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    methadone detox cold turkey in jail 
    #1
    So, lets someone is on MMT and is currently on 160mg/day. This person is on probation. This person was using opiates, which was obviously against the rules of their probation. This person has a long history of opiate abuse/dependancy. So this person decided to get on MMT. This person never told their probation officer they were using in the first place, and has not the probation officer that they are now on MMT. So, if the PO finds out this person is on MMT, who knows what their reaction would be. Suppose the PO flips out, and violates this persons' probation, or sanctions them or whatever, which means straight to jail, do not pass go. The jails where this person lives do not give out methadone to people who were on MMT. So, essentially this person would be detoxing cold turkey from 160mg. However, say this person was able to put about 15 suboxone 8mg pills in a keyster egg and get them inside the jail. How long would this person need to suffer and wait in jail before attempting to take some suboxone to ease the suffering?
     

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    #2
    Methadone maintenance is not a violation of parole or probation. Same goes for Buprenorphine maintenance. It is not considered a drug violation, it is legitimate legal treatment.

    A person cannot be denied a job or fired for being on MMT or BMT, you cannot be sent to jail for being on it either, on probation or parole or not.

    A related point is something everyone on BMT and MMT should always keep in mind:

    In the United States, if you are a patient in good standing with MMT or BMT, and you are arrested and put in jail and then prison for a crime, you will not continue to receive your Methadone or Buprenorphine, and will be forced to undergo cold turkey withdrawal in a cell, or if you are very lucky, the prison or jail infirmery (handcuffed to a gourney and be given only Ibuprofen and possibly too little a dose of Clonidine or Diazepam).

    I understand that some pilot programs are testing the use of Methadone and/or Buprenorphine in the prison environment, and it is very possible that some states or counties do allow continued treatment.

    But as a general rule, do not assume your jail or prison is going to let you continue your treatment, despite your good standing in the program or how long you've been on it, or even if it is totally unrelated to the crime you've committed (i.e. not a drug offence).

    Several cases have made it to the higher courts in this country about it, and one case from the '70s states that a person who is put in holding is entitled to continue their Methadone treatment because they have not been found guilty of a crime, but for persons who have been found guilty and incarcerated, no such 'right' has been established.

    In most of Europe, you guys are lucky. There are prison needle exchange programs, prison Methadone and prison Buprenorphine programs for people who were in treatment before being incarcerated and those who were addicted to Heroin coming into prison.
     

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    #3
    yes you can. it all depends on the parole/probationer. some probation officers will absolutely not allow their clients to be on MMT.
     

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    #4
    Bluelighter hazmat's Avatar
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    Ok first I've done this twice. Tell your P.O. if you still can. Get a note from the doctor who runs your clinic. The P.O. cannot order you off it, it is a medical issue. Trust me on this, I've learned about the legal system the hard way. Second, if you do get locked up DO NOT SNEAK IN YOUR SUBOXONE!!!! If you are caught it will be another charge, and it will be a felony and most likely carry an active sentence in your states DOC. Third, when you go to jail let the nurses know, some jails have detox programs, others are cold turkey. The jail in my county uses librium or phenobarbital depending on what your detoxing from and also vistaril, clonodine, etc... This situation sucks but I've been through it two times. My advice let your P.O. know if you still have time. If not don't risk another charge, do it the legal way. I wish you the best of luck.
     

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    #5
    BL Ambassador Captain.Heroin's Avatar
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    You'd have to go through heavy WD's of methadone to even switch over anyways.

    Get into the WD's in jail, there'll be someone with heroin there.
     

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    #6
    Bluelighter a100unitSHOT's Avatar
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    A long fuckin time. Methadone is the worst possible drug to try and switch to Subs off of. At LEAST three days.
     

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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by designed_reality View Post
    yes you can. it all depends on the parole/probationer. some probation officers will absolutely not allow their clients to be on MMT.
    Anyone with a situation like this should absolutely contact a lawyer. I bet the ACLU would take a case like this pro bono. You cannot be denied legal, legitimate medical treatment (that is considered the golden standard for treating opioid addiction by the AMA) by the criminal justice system. I don't doubt that people (probation officers and co.) try to pull this kind of shit, but it is not legal for them to do so.
     

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    #8
    post a new thread in the legal issues forum and see what they have to say... or I can transfer this one over to legal matters... up to you.
    Just remember don't ask "can I be on MMT?"... you have to say the doctor has put you on the treatment. Take yourself out of the equation so it's not your decisions they can nail (so to speak)
     

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    #9
    In my city they give you a 21 day detox if your in jail.
     

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    #10
    Unfortunately, I been to jail a few times. The first time I went to jail it was catapres, zyprexa, and kolonopin. I think it was 14 or 21 days. The next few times I went in it was just catapres and kolonopin and Im pretty sure it was 14 days. Think people were wigging out from the Zyprexa. I know I watched some dude start going insane my first time in and he was w/d'ng too. They take away the kolonopin at some point in the regiment too, cant remember at what point, you know time flies when you're having fun, lol.

    I slept 6 months away on Seroquil, hehe.

    Dont know if keestering something is a great idea, you gotta bend over and spread them cheeks when you get booked. Guess it just depends on how dedicated to the "job" the CO that books you is, he might be all up in your butt with a flashlight and shit and other guys didnt even make me hand over my boxer shorts for jail issued drawers.
     

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    #11
    Bluelighter Artificial Emotion's Avatar
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    If you go to jail or prison and they force you to WD cold turkey I would sue them as soon as you get out. Here in the UK they changed the system and started methadone maintenance programs after numerous people took them to court. They got very large sums of money in compensation as well. In my opinion it is a blatent breach of your fundamental human rights.
     

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    #12
    Bluelighter fatstep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredPA View Post

    Dont know if keestering something is a great idea, you gotta bend over and spread them cheeks when you get booked. Guess it just depends on how dedicated to the "job" the CO that books you is, he might be all up in your butt with a flashlight and shit and other guys didnt even make me hand over my boxer shorts for jail issued drawers.
    Don't know what kind of jail you went to, but in my county they don't even watch you take your clothes off, make you spread your cheeks, grab your balls..nothing. And yes this is in intake it's easier to bring things into jail than it is to hide from police that're powertripping searching everyone..
     

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    #13
    Bluelighter SZodiac's Avatar
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    Hope it works out ok for whomever but it's not gonna be easy. I was only on 40mg of methadone when I was switched over to subo's and it wasn't in jail. They said too wait till I was really sick before trying any subo. That means 3 days! I got through to almost 2 days and went for it. Brutal. Instantly worse. It really took 3 days(after the 2) before the subo's were able too help at all. By the 4th day, they were working ok but no subo's are ever gonna be like 160mgs. of methadone.
     

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    #14
    Bluelighter Artificial Emotion's Avatar
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    When you guys say they make you spread your cheeks, do they actually look up your anal cavity? I was thinking that if you were to stick it up your rectum then spreading your ass cheeks or even squatting would not reveal the contents of your rectum at all, would it?

    By the way, I do not think that you need to be in 'serious' withdrawal in order to commence buprenorphine and avoid precipitated withdrawal. According to the manufacturer itself, you are required to abstain from opiates like heroin or opioids like methadone only until you are in mild to moderate withdrawal before taking a small initial dose of buprenorphine (i.e. around 2mg). Then after this, further doses are taken afterwards until the patient is stabilized (which happens for the vast majority of individuals at a low dose around 2-8mg, although many doctors have a tendency to dose high even though much lower doses would actually suffice. When I personally switched from a dose of 40mg methadone to buprenorphine I only needed a dose of 4mg, although I'm confident that I would've managed okay on as small a dose as 2-3mg.
    Last edited by Artificial Emotion; 02-05-2009 at 22:48.
     

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    #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artificial Emotion View Post
    When you guys say they make you spread your cheeks, do they actually look up your anal cavity? I was thinking that if you were to stick it up your rectum then spreading your ass cheeks or even squatting would not reveal the contents of your rectum at all, would it?

    By the way, I do not think that you need to be in 'serious' withdrawal in order to commence buprenorphine and avoid precipitated withdrawal. According to the manufacturer itself, you are required to abstain from opiates like heroin or opioids like methadone only until you are in mild to moderate withdrawal before taking a small initial dose of buprenorphine (i.e. around 2mg). Then after this, further doses are taken afterwards until the patient is stabilized (which happens for the vast majority of individuals at a low dose around 2-8mg, although many doctors have a tendency to dose high even though much lower doses would actually suffice. When I personally switched from a dose of 40mg methadone to buprenorphine I only needed a dose of 4mg, although I'm confident that I would've managed okay on as small a dose as 2-3mg.
    they make you spread your cheeks, bend down, and cough so that if anything is up your ass it will come out. they do not actually look up your butthole. then they make you wait forever to see a doctor, it takes about 15 hours to just process in untill you even get to go to your cell. then it takes a few more days to even see a doctor who aint gonna give you $hit anyways. thats how it goes in "CROOK COUNTY", Cook county, Chicago, IL.
     

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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by nelsonmandela View Post
    So, lets someone is on MMT and is currently on 160mg/day. This person is on probation. This person was using opiates, which was obviously against the rules of their probation. This person has a long history of opiate abuse/dependancy. So this person decided to get on MMT. This person never told their probation officer they were using in the first place, and has not the probation officer that they are now on MMT. So, if the PO finds out this person is on MMT, who knows what their reaction would be. Suppose the PO flips out, and violates this persons' probation, or sanctions them or whatever, which means straight to jail, do not pass go. The jails where this person lives do not give out methadone to people who were on MMT. So, essentially this person would be detoxing cold turkey from 160mg. However, say this person was able to put about 15 suboxone 8mg pills in a keyster egg and get them inside the jail. How long would this person need to suffer and wait in jail before attempting to take some suboxone to ease the suffering?
    gotta love this...

    ok so hes good if hes got subs, hows longs he in for?

    15subs CAN last u 30 days, probably wont happen tho since 160mg methadone im pretty sure is a hefty fucking amount....first week or so is gonna be HELL, even with 8mgs a day, granted he takes that. he most likely will take 16mgs a day which is the highest anyone should go, and if they need more then its mental and that sucks and they should wean down b4 hitting the subs.

    he should just com eclean and tell jail hes on methadone or his probation officer

    if hes already got a record for opiate abuse, than wtf is there to hide, or whats there to be embarist, cops know how addicts are, they are taught that shit... tell hjim to come clean, they nkow hes an addicted loser fuck already.
     

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    #17
    Bluelighter Kenaz's Avatar
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    First of all, nobody on here can give you any kind of useful legal advice concerning your probation officer and MMT. To the best of my knowledge, none of us here are lawyers. Neither do we know what jurisdiction you are in, or what the rules of probation and parole are in your area.

    That being said: if you're caught smuggling opiates into jail, you're likely to be hit with a pretty serious felony charge on top of whatever you're already facing. Withdrawing from methadone in jail is going to suck: withdrawing from methadone and facing an extra 2-5 years of prison time because you got caught with a buttload (sorry) of suboxone is going to suck a whole lot worse.

    If I were in your shoes, I would talk to a criminal defense attorney before bringing the subject up with my probation officer. S/he could provide you a far more informed response than anyone on Bluelight.
     

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    #18
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    There should be absolutely no problem if you take his legit script up to the jail, to get him his medication. I did it for my brother when he went to jail, except I brought him his script for Norco/Valium. He recieved his medication 3 times daily until he got out. The only bad part is that he was unable to get the rest of his medication out when he was released.
     

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    #19
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    Here in australia they offer MMT in jails - alot of inmates are opiate dependant and it's completely illegal to ignore the need for relief from this kind of affliction.

    if they forced you into prison, and then put you through the absolute worst kind of punishment around then surely you could sue them for ignoring human rights
     

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    #20
    Bluelighter Artificial Emotion's Avatar
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    I think denying someone their opioid substitute medication can be considered 'cruel and unusual punishment'

    Wikipedia says:

    These exact words later appeared in the Eighth Amendment to the United States Constitution (1787). The British Slavery Amelioration Act of 1798 also used the term, forbidding slave owners from using "cruel and unusual punishment" on slaves in the British Caribbean colonies.

    Very similar words ('No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment') appear in Article Five of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights adopted by the United Nations General Assembly (A/RES/217, December 10, 1948 ). The right, under a different formulation ('No one shall be subjected to [...] inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.') is found in Article Three of the European Convention on Human Rights (1950). The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (1982) also contains this fundamental right in section 12 and it is to be found again in Article Four (quoting the European Convention verbatim) of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union (2000). It is also found in Article 16 of the Convention against Torture and other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment.
     

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    #21
    Bluelighter Kenaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artificial Emotion View Post
    I think denying someone their opioid substitute medication can be considered 'cruel and unusual punishment'
    That may be the case, but many American jails and prisons do not offer MMT and expect inmates to detox "cold turkey" upon entry. So far as I know, there hasn't yet been a case in an American court which specifically requires prisons to offer MMT. (If there has, I welcome any correction: this is one case where'd I'd be very happy to be proven wrong).

    That's why the OP really needs to talk to a criminal defense attorney who is familiar with the rules of his jurisdiction. Free advice on this forum is worth what he is paying for it... and might wind up costing him a great deal if it happens to be wrong.

    EDIT: here's an article from January 2007 which suggests that MMT programs in American prisons are the exception rather than the rule.
     

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    #22
    Bluelighter Artificial Emotion's Avatar
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    I suspect that things in the US will change and that they will in fact eventually offer substitute treament or drug-assisted detoxification and I in fact believe that this is inevitable. The UK legal system, although very different, is similar enough and things have changed here so that prisoners get methadone, so there is at least a possibility that things will eventually change in the US. I certainly hope it does, since it must be terrible to detox CT from a serious opiate habit - I honestly wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. The suffering, discomfort and pain must be unimaginably painful. Can you imaging coming off a 100+mg daily methadone habit? The suffering would be so intense and would last for so fucking long I just can't believe how bad it must be. I really feel sorry for these prisoners, honestly. No one deserves to be treated like that, it's inhuman and horrific. Unfortunately the general public underestimates the negative effects of opiate withdrawal, especially since in almost all cases it is non-lethal and people just assume that these 'criminals' deserve it as punishment for their crimes. So sad .
     

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    #23
    Bluelighter Kenaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artificial Emotion View Post
    I suspect that things in the US will change and that they will in fact eventually offer substitute treament or drug-assisted detoxification and I in fact believe that this is inevitable. The UK legal system, although very different, is similar enough and things have changed here so that prisoners get methadone, so there is at least a possibility that things will eventually change in the US. I certainly hope it does, since it must be terrible to detox CT from a serious opiate habit - I honestly wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. The suffering, discomfort and pain must be unimaginably painful. Can you imaging coming off a 100+mg daily methadone habit? The suffering would be so intense and would last for so fucking long I just can't believe how bad it must be. I really feel sorry for these prisoners, honestly. No one deserves to be treated like that, it's inhuman and horrific. Unfortunately the general public underestimates the negative effects of opiate withdrawal, especially since in almost all cases it is non-lethal and people just assume that these 'criminals' deserve it as punishment for their crimes. So sad .
    Oh, I agree with you 1,000%. The problem is that I'm not the OP's probation officer; neither am I responsible for MMT policy at any correctional institution. Given the stakes for the OP, I thought it was best that he seek advice from a professional.

    I hope that we're starting to see an end to the "War on Drugs" in the United States. But until we do, I'd urge anyone who may become a Drug War Casualty to seek legal advice at their earliest opportunity.
     

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    #24
    Bluelighter hazmat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artificial Emotion View Post
    I think denying someone their opioid substitute medication can be considered 'cruel and unusual punishment'

    Wikipedia says:
    Yes this may be true, but realize inmates are not subject to the laws, rights and privilages as everyone else. In fact as I have learned inmates have no rights. And while it may be a medical condition most jail won't let you stay on it as bein under the influence for parts of a trial could be grounds for appeal if they are convicted. This is the main reason why inmates cannot get methadone or bupe treatment.
     

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    #25
    Bluelighter Artificial Emotion's Avatar
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    ^ Prisoners have human rights just like anyone else (theoretically).
     

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