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Psychedelics and the occult

drug_mentor

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Jul 12, 2006
Messages
7,538
First off let me just clarify, I am not a satanist, paegan, necromancer or any of that weird shit, I do not believe in it (or any form of religion for that matter) so please do not flame me here.

Well shroom season where I live is just around the corner and I was thinking of new ideas to try while tripping. It occurred to me that it might be quite intense to try some type of weird spell, conjuration, communicating with spirits or something creepy and mysterious like that.

So basically I was curious if anybody else had tried this sort of thing? How did it go? Also I wondered if anyone had any resources on these sorts of practises/rituals, I tried google but only came up with sites describing satanism and what have you but no actual rituals. I am not interested in anything full on involving animal sacrifices or anything sick like that, just want to get a creepy mystical vibe going and see if I can trick myself (or my tripping buddies hehehe) into thinking it has worked.

I know this is kind of a weird idea but surely I can't have been the first to come up with it. lol.
 
This can be very dangerous territory. People who've tried to contact spirits or god and such whilst tripping have sometimes had very bad experiences. I'm not saying that they were successful and were smited, just that it can turn a trip into a really dark and scary place. I'd be worried about what possible revelations when doing this sort of thing could do to your sober mind.
 
If you don't believe in such things, you can do anything that would seem creepy to you and your buddies...
 
Don Luigi I am not too worried about the ramifications, I don't write off the possibility of it turning the trip into a difficult experience, it is obviously a risk I am willing to take. I doubt I will have any long term issues while sober as a result considering my strongly atheist beliefs and my ability to write off drug experiences as just that, a drug experience.
Lysergication, I COULD do anything that would seem creepy to me and my buddies but that isn't the point really. By following a set ritual that has been done before and said to work I feel it is more likely to have the desired effect of feeling like it has worked. If i just go chuck on a dark robe, draw a big pentagram on the floor and chant some nonsense I made up, how am I ever going to reasonably believe that has done something? By following a set ritual there is always that possibility in the back of your mind that psychedelics can play on.
 
Do me a favor, stay away from occult stuff please. That shit is down right creepy and fucked up. I've had friends who experienced these kind of things without drugs and well, it doesn't sound that fun.
 
Don Luigi I am not too worried about the ramifications, I don't write off the possibility of it turning the trip into a difficult experience, it is obviously a risk I am willing to take. I doubt I will have any long term issues while sober as a result considering my strongly atheist beliefs and my ability to write off drug experiences as just that, a drug experience.
Lysergication, I COULD do anything that would seem creepy to me and my buddies but that isn't the point really. By following a set ritual that has been done before and said to work I feel it is more likely to have the desired effect of feeling like it has worked. If i just go chuck on a dark robe, draw a big pentagram on the floor and chant some nonsense I made up, how am I ever going to reasonably believe that has done something? By following a set ritual there is always that possibility in the back of your mind that psychedelics can play on.
Check out the hermetic order of the golden dawn, or related movements. They've got rituals that, frankly, could make one trip out fairly thoroughly if attempted sober.

That said, don't assume your strong atheism will save you from having to deal with the the heebie jeebies in relation to the 'spiritual' side of psychedelia. My atheism is quite firm and yet it is often tested by psychedelics; sometimes quite disconcertingly. :)

Nonetheless, good luck, and have fun.

Just don't start crucifying frogs and shit, or fucking goats etc. :)
 
"Generation Hex", edited by Jason Louv, is a great introductory collection of writings on modern magick, and it includes some essays that specifically address psychedelic magick.

From your examples of "occultism", (satanism, necromancy, etc.), I can see that you really have no idea of what occult practice is beyond what you've learned from movies and TV.

If you really want to be effective and safe with this, you have lots of reading and research to do. It's definitely not something that you should fuck around with. Magick is real.
 
^Do you mind sharing with us why you think magick is real? (I'm not flaming, just genuinely interested.)
 
Generation Hex has some nice ideas about mixing drugs and rituals.

I'd start with some simple stuff. Like charging sigils with N2O. Sigils seem to work like that better than with masturbation. Removes your conciousness out of the way for the sigil to sink into your subconciousness.

Most of the occult stuff seems like a way to make your subconciousness (or some advanced part of the brain that you can't normally control) to obey your orders and give the results you want. The spirits can be part of your mind which you have named and given attributions to make them serve you.

I wouldn't go at all the path of Golden Dawn, Aleister Crowley etc. Way too complicated, slow, cryptic and old fashioned if you are just intrested in experimenting.
 
@Roger&Me:

Well, of course ultimately nothing is real, but I have personally experienced the effects of magickal practice in my life. Magick can be conceived as a diverse set of techniques for manifesting one's Will. There is an exceedingly thin and porous line between magick and shamanism, which is certainly as real (or non-real) as anything else. Hyper-real? Trans-real?

A core component (some would say the main point) of magickal practice is the invocation/contact/alignment with one's Higher Self. But it is applicable in a wide variety of contexts, whenever one needs to tap into god-energy and get some work done.

Of course it is all in my mind, like everything else, but nonetheless magick can provide tools for navigating realities and unfolding spiritual evolution.

Is that a helpful answer or were you looking for something else?
 
John Lillys work seems very occult but the language is scientific.
Programming the human biocomputer with LSD: http://www.futurehi.net/docs/Metaprogramming.html

Ramsey dukes explains magick brilliantly:

1. Ideas, beliefs, principles, assumptions… all these can be tyrants
2. They can also be saviours. Thus one idea triumphs over another by liberating us until it too turns out to be tyrant.
3. ‘Free Will’ is to dodge and duck as ideas do battle around and within us. In vain, while we are the battlefield.
4. It is necessary, therefore, to detach from ideas, beliefs, principles and assumptions. Step back and enjoy the struggle without becoming its victim.
5. This can be difficult and painful. It requires us to abandon our principles (provided that is ‘the one thing that we refuse to do’) and embrace relativity. It requires us to admit that even the most monstrous human beings have probably at times nurtured intentions every bit as benevolent as our own.
6. There is a precedent for this detachment: it was when mankind learnt to detach from Nature. This was progress: the bushman is in this one respect our inferior and we must therefore learn most carefully from them.
7. Detaching from Nature, from Mother Earth, was a phase of growing up. It was necessary for the development of Science.
8. Detaching from ideas is another stage of growing up. It is time to let go of Truth and discover our Selves. It is also necessary for the development of Magic.
9. Goodbye, Mother Earth. Goodbye, Father Sky.
10. A Great Adventure lies ahead.


"Magic is about bringing spirit down into matter, giving our lives meaning and producing concrete results, while religion is more about raising us up towards spirit, explaining why things happen and giving us a sense of purpose. "

RELEVANCE OF MAGIC:

EXAMPLE 1. Centuries of scientific thinking inspired technology, and technology has made our world very complicated. Scientific thinking is not good at handling complexity – the usual scientific approach is to begin by paring down the field of enquiry by eliminating or ignoring extraneous factors – and so now we tend towards magical thinking.

In the 70s I recall how we dealt with a software bug: we ran a few test cases then studied the programme or flow diagram to locate where the fault lay and then re-wrote that bit of the programme. Today’s software is too complicated for that. When my iMac refused to back-up I spent a while Googling ”error code –36” and eventually found a discussion of the same problem. one of the suggestions was ”try unplugging all other firewire devices”. I tried it and it worked. But is this so very different from saying ”for a happy marriage, don’t wear green on your wedding day”? Whereas scientific thinking studies causes, magical thinking studies correlations – as in sympathetic magic. That makes magic much quicker in these complex situations.

So, for example, if tomorrow’s news announces a dramatic statistical correlation between cancer and instant coffee, there would be a big public demand for restrictions on the sale of instant coffee, and many people would defend that in the name of science (”it’s been proven”). ”Do we or don’t we?” the argument rages in the name of science. My solution would be to immediately restrict coffee sales but make it clear that this is a magical act in order to give time for the scientists to work out the cause and effect – eg whether intant coffee causes cancer or whether incipient cancer causes people to want instant coffee.

EXAMPLE 2. Magic does to science what science did to religion – it makes it seem unnecessary or irrelevant. At the mental or cultural level, I see the general evolution of religion leading towards monotheism, and that prepares the way for science – because the problem of strict monotheism is that it actually leaves us with two things: an absolute God and this transient yet lived-in world. Science provides an answer by saying that this world is the ultimate reality. To put it in religious terms, science says that Matter alone is the First Cause or ”God” and there is only One Law and that is Physics – ie that science becomes the real monotheism, and we no longer need religion.

So science advances to explore our very souls and reveals the gulf that exists between subjective and objective reality. This explains away so much of our ideas about spirit – they are subjective delusions whereas science tells us about the objective reality that lies behind them. By doing this, science has now recreated that duality – the world we live in as actually a subjective illusion of the brain, just a reflection of the real material world that lies beyond the gateway of our senses. That prepares the way for magic, because magic says that the actual world we live in, the subjective reality, is what matters and that the objective world it is supposed to reflect is merely a useful hypothesis.

That is putting it rather abstractly – so how does this work in practice? Here is an example. Go back a few centuries and I am a man suffering a bad disease so I ask the experts – the priests – and they say God is punishing me for my sins and I must pray. There is, however, this new-fangled ”natural philosopher” who says I should just swallow 3 of his tablets a day and only drink water that’s been boiled and I’ll soon feel better. I decide to go with this guy because I like what he delivers — even though what the priest says makes clear sense, while this scientist speaks a lot of apparent mumbo jumbo about ”invisible bacteria” or whatever. So religion gets sidelined by science in this case. Fast forward to now and I am suffering aches and pains and I choose to go to a local aromatherapist who makes me feel good, even though it sounds like mumbo jumbo, and even though I read in the papers a few years ago that the real experts have done a big double blind test that concluded there was ”nothing in” aromatherapy. So science gets sidelined by magic, just as it once sidelined religion.

It’s the return of the Platonic idea: that the world we live in is but the shadow of a ”higher” reality. The spiritual folk interpret this as the world of matter is just a shadow of a world of spirit which is the true reality. The scientist interprets it as our subjective reality is just a shadow of an objective world of matter which is the true reality. In both cases the ”man in the street” is expected to consult the experts for the truth, while magic says ”just work on the subjective, that’s what really matters”.

----

This is a simple way to experiment if magick (or your methods) works:

"in most cases, a false positive would mean from a psychological standpoint you had successful done the magic. In most cases, this would be sufficient to qualify as “results”. However, if you are specifically trying to prove magic ( in the belief system that uses the dichotomy between the internal and external world), it is often repetitions of small effects that are more convincing evidence for magic. There is no way to prove magic in this sense, but we can get evidence. If someone trains with magic for a some time, this exercise will make sense. Flip a coin 1000 times and at each coin toss, try to manipulate through whatever magical means you choose, the result. The experimenter should be proficient at the technique they are trying, and they should have confidence in the technique. Likewise, they should have confidence that magic works. Record each coin toss. If the overall pattern of results is greater then one standard deviation from the mean (either direction), repeat the exercise with a new coin. If both results are one standard deviation from the mean or more in the same direction, this is a pretty good signal that something is happening. Either the subconscious mind is interfering with your magic in some way ( but is still good evidence that something is going on), or that person was able to influence the outcome. Likewise, if other people watch the experiment, this would bias the outcome ( since they have expectations that could influence the outcome as well). Its relatively impossible to prove magick per se, but its possible to get evidence of this sort."
-Andrieh Vitimus
 
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^ lol, I think you're missing something... 8)

Witchcraft, Magick, Shamanism - explore and learn reverently!!
 
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THIS^^

Fuck I wish I would have put some sunn on last time I tripped! I listened to some Sleep and Electric Wizard on my last trip for the first time whilst tripping, omfg good shit. Sunn would be a bit too much I think, I could see some epic thought loops ahappenin'.

Get the new album, Domkirke, recording in norweigan cathedral of same name...utterly brilliant- Atiila Csihair on vocals, massive reverbs pounding away...excellent....

I saw Sunn in Aus a year or so ago, thouigh they played with Striborg (shuitarse black metaller from Tasmania) which ruined it a bit, but damn it was so loud!!! No discernible melodies of course, but the use of capes and smoke was fucking brilliant. Didn't trip, but smoked a lot....

I find drone/doom to be pretty good for tripping, not so much Electric Wizard style occulty stuff, but more the sludgey dopesmokeriness of Sleep, Kyuss, Earth etc.

Drrrrrrrrrrrrrooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
 
Do me a favor, stay away from occult stuff please. That shit is down right creepy and fucked up. I've had friends who experienced these kind of things without drugs and well, it doesn't sound that fun.

Doesn'tneed to be fun....just something worth experiencing. I find myselfm inadvertently "channelling" when tripping, though its more like deep resonant throat singing and summoning of elven deities....Tripping and fun and the occult probably don't mix, but for sure, something of which a degree of power can be tapped into with which. :)
 
...see if I can trick myself (or my tripping buddies hehehe) into thinking it has worked.

8o I'd hate to be one of your buddies. :)

do what you want to yourself, but I would think this is pretty low to try and freak out your mates whilst fucked up - and it could lead to some serious issues.
 
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