable to assume that the methanone linker will be one of the scission sites, leading to free naphthalene radicals.

Thanks for catching that - I keep forgetting about the pyrolysis.
 
Well, that's unfortunate. I've never had any success in achieving effects orally.

I know that JWH's solubility is extremely poor in both water and alcohol, and soluble to an extent in lipid fats. I tried vegetable oil, and olive oil and neither worked. Perhaps the dosage needed to be higher, even though I used 10mg of JWH both times. I figured that would be more than sufficient.

I guess it is extremely soluble in acetone, but I don't really like the idea of consuming acetone.

Has anyone succeeded in dosing JWH orally?
 
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