Codeine and buprenorphine, would this work?

[Dr.Strange.Love]

I'd love an answer to this question real quick since I'm kind of uncomfortable right now. I've been taking 1-3mg of buprenorphine daily for 2 weeks or so. I took a break from it this weekend and haven't taken since friday because I wanted to try some codeine I just recieved. I took 300mg of codeine this afternoon and it doing nothing but making my face red an giving me horrible histamine itches all over my body. It is really uncomfortable. And I didn't get any opiate buzz from it whatsoever, which really suprised me since I'm not a regular opiate user, I've just been binging on bupe for 2 weeks, like I said.

So my question is, can I take 2-3mg of bupe right now, knock the codeine off the receptors, stop this horrible histamine reaction, and still get my nice bupe effects? In other worse, can I totally negate the codeine effects if I took some buprenorphine right now? My understanding was that bupe has a strong affinity so it knocks off other opiates off the receptors. So if I took some now, couldn't I stop these horrible codeine effects AND get my usual bupe buzz?

 

[sneakdiss]

Yeah if you dose your sub now it will overtake the codeine and you'll be buzzing off that.

It's really hard to catch a buzz off codeine if you haven't been clean for about a week from sub.

 

[Dr.Strange.Love]

^ Are you sure? I'd love to hear some more opinions on this before I take the bupe since I don't want to go into WDs or kill myself or anything. Basically it comes down to this: Do you have to be an opiate addict to go into precipitated withdrawls? Because I've only taken small (relatively speaking) doses of bupe for 2 weeks, so I wouldn't consider myself addicted. I know how precipitated withdrawls work, but could it happen to someone like me who is relatively opiate niave?

I really want to take this bupe and see if it makes these nasty codeine effects go away. Anyone else able to chime in on this?

 

[johanneschimpo]

If you took bupe right now, while on codeine, you would go into forced withdrawal, at least for a while (1-2 hours maybe), then you would feel your "usual bupe buzz"
You'd have to wait a while to take bupe without it making you sicki wait until you can't feel the codeine at all and start to feel WDs creeping in.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

You'll experience precipitated WD.

Codeine is a pro-drug of morphine; and the buprenorphine will kick the morphine off of the receptors, rendering you very sick and dysphoric.

You'd have to wait a while to take bupe without it making you sicki wait until you can't feel the codeine at all and start to feel WDs creeping in.

+1

Basically it comes down to this: Do you have to be an opiate addict to go into precipitated withdrawls? Because I've only taken small (relatively speaking) doses of bupe for 2 weeks, so I wouldn't consider myself addicted. I know how precipitated withdrawls work, but could it happen to someone like me who is relatively opiate niave?

I really want to take this bupe and see if it makes these nasty codeine effects go away. Anyone else able to chime in on this?

No, you don't have to be an addict. I watched someone take hydrocodone for ONE DAY, then try suboxone while still being on hydrocodone. They went into precipitated WD's.

If you've taken "small" doses of buprenorphine for 2 weeks, that means you have a mild, or moderate, opiate tolerance. I'm not calling you an addict, but that doesn't matter; you will still have precipitated withdrawals.

And you're not opiate naive. Opiate naive people don't take buprenorphine for 2 weeks.

 

[Dr.Strange.Love]

You'll experience precipitated WD.

Codeine is a pro-drug of morphine; and the buprenorphine will kick the morphine off of the receptors, rendering you very sick and dysphoric.



+1



No, you don't have to be an addict. I watched someone take hydrocodone for ONE DAY, then try suboxone while still being on hydrocodone. They went into precipitated WD's.

If you've taken "small" doses of buprenorphine for 2 weeks, that means you have a mild, or moderate, opiate tolerance. I'm not calling you an addict, but that doesn't matter; you will still have precipitated withdrawals.

And you're not opiate naive. Opiate naive people don't take buprenorphine for 2 weeks.

But that seems backwards to me. I thought people go into precipitated withdrawls because the buprenorphine kicks off the current opiate they are on and results in a drastic reduction of opiates bound to their receptors. But I am used to 1-3mg of bupe. So if I took 1-3mg of bupe right now, yes it would kick the codeine off but it would replace the codeine with what I usually take. Wouldn't it be like me taking my normal dose that i've been taking for 2 weeks? I don't understand how I would go into withdrawls when I'd be taking the equivalent amount that my body is used to taking....

 

[Captain.Heroin]

But that seems backwards to me. I thought people go into precipitated withdrawls because the buprenorphine kicks off the current opiate they are on and results in a drastic reduction of opiates bound to their receptors. But I am used to 1-3mg of bupe. So if I took 1-3mg of bupe right now, yes it would kick the codeine off but it would replace the codeine with what I usually take. Wouldn't it be like me taking my normal dose that i've been taking for 2 weeks? I don't understand how I would go into withdrawls when I'd be taking the equivalent amount that my body is used to taking....

It's not kicking the "codeine" off.

You didn't hear me.

Codeine is a pro-drug for morphine.

This means, morphine is on your receptors. Codeine is a low-potency opiate, so there isn't a whole shit ton of morphine on your receptors like heroin would deliver, but it's still there nonetheless.

It is going to kick the morphine off of the receptor, and this in itself will produce precipitated WD's. It will not just "replace it" like magic, it's going to be a rough, long transition. That, or it'll just be mildly or moderately discomforting, depending on a few things.

Your body isn't used to taking it if it's on morphine, it's used to the morphine. So, you need to let the morphine naturally jump off the receptor before you put something else up there.

If you make morphine and buprenorphine compete for the receptor, this is what's going to cause precipitated WD's in and of itself. This is what's going to make you puke, feel shitty, and probably agitated/dysphoric.

Just wait a day or two after the codeine has stopped effecting you, then take buprenorphine.

 

[PillPoppingAnimal]

I'd love an answer to this question real quick since I'm kind of uncomfortable right now. I've been taking 1-3mg of buprenorphine daily for 2 weeks or so. I took a break from it this weekend and haven't taken since friday because I wanted to try some codeine I just recieved. I took 300mg of codeine this afternoon and it doing nothing but making my face red an giving me horrible histamine itches all over my body. It is really uncomfortable. And I didn't get any opiate buzz from it whatsoever, which really suprised me since I'm not a regular opiate user, I've just been binging on bupe for 2 weeks, like I said.

So my question is, can I take 2-3mg of bupe right now, knock the codeine off the receptors, stop this horrible histamine reaction, and still get my nice bupe effects? In other worse, can I totally negate the codeine effects if I took some buprenorphine right now? My understanding was that bupe has a strong affinity so it knocks off other opiates off the receptors. So if I took some now, couldn't I stop these horrible codeine effects AND get my usual bupe buzz?

if ur not a regular opiate user, than what the fuck are u doin taking bupe

first off bupe is meant for opiod dependance

2nd- bupe sucks to get high off

3rd bupe is WAY too strong for someone who isnt opiod dependant

ur tolerence is probably around 50mg oxy right now

 

[Psykoton]

I take Temgesic 0.4 mg tabs, 2 tabs 3 times a day on a regular basis for pain. I use tramadol (100-150mg) or codeine (90-120mg) for breakthrough pain a couple of times/week, and they both work although I'm taking the bupe.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

That's because you're on a low dose of buprenorphine. Introducing a quarter milligram of buprenorphine will most likely not block the effects of codeine, it's a very small dose.

3mg sublingually equates to 0.9mg, which is more than 3 times your dose.

Not only that, but going from buprenorphine to mu-agonists is a lot easier than vice versa for some reason.

 

[sneakdiss]

I honestly don't think you have a bad enough habit to go into any precipitated withdrawal. Especially when the opiate you've taken is codeine. I really doubt the bupe will do anything nasty to you. I've taken bupe 7 hours after an oxy dose and felt great.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

Its 3 hours later so this probably isn't an issue, but I just wanted to throw out there that if the histamine is bothering you, you can always take an antihistamine. This generally will help when opiates (codeine especially) cause a histamine release and make you itchy. You might already know this so if so, i'm not trying to insult your intelligence, just throw it out there in case and for anyone reading this in the future.

 

[Dr.Strange.Love]

Well those of you that said it wouldn't have any problems were right! Which is exactly what I thought. About 2.5 hrs after taking the codeine, I took 3mg of buprenorphine and now I feel great. After taking the bupe, the codeine effects disappeared and bupe high kicked in like normal. It's like I never even took the nasty codeine.

This what I believed would happen. It doesn't make any sense that a person would go into precipitated withdrawl if they could not go into NORMAL withdrawl in the first place. To Captain Heroin, I don't believe your story about someone taking hydrocodone once and then taking bupe and going into precipitated withdrawl. That is impossible. Your friend either got sick from the sub or it was something else. I did some reading online, and the agonist/partial agonst system for bupe works pretty much as straight forward as I said earlier. It simply kicks off your opiate of choice and replaces it on the receptors due to its higher affinity. But its lower efficacy than the previous opiate throws the user into withdrawl. It would be like all of a sudden yanking all opiates out of their body. But if someone like me, who usually uses bupe, replaces it with another drug for a day then immediately uses bupe after taking that other drug, all the bupe does is remove that other drug and bring you back to where you usually are when taking your bupe.

The same thing would happen if a person was addicted to 15mg of morphine/day or 15mg of hydrocodone per day and they took 6mg of sub all at once. That's a bigger dose of opiates then their addiction, and they would probably get high or even sick, but they wouldn't go into withdrawl.

Hopefully that makes sense, and hopefully this can help someone else if they ever have the same question.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Try it then, take a 7.5mg hydrocodone and then take your 3mg of suboxone a single hour later. Please.

You WILL go into precipitated WD's if you do that.

I guess the codeine wasn't enough morphine on the receptors to cause a precipitated WD.

I've never had precipitated WD's, but I've witnessed people go through them.

 

[Dr.Strange.Love]

Try it then, take a 7.5mg hydrocodone and then take your 3mg of suboxone a single hour later. Please.

You WILL go into precipitated WD's if you do that.

I guess the codeine wasn't enough morphine on the receptors to cause a precipitated WD.

I've never had precipitated WD's, but I've witnessed people go through them.

Like I said, I'm fairly certain you have to be addicted to an opiate to be able to go into precipitated withdrawls. Precipitated withdrawls are just what their name sounds like. They are withdrawls brought on precipitously. So if you aren't addicted to an opiate, you can't go into withdrawls. Period. If someone took one 7.5 hydrocodone when they haven't taken any opiates before, and then took 3mg of buprenorphine an hour later, they would become extremeley sick with an OD on the bupe. That is a waaaaaay high dose for an opiate naive person. When they took that 3mg, that 7.5mg of hydrocodone would be forgotten and they would be vomiting and being sick with all the symptoms of an OD from taking too high a dose of opiate.

Buprenorphine isn't magical, it IS an opiate. It is just a partial agonst, a partial agonists act as antagonists in the presence of a lot of agonists. 3mg of bupe for an opiate naive person is a dangerous dose. There would not be any precipitated withdrawls or anything like that in that situation. The person would just be extremely, dangerously high on opiates.

 

[monstanoodle]

12hrs is a good time to wait.

 

[Mr Blonde]

I agree that someone who isn't an addict wouldn't experience precipitated WD if they took hydrocodone during the day and then took bupe. It would just cancel out the hydrocodone and would quite possibly piss them off.

Regarding the effects of codeine in your first post; it's possible you are enzyme deficient and so didn't get much morphine out of codeine. Codeine itself causes a nasty histamine reaction, and I don't think bupe is going to help because whilst codeine is a full agonist, it has little affinity for opioid receptors and so isn't binding to them much so bupe isn't going to kick much actual codeine off. Get an anti-histamine for next time.

 

[QuasiStoned]

Shit dude you're not gonna feel very good coming after a 2 week buprenorphine binge...

 

[Dr.Strange.Love]

Shit dude you're not gonna feel very good coming after a 2 week buprenorphine binge...

We'll see. Today is the last dose. About 3mg. I can't imagine 2 weeks of 1-3mg is going to make me too uncomfortable.

 

[Bavanai]

If you aren't dependent on opioids (you ONLY took bupe two weeks and the codeine now) then the only ethical advice I can give you is to stop now before it's too late. Right now you're in a spot where a benzo and some clonidine will make the w/d almost unnoticeable. Take advantage of this.