• Welcome Guest

    Forum Guidelines Bluelight Rules
    Fun 💃 Threads Overdosed? Click
    D R U G   C U L T U R E

Quinine, Strychnine & Heroin, an oral history

rachamim said:
Cretination:"Sweet in taste.": That is because you and your friends are not doing unadulterated (pure) heroin. You are tasting various sugars used to bulk it up (lactose being the most common).
Click to expand...

ummm yes, we WERE doing pure, lab-grade heroin hcl...
 
Tchort: Alot of people REPEAT the claim about Hepatitis but, as I said, if you do not rely on secondary sources, such as that anecdotal report, you will find absolutely nothing about any Heptatis outbreak in the given time persiod, in NYC, let alone one among addicts.

As I also said, if you research Tsientsien and the first importations (into the US) you will see why quinine was used, and why addicts desired its inclusion in illicit forms (i.e. " it represented what THEY believed to be the actual taste of heroin").

"Helpern Article.": Yep, but not in 1931 when IDU began, and THAT is the issue. BUT, we do know that quinine was compounded in Red Pills, and through its inclusion as a standard adulterant in #3 we know that it was important enough a constitioent to remain compounded 60 years after the end of the Tsientsien trade, by people who associated it with quality heroin.

Anecdotally we see reams of addicts in HK, Amsterdam, Kuala Lampur, Bangkok and...in non-smokers BUT SC/IM users we see that it was perceived to be "the real taste of 'pure heroin'."

Lotsof? Well, I do not want to disparage somone who has done more than I have in the defence of Harm Reduction, so let me just say "everyone has opinions." Anecdotal Evidence can be extremely valuable when combine with corroborating evidence. In the case of his comment and your belief, I have not seen it any Seizure Report, nor in any technical article/report. I could add my own subjective experience, but I would be the last person to place any value on it.

On that specific claim (of his)? I really do not want to cut the man down but he is not saying anything. It is total nonsense. Hepabarbital? IF he is talking about Bangkok but, in that case he would be talking about POM on #3. Quinine, at most, was compounded in an 80:20, and usually 85:15 ( Lactose: Quinine). It's price was never an issue because when you adulterate an ounce of heroin, or any amaount really, the return is astronomical. You are talkimg about literally garbage bags of money off of 1 Unit. A flucutating price for an adulterant is not going to matter on your bottom line enough to try and experiment on your bread and butter.

On the last post, thr ampoules are in saline, no powder to taste so of course the poster must be making a joke...

Tchort: I can see ypu are really into it, perhaps later I will post some things to look out. If not today, than tomorrow.

You do not realise it but your article on "Chasing the Dragon" disproves your assertion. It is dealing with Amsterdam, long considered the epicenter of the phenomenon in Europe, in the days long before #2 had cornered the Western European trade. They were importing large amounts of #3. #3 compounded quinine at POM for a very good reason: Tsientsien.

The issue of Procaine in THAT article is of no consequence to the issue you and I are discussing, the use of THAT adulterant in NYC, or alternatively US heroin. The article correctly states that it was used on adulteration off #2, a form very rarely seen in the US.

To take it further, #3 was never imported into the US in any real amount so the Dutch Experience, while interesting, is of no consequence to the US Experience.

Look into the Licit Chinese Trade (which includes technically Illicit on paper as well though it was employing the same Rx factories in production in the latter part of that time period) from 1910 to 1940.

The "Red Pills," the importation of bulk powders into the US, and especially yhe history of Intravenous Use in the US.
 
Tchort said:
Meaning you acquired a Diamorphine reformulation ampoule from a country that still uses them? And tasted the powder? . . .
Click to expand...

no. i worked in a behavioral pharmacology lab running a daily heroin (sometimes other opioids) self-admin procedure using animals. since i also made up the stock solutions i needed access to the heroin hcl powder (i worked alone in that lab so i decided the stock concentrations)...

On the last post, thr ampoules are in saline, no powder to taste so of course the poster must be making a joke...
Click to expand...

you'll know when i make a joke cause you will be on the ground laughing hysterically. i added saline TO the pure powder so yes there was powder to taste and yes it tasted delicious.

and adding saline to a drug never changed the taste of the solution, unless the h2o was evaporated and then it'd taste a bit salty... even still, salty is different from bitter.
 
For those who are not familiar with the "Red Pills", here is an interesting overview article on the subject from the UNODC Bulletin, circa 1953.

The Mysterious Heroin Pills for Smoking

Abstract

In the 1920's and 1930's a very peculiar use of drugs sprang up in the Far East, grew to enormous proportions, and spread to the United States and other countries, before it partially died down again. This was the use of "red pills" or "heroin pills" in lieu of smoking opium.

Pages: 49 to 54
Creation Date: 1953/01/01

In the 1920's and 1930's a very peculiar use of drugs sprang up in the Far East, grew to enormous proportions, and spread to the United States and other countries, before it partially died down again. This was the use of "red pills" or "heroin pills" in lieu of smoking opium.

These pills were strange mixtures, generally containing such ingredients as heroin, caffeine, a cinchona alkaloid (quinine, cinchonine, or cinchonidine), strychnine, and aspirin or salicylic acid, mixed with starch, cane sugar or milk sugar (lactose), a delicate perfume, and a little dye to colour the pills. They were commonly coloured red or pink, but sometimes black, yellow, or simply dingy white. They were smoked, not in the usual opium pipe, but usually in a vase specially adapted to the purpose. Their effect was much disputed then, and is still highly mysterious.

It is said that the first seizure of those pills took place in Shanghai in 1921, and that at first they were taken by mouth, as a "general tonic," rather than being smoked. However, they were extensively smoked within a few years.

In 1925 a sensational article appeared in the North China Daily News (Shanghai) concerning the new pills, in which it was stated that 5,000 ounces of strychnine and 2,000 pounds of caffeine were being imported into China each month for the manufacture of so-called "anti-opium pills" containing heroin. The general formula was given as follows: Heroin hydrochloride 2 oz. 2 drachms, strychnine nitrate ? oz., quinine sulfate 1 oz., caffeine 5 oz., milk sugar 48 oz., refined sugar 16 oz. With gum and water to "mass" this made about 10,000 pills of about 4? to 5 grains each.

The newspaper article stated: "It is true that as an 'anti' opium pill, the new product serves its purpose. It does in most cases lead to the abandonment of opium, but for the reason that the new 'smoke' is more attractive, more potent in its effect as a stimulant, and, in its effect on the system of the smoker, more deadly." An expert estimated that "the average life of an addict to the new habit can only be about four years." This opinion was one extreme; other experts have been unable to see how the pills could have any effect at all--as will be related later.

The International Anti-Opium Association at Peking, China, called the attention of the League of Nations to the situation. It was mentioned that "(This) is not the type of morphia pill used by the average Chinese addict, who has changed from opium to morphine. The latter pill is simply a mixture of morphia and household flour, and is crude in both form and manufacture." It was shown that imports through the Customs at Shanghai amounted to 48,236 pounds of caffeine and 2,701 pounds of strychnine in 1923, and 22,234 pounds of caffeine and 1,304 pounds of strychnine in 1924-almost all supposed to have been used in the manufacture of heroin pills.

J. F. Macfarlan and Co., a British drug house, had been making large shipments of strychnine nitrate to China, but at this time, learning of the use to which it was put, discontinued all sales of both strychnine and caffeine to China.

The general formula given by the North China Daily News--and on the whole it was confirmed later by actual analyses--indicated that approximately 20,500 pounds of heroin--10? tons--must have been used in 1923 just to make these pills. As the seizures of heroin coming into China in 1923 had totalled nearly a ton, an illegal importation of more than 10 tons seemed quite possible. (However, in later years the proportion of heroin to caffeine in the pills was generally lower than was assumed in this calculation.)

In 1923 there was so little effective control over narcotics that this and other huge amounts of heroin escaping from control had probably been manufactured "legitimately" in Europe. After the 1925 Convention went into effect (in 1928), such diversion was rapidly reduced. The narcotics dealers, however, began to manufacture heroin illicitly in China itself (and in other countries), and the use of the "heroin pills" continued to spread.

In 1926 Dr. Knaffl-Lenz of Austria was asked to examine some of the pills for the League of Nations. He reported that they weighed about 0.25 gramme each, and contained 2.76 per cent heroin, 0.69 per cent strychnine nitrate, 1.38 per cent quinine sulfate, and 6.87 per cent caffeine, with some 66 per cent lactose and 22 per cent cane sugar. His experiments on the smokes "showed that in the combustion of smoking opium, as much as 15 per cent of the morphine contained in the opium passed into the smoke, but that in the combustion of anti-opium pills neitherstrychnine norheroin norquinine passes into the smoke; (but the smoke) contains up to 40 per cent of the caffeine content of the pills." (O.C.341(c)).

Dr. Knaffl-Lenz added that "The serious injury to the health of chronic smokers, said to result after a few years in death, is not on the face of it explicable .... The effect of the smoke is primarily due to caffeine."

The first seizures of such pills in Hong Kong took place in 1928. These pills contained 2 milligrammes of heroin each, and were otherwise composed of lactose with caffeine and traces of strychnine; coloured pink, and about the size of a pea. It was said that they could be bought in Shanghai at the price of $14 per bag of 10,000 pills, and could be sold in Canton at $20 per bag. The retail price was said to be one cent per pill. In 1928, the seizure in Hong Kong totalled about 200,000 pills. (O.C.862).

A "pipe" for smoking these pills was described as "cleverly constructed out of a small porcelain vase, into the neck of which a bamboo tube had been inserted, a hole being drilled in the side of the vase to hold the pill."
Click to expand...

This is only a small portion of the full article. The rest can be read at this link:

http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/bulletin/bulletin_1953-01-01_2_page012.html
 
I am impressed you stuck with it. There is alot of materiel out there on it. The pills continued, albeit illicirly until the early 1950s in HK and Malaysia/Singapore. Then, they began producing #3 which was really just an oblong tablet. Instead of using pill mols or bins in large runs, they simply used 2 to 3 types consecutively sized screens to produce uniformly sized "grains."

Like Pills, they dyed them as well: Red Rooster, Pearl, they had a yellow brand and so on. Until 2 years ago they still had #3 in Malaysia, 1 in province but I have not heard of any since. Sad in a way, a piece of history.
 
Definitely. It's sad that so many trends have come and gone with little more than passive references. The only sources we have for drug culture are basically trip reports and memoir/blog style writings by current and former users to piece it all together.
 
I'm under the impression that strychnine is not used to cut production dope. It is a poison that is lethal even in small dosages. Why would dealers want to kill their own customers? I think it's a myth created to scare people away from using drugs.
 
bwink said:
I'm under the impression that strychnine is not used to cut production dope. It is a poison that is lethal even in small dosages. Why would dealers want to kill their own customers? I think it's a myth created to scare people away from using drugs.
Click to expand...

If you read the post you would see that the inclusion of Strychnine with Heroin is certainly not a myth.

To sum up:

Strychnine was used in what was then modern medicine for a variety of conditions. Strychnine is a very bitter tasting white powder that (if I remember correctly) increases volatilization of opioids when chased (vaporized) and increases the intensity and/or quality of the rush from IV injection. This is because Strychnine, like Quinine, Procaine, Lidocaine, etc are all mild CNS stimulants. Originally Stychnine was combined with Heroin and chased, and for awhile Strychnine was a cut in street Heroin after IV administration became the prominent way to use Heroin.

It seems that around the time that the medical community stopped using Strychnine, so did the dealers from using it as an additive to Heroin.
 
Nope.....Again, it was used in licit compounds of heroin from the Tsientsien/Shanghai trade. When the authorities began putting licit producers out of business, dealers began obtaining bulk powder and #3 Heroin was borb.

#3, if you will again look at the paper above about the Shanghai "Red Pills," has about the same composition even down to the coloured dyes at POM (Point of Manufacture).

Quinine and strychnine became so ingrained in user consciousness that it was simply retained as a hallmark of quality.

People were fond of "Red Pills," they associated Red Pill taste with quality heroin, ergo #3 sought to duplicate this consumer association of Strychnine and Quinine representing "High Quality Heroin," and this association has continued until very recently.

Now, in terms of NYC heroin....At the point where Tsientsien began shutting down the Rx Heroin plants, Jewish Smugglers were coming in droves to take advantage of US Prohibition.

Towards the late 20s Italians who coexisted with Jews (usually subservient to Jews) began picking up more of the retail end of the trade as Jews either got out of it altogether or more usually relegated their roles to Importation and First Tier Wholesale dealers.

It was then that NYC heroin, and by relation almost all US heroin began dropping dramaticaly in purity. Obviously seeing how Asian consumers (AND dealers) associated "purity" with
quinine/strychnine, they saw a way to increase profit without really losing cache.

Tchort: Try to find actual literature showing that either strychnine or quinine increases lipid solubility.

See, the "rush" is merely the cascade of chemicals crossing the BBB with
speed/efficiency. IF a substance is not aiding in that crossover, it is not "increasing the rush."

Lipid solubility is the principle that effects a substance's ability to cross the BBB.

Strychine was never really used in NYC (in heroin), ever. IT WAS used in SE Asia until 2 years ago (and it is possible it is still present but under the radar), and western Europe until the early 80s.

Strychnine was only ever used in the 2nd percentile and usually alot less. It was used, in both cases I just mentioned, in conjunction with other substances, and was always in vapour so that you have to take all those factors into consideration when thinking about the lethality of strychnine, etc.

Stimulants do NOT cause a "rush" SOME stimulants corssing the BBB cause a "rush" and so when examining any substance, including CNS stimulants, you need to look at individual characteristics.
 
I would like to know about the physiological effects from shooting the 'caine' cuts. I have a weird weird heroin source that I was going to, but after a week or two of this abnormally strong street dope I began getting splitting headaches and migraines, which I've never had before, as did my boy. Upon cessation of that source symptoms stopped. This doesn't sound like a 'caine' drug because it doesn't numb when the powder is licked BUT the rush feels like a two-compound shot. I know what heroin feels like shot and this produces a completely seperate feeling in the throat of intense heat and numbness. Are these symptoms consistant with 'caine or other active cut?
 
ToxicFerret said:
I would like to know about the physiological effects from shooting the 'caine' cuts. I have a weird weird heroin source that I was going to, but after a week or two of this abnormally strong street dope I began getting splitting headaches and migraines, which I've never had before, as did my boy. Upon cessation of that source symptoms stopped. This doesn't sound like a 'caine' drug because it doesn't numb when the powder is licked BUT the rush feels like a two-compound shot. I know what heroin feels like shot and this produces a completely seperate feeling in the throat of intense heat and numbness. Are these symptoms consistant with 'caine or other active cut?
Click to expand...

No it doesn't sound like any of the 'Caine drugs. There are a number of pharmalogically active cuts used commonly: What you describe could be from Inositol, Sorbitol, etc. It could be absolutely anything.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top