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The Big & Dandy MDAI Thread

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i may be sensitive but 5mg selegiline definitely has a pronounced stimulatory effect. im still not clear on the effect of those metabolites, do they contribute to the effects of selegiline under any circumstances?

Not for me.
Inhibition of maob yields increased motivation and focus...and maybe brightened colors and erotogenesis quite subtle. I'm not sure if I could differentiate them from placebo.

And then lets think about those metabolites. Under very generous conditions, we could expect 30 percent of selegiline to metabolize into l-(m)a, so ~1.66 mg l-(m)a...asssuming 3x potentiation, ~5 mg l-(m)a. meager indeed. . .distributed over the course of the entire day, this would be a threshold at best, even with the d-isomers.

ebola
 
Everyones opinion will be different . Personally in the right combinations this comes pretty close. It's fantastic on it's own as something to relax on and sit around with a group of friends to a glass of wine. It's not a replacement but once I have the lab results of the chem used with this will post it up. But it was the closest to the real thing I have exerienced
 
Oh ebola darling, there is a very good remedy for all stim. crashes: it is called Heroin :).

Seeing that no Heroin is available to me right now (thankfully), I'd likely be using a combination of codeine, benzos, nicotine, Alcohol, and gabapentin.

Ketamine works well if dosed with the proper regimen. Sadly, I have none at the moment :(

Btw, there are 2 things that I find almost completely cancel-out post-MDMA crash:

- Tianeptine - for reasons currently unknown, but very intriguing still. This is interesting since Tianeptine, as I understand, does the exact opposite of MDMA. Yet over my life, Tianeptine has proven to be a formidable antidepressant that works instantly.

- Tramadol. Even if I did have any, I wouldn't use it seeing my history of addiction to it. That said, the o-desmethymltramadol floating around is very tempting...
 
Tianeptine

@Jamshyd: so do you use Tianeptine only in emergency? Like, when your brain sems too need a kick up the backside to avert the misery? Just a single dose? How long do the benefits last? No rebound misery when it wears off? How long have you been using it? And with what frequency?
 
^ It works very well in a pinch, but it doesn't last long. That said, there is no "rebound", you sort of just go back down unless you take more, in which case relief can be sustained.

When in Thailand where I could get it OTC for relatively cheap, I used it regularly. I didn't notice that long-term use had any long-term benefits (and definitely no negative effects). In fact, I'd say it is better left as a short-term emergency solution.

I've used it on and off for several years, but as of today I had not used it for almost a year now due to lack of sources.

Still, when I say it works "in a pinch" I am assuming I do not have Ketamine or Gabapentin, both of which are superior in this regard (plus both keeping a sustained stabelizing effect long after their main effect had worn off)

However, Tianeptine seems to have the unique effect of actually cancelling out a crash from MDMA when taken shortly after the comedown, or at least the two times I tried it for that.
 
^^^
i use tianeptine in the exact same way (or i did before i ran out) just once or twice a week when i was feeling depressed as a pick me up.
 
Let's JAM! said:
Oh ebola darling, there is a very good remedy for all stim. crashes: it is called Heroin .

Tried it once. Was somehow more fun but less effective than a GABAnergic. Same w/ Vicodin.
And <3 for "darling". :)

Seeing that no Heroin is available to me right now (thankfully), I'd likely be using a combination of codeine, benzos, nicotine, Alcohol, and gabapentin.

A mediocre smorgasbord board adds up to an gestalt of "okay"? ;)

Ketamine works well if dosed with the proper regimen. Sadly, I have none at the moment

But does it do so by canceling out affect outright? I like having affect. ;)
Btw, there are 2 things that I find almost completely cancel-out post-MDMA crash:
- Tianeptine - for reasons currently unknown, but very intriguing still. This is interesting since Tianeptine, as I understand, does the exact opposite of MDMA. Yet over my life, Tianeptine has proven to be a formidable antidepressant that works instantly.

So odd.

- Tramadol. Even if I did have any, I wouldn't use it seeing my history of addiction to it. That said, the o-desmethymltramadol floating around is very tempting...

mmmm...I wonder if it'd help me. For me, tramadol feels like SNRI or SSRI induction, at doses up to 200 mg, with maybe SOME itching at that level (I won't go higher). I hate how SSRIs feel.
I wonder if the o-desmeth- holds any promise for me. . .
...
Anyway, I doubt that you'll crash, Jammy, but it sounds like you're well-prepared.

ebola
 
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Tianeptine puts serotonine back at where MDMA pumped it out from, sounds logical it works to me.
 
During your second trial, did you feel anywhere near a mdma experience ?

I ended up not taking the MDAI. The combination of MDPV and alcohol was really, really weird, and I couldn't stay up anymore when I got home. I didn't wanna take the MDAI when I went out because like many people have said, it's pretty sedating and you just wanna lay around the whole time.

Doubt I'll be able to try it anytime soon either. I just restarted an SNRI, so I can't take the MDAI. But if I try this again, I want to try some methylphenidate with the MDAI. I don't like MDPV much as a stimulant.
 
last night i took 80mg of MDAI along with my daily 5mg of selegiline. holy christ was it strong, next time i can definitely reduce the dose to 50mg as there were times where if i stood up i would come close to vomiting. i also found the psychedelic effects to be far more pronounced than other posters have described, i had increased visual acuity, marked color enhancement, and PEA style warm movements which were very much reminiscent of 2C-D. there was also much laughter and psychedelic ideation, to the point that i almost felt as if it would be better to just take 2C-D instead.

it also made sleep virtually impossible, despite the sedative effect i rolled around in bed for hours alternating between feeling too hot and too cold. the sexual/tactile enhancement was utterly remarkable and me and a lady friend had a very good time kissing and rolling around. the next day (today) i still feel far from baseline, i have an awful pounding headache, aversion to light, and dulled muddy thinking. far worse than a MDMA hangover, which were never that bad fore me (i have only done MDMA twice) it should also be noted that i consumed about 4 drinks over the course of last night which could have contributed to the hangover.

overall a good chem, but something i doubt i will be using with too much frequency, even if it is nonneurotoxic it "feels" quite toxic at times.

EDIT: after drinking some water and piracetam i feel much better, my mood is incredible (often find myself smiling and laughing while looking off into space) and i generally feel balanced and at peace with the world - thinking is still slow and muddy verbal fluency is effected as well, difficulty in finding the "right word" etc.
 
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hamhurricane, do you think the selegline may have been the reason you felt at once very hot than cold?

Also I found that 180 mg was WAY too much, my second attempt at 75 was much more chill and managable (also for some reason TUMS intensified the roll big time)

That said this drug does drain you the next day. I will give it one more try at 50mg and give my last report on MDAI (which may be the last time I try it)
 
Well, I did end up trying MDAI and Selegiline on Monday night at an Armin van Buuren event in San Francisco.

Shockingly, however, I started having pain in my kidneys around the end of the night. When it was just the left one, I was reassured by the thought it could be my first kidney stone...but the right followed suit 15 minutes later, so I feared unexpected acute renal toxicity. I've since found out that the problem was actual kidney stones, probably knocked loose by the dancing and earplugs-required volumes.

I prepared for this in the same manner I have for other Selegiline combination tests: three days of Emsam 6mg/24hr patches, keeping a patch on for the experience itself. Prior experimentation has determined that this is /not/ a steady-state inhibition of MAO-B, but it does cause roughly 5x intensification and 2x lengthening of a 2C-C experience.

Dosing Timeline:
9:00pm: 200mg 5-HTP, 350mg N-Acetyl Tyrosine
11:00pm: 50mg MDAI, ~10mg MDMA (scale residue), ~400mg Piracetam, 100mg 5-HTP
11:40pm: 150mg MDAI.

I wasn't feeling much by 40 minutes after the first dose (on an empty stomach), which, combined with relevant 5-HTP preloading, indicated to me that Selegiline wasn't going to cause a dramatic direct potentiation (at least of the scale of MAO-B substrates).

My first indication of the rush was a couple minutes before midnight. By 12:12, I was already pleased with my second rendezvous with MDAI! In reality, things kept building right up through 1AM, and the time between 12:50-1AM could best be described as a peak MDMA experience. I didn't have any fear of serotonin syndrome, but also would not have been comfortable with a significantly stronger dose.

Oddly, I had mild jaw clenching start around 1:30AM. Strong effects remained until around 1:40AM when I approached 'negative' on the comedown scale, and started getting a bit tired.

The kidney stones started hitting around 2:12AM, shortly before which the friend I came with disappeared into the crowd for about an hour (oops). Of relevance is that MDAI caused water retention; my stones were not bad enough to block anything, but despite drinking plenty of water, it didn't really hit me until during the drive home around 3:30AM.


This experience reaffirms my impression that MDAI is an extremely worthwhile material, and that combining it with Selegiline and some preloads has the ability to deliver a very strong experience with at least the majority of the MDMA 'magic'. Given that Selegiline alone is neuroprotective when co-administered with MDMA, this also seems to be a supremely non-neurotoxic alternative. I can't speak as to the degree of potentiation that Selegiline gives to MDAI, but if there is any, I don't think it is substantial or metabolically related (contrary to a couple others' experiences).
 
Deprenyl + MDAI looks like a winner. Its however very interesting some ppl report a whorse comedown then MDMA.
 
MeDieViL i think the comedown is a prolonged emotional comedown, and there are most definitely a physical comedown as well, pain in back, muscle pain, and as 2CEECS stated, water retention. I've also woken up 2 hours later from the comedown with a muddy cloudy mind, and my body felted overheated, I felt like I had a mild case of serotonin syndrome. I think we are dose this thing way too high. And my next and last expereince with this will be 50mg, after which I'll decide if the comedown on this supposed 'non-neurotoxic' is worth it or if I'll stick to MDMA, or at the very least Mehtylone (both of which have felt much better on the way up, and with the right vitamins, water, cool shower, and a spouse with a bucket of ice to chill me out) much better on the way down.
 
Getting 500mg of this stuff soon. I'll try from 50mg and working myself up from there, will post my experiences afterwards :)
 
weather of pork said:
last night i took 80mg of MDAI along with my daily 5mg of selegiline. holy christ was it strong

Didn't 2 mg d-amp + 5 mg selegiline also present unusually strong (like, BP dangerously high strong) fx for you one time, IIRC? You might respond to selegiline + [stuff] idiosyncratically.

SO...this exemplifies why such combos must be treated 'Shulginesquely'! :)
....
So shouldn't MDAI be an MAO substrate of some kind? Would B or A be preferential?

ebola
 
^^^
yes thats true, i also have very limited experience/tolerance to MDx compounds or other serotonin releasers.
 
So shouldn't MDAI be an MAO substrate of some kind? Would B or A be preferential?

My experience indicates that if either MAO plays a significant role in metabolizing MDAI, it is more likely MAO-A. I could easily be wrong, as I say this based on the result of one experiment--but I certainly know that the potentiation of the combination with Selegiline, if any, is not close to the potency of combining it very small amounts of 2C-X's.

Following this second experience with MDAI, I can definitely say that the 50mg + 150mg dosage range is the high end of the scale. Indications are that MDAI is more potent than MDMA; for example, the Nichols paper on combining MDAI with dopaminergic agents has data that indicates lower levels of 5-HT for MDAI 3hrs after equal doses of each, implying that more serotonin was pumped out and metabolized/more downregulation occured. The difference isn't huge, though.

Regarding the comedown...this experience is tainted by the strong fear that I had induced some sort of bizarre renal toxicity, not because the pain symptoms actually fit that diagnosis, but because it was too hard to believe I actually had kidney stones strike on both sides within 15 minutes of one another. Plus I wasn't expecting the water retention aspect, so I considered that a symptom at the time. That said, based on my mood the next day and even my general physical state after the trip, and attempting to separate out the negativity associated with the feeling that I had fucked up my kidneys...the comedown seemed very mild.

I think there are two good reasons why I found it so tolerable, but it may not be for others so far: 1) 5-HTP supplementation, both to "top off" stores before/during the experience and 100-200mg taken afterwards/next day, and 2) the wonderful antidepressant effects of Selegiline.

In all, MDAI has a very good, trustworthy feeling about it to me, most notably because of this general lack of body load with simple supplementation even at high doses. bk-MDMA is also rather kind, but has a nastier psychological comedown for me--though I'm not sure I've tried 5-HTP for that, believing methylone to be primarily dopaminergic. MDMA, even with very comprehensive pre/postload supplementation (selegiline, piracetam, 5-HTP, tyrosine, antioxidants, etc) definitely has a higher toll. Finally, a properly supplemented MDMA comedown is a walk in the park for me compared to the acute (~24hrs) comedown from AMT or bk-MBDB.
 
Mdai+mdpv

Hi everyone, would MDPV be a good DARI instead of selegiline to use with MDAI to achieve the MDMA experience.
Or have I missed something with all the chemicals here:)
 
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